Capt. Robert Semrau Charged With Murder in Afghanistan

[SeanNewman]

Another point:  To find these (likely) buried rounds, they would have either had to use a metal detector of sifted through all the sand in some sort of massive excavation.

This insurgent had just been hit with a burst of fragmenting Apache 30mm which would have completely blanketed the area with kilograms upon kilograms of metal splinters. 

During courses I have been involved with sweeps for dropped magazines where someone realized they had dropped it in the last 100m 15 minutes ago and we were unable to find it. 

If they were not buried as per my assumption, we're being told that several months later (after the rain started falling in December) a couple specific rounds and casings were found on the surface.

Mmmmmkay.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

From a defence point of view, it would be interesting to know how many fragments of assorted rounds they sifted through to find the ones they presented to the court.  Without a postive ID, evidence of spent ammo in a battlefield must be circumstantial evidence of the weakest type.  Another question would be whether a possible inability to match the casings to the rifle was a factor of time or simply a mismatch.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Really, unless there is some blood on the slugs the Captain can say "I put the rounds in the dirt beside him.  I wanted to seem like a bad ass, hardcore killah and made up the story so the lads would go oooo/aaaahhh".  Guilty of a weak personality, but not murder.  And that is if they can match them to his weapon. 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

And now this surfaces from CBC News.....

May 21, 2010 News
Video released Friday from the court martial of Capt. Robert Semrau shows grainy footage of a wounded insurgent in the wake of a firefight in Afghanistan

Court Martial Video

 

[bdave]

Actually, the casings can be matched very conclusively to the weapon that fired them.  Under a microscope, the tool markings (scratches) on the casing where the extractor hooked it, where the ejector kicked it and how the firing pin made it's mark on the primer can all be linked up with the specific weapon like a finger print. 

I have read that this is actually somewhat of a myth.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I have read that this is actually somewhat of a myth.

References?

 

[mariomike]

"Breech markings:
Marks on the cartridge case can be matched to marks in the chamber and breech. For a number of reasons, Cartridge cases are often easier to identify than bullets. First, the parts of a firearm that produce marks on cartridge cases are less subject to long-term wear, and second, bullets are often severely deformed on impact, destroying much of the markings they acquire.":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_fingerprinting#Breech_markings

"Cartridge Case Identification:
Like bullets, cartridge cases can be identified as having been fired by a specific firearm.  As soon as cartridges are loaded into a firearm the potential for the transfer of unique tool marks exists.  However, the cartridge does not have to be fired for these marks to be transferred.  Simply loading a cartridge into a firearm can cause unique identifiable marks that can be later identified.":
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_CCID.htm

"Impressed Action Marks:
Impressed action marks, with a few exceptions, are produced when a cartridge case is fired in a firearm.  The two most common impressed action marks are firing pin impressions and breech marks.  As mentioned at the end of the Striated Action Marks page, ejector marks can also be in the form of an impressed action mark.":
http://firearmsid.com/A_CCIDImpres.htm

"Striated Action Marks:
Striated action marks are common to cartridge cases that have passed through the action of an auto loading or repeating firearm.  Striated action marks can be produced on cartridge cases by contact with a number of different areas within the firearm.  Some of the more common striated action marks include chamber marks; shear marks, firing pin drag marks, extractor marks, and ejector marks.":
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_CCIDStria.htm

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I have read that this is actually somewhat of a myth.

Well don't tell the entire firearms department at the Center of Forensic Sciences.  You'll ruin their mythological efforts. 

 

[jollyjacktar]

Well don't tell the entire firearms department at the Center of Forensic Sciences.  You'll ruin their mythological efforts.

:cheers:  Damn, everything they taught me in college and at CFSIS is BS.

 

[Loachman]

Stumbled across while researching something else:

http://www.search.com/reference/Chindits

Masters's force established Blackpool on May 8 and were almost immediately engaged in fierce fighting. Whereas White City had been deep in the Japanese rear, its defenders had had plenty of time to prepare their defences and its attackers had been a mixed bag of detachments from several formations, Blackpool was close to the Japanese northern front, and was attacked by two regiments from the Japanese 53rd Division, with heavy artillery support. Because the monsoon had broken and heavy rain made movement in the jungle very difficult, neither Calvert nor Brodie's British 14th Infantry Brigade could help Masters. Finally, Masters had to abandon Blackpool on May 24, because the men were too exhausted after 17 days of continual combat. 19 Allied soldiers, who were so badly injured as to be beyond hope of recovery and could not be moved, were shot by the medical orderlies.

 

[Jarnhamar]

After reading more about this story I've changed my mind.  I hope the Captain is cleared of any wrong doing.

If I was in the dying Talibans shoes and had no hope of rescue or recovering I would hope that my enemy respected me enough to put me out of my misery and not leave me to suffer.

 

[Old Sweat]

Stumbled across while researching something else:

http://www.search.com/reference/Chindits

In his wartime memoir, The Road Past Mandalay, Masters wrote that he personally shot the wounded, rather than order subordinates to murder them. Whooa. I misspoke. After googling The Road Past Mandalay, I came across several reviews which mention him ordering his troops to kill the wounded. My apologies to Loachman.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Shitty to say, but it was indeed a kindness to the wounded to let them off easily.  The Japanese would have used them for bayonet practice as they did in Hong Kong.

 

[mariomike]

The Japanese would have used them for bayonet practice as they did in Hong Kong.

Or worse:
"In Fukuoka, a truck drove up to Army headquarters, collected B-29 crewmen who had been shot down over Japan, and drove them to a lonely field, where, one by one, a lieutenant chopped off their heads with his sword.
They were not the first to die in this manner. The Japanese had beheaded dozens of airmen and used others for bayonet and archery practice. They'd locked them in animal cages and tied them to posts for passersby to torment. They'd burned them alive, buried them alive, dissected them alive, and cooked and eaten their body parts."
"The Last Raid" by Dan Ford.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B001AQI7XU/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=133140011&s=digital-text

 

[Michael OLeary]

There is, however, a difference between killing badly wounded soldiers you cannot care for or transport and who you have clear evidence that they will be killed by the approaching enemy if left behind (and that those soldiers knew this would likely be their fate in such a situation) and allegedly shooting a wounded man you are supposed to be the one trying to arrange medical for, regardless of the possible response time or outcome of that care.

 

[SeanNewman]

If I was in the dying Talibans shoes ...

That's the crux of the decision here, though.  A lot of people on this board (and perhaps Rob himself) have stated what they would wish to have happen to them if they were bleeding out in agony and obviously past saving that they would want a quick death.

However, there is no official rule or law that puts that mindset in writing, which means that there is no legal basis for that decision.

I might love speeding and have no problem if everyone else on the highway were doing 200 km/h, but me feeling that way does not change that there is a law against it.

 

[ballz]

That's the crux of the decision here, though.  A lot of people on this board (and perhaps Rob himself) have stated what they would wish to have happen to them if they were bleeding out in agony and obviously past saving that they would want a quick death.

However, there is no official rule or law that puts that mindset in writing, which means that there is no legal basis for that decision.

I might love speeding and have no problem if everyone else on the highway were doing 200 km/h, but me feeling that way does not change that there is a law against it.

But, if you were in favour of having no speed limits, you would probably hope that somebody getting charged with a speeding ticket gets off with it, whether by technicality, lack of evidence, what have you, no?

That is all Apollo Diomedes is saying, and I am in the same boat. While I realize by the letter of the law a mercy-kill is murder, I think the law is wrong, so I would prefer to see somebody get an acquittal on a technicality, lack of evidence, or any other random reason, than to be thrown in jail for something I believe was just (whether the written law says it was just or not).

And this is all if he even DID kill anybody, mercifully or not... So far the evidence against him seems to be lacking and weak at best.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Rapists, child molesters, cold blooded murders get off ALL the time on stupid little technicalities. Our law continues to fail us when we see repeat sex offenders get out of jail earlier for "good behavior" then run off and rape and murder a kid.
Or a repeat drunk driver get let out of jail somehow get their license back then wipe out a family. (my wifes father)

"The law isn't perfect but it's what we got"

I myself will not loose sleep if this guy "beats the system".

 

[Rifleman62]

He would more than likely "beat the system" in several aspects including degree of guilt/sentencing in civil court, but he is in a military court, and the opposition political parties and the media will not stand for it. Another  chance to beat up SH. That's reality.

 

[GAP]

Soldier’s murder trial moves to Afghanistan
By Andrew Duffy , Ottawa Citizen May 30, 2010
Article Link

The second-degree murder trial of a Canadian soldier will move to the scene of the alleged crime — Afghanistan — next month.

Testimony is scheduled to resume at Kandahar Airfield, where Afghan soldiers and interpreters are to give evidence about the events of Oct. 19, 2008.

Military prosecutors contend that, during an Afghan-led military operation that day in Helmand Province, Capt. Robert Semrau, 36, of Canadian Forces Base Petawawa in Ontario fired two tracer rounds into the chest of a severely wounded, disarmed Taliban insurgent.

Semrau faces four charges, including second-degree murder, in connection with what has been described as a battlefield mercy killing. Semrau has pleaded not guilty to all counts.

His general court martial, which began two months ago, has been marked by repeated delays as lawyers argue over how the unusual case should proceed.

Military prosecutors recently concluded the “Canadian” portion of their case.

The court martial will now go into hiatus as the Office of the Chief Military Judge co-ordinates the court’s move to Afghanistan.

Since the judge, court reporter, prosecutors, defence lawyers and five-member jury are military personnel, they must all be qualified to perform first aid, fire a C-8 rifle and respond to a chemical or biological attack in order to travel to Kandahar Airfield.

In Afghanistan, the court martial is expected to hear from an Afghan interpreter, known as Max, who was with Semrau, and his fire team partner, Cpl. Steven Fournier, on the day of the alleged shooting.
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