Canadian Sea King crashes off Denmark

[Scoobie Newbie]

ah that will buff right out.

 

[Armymatters]

From the looks of that airframe, it looks like the bird maybe a total loss... oh well.

 

[aesop081]

From the looks of that airframe, it looks like the bird maybe a total loss... oh well.

Is that your expert opinion ?

 

[ChopperHead]

alittle spit and polish and it'll be good as new. or at least as good as was 

 

[Inch]

From the looks of that airframe, it looks like the bird maybe a total loss... oh well.

Wow, I was actually going to say it didn't look that bad.

 

[aesop081]

Wow, I was actually going to say it didin't look that bad.

i'm gonna go with armymatters on this one.  What do you know anyways  ;D

 

[Pearson]

alittle spit and polish and it'll be good as new. or at least as good as was 

don't forget the duct tape...never foget the duct tape

 

[big bad john]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/486142.html

Replacement chopper loaded onto ship



A Canadian Navy helicopter meant to replace a chopper that crashed off Denmark earlier this month was due to leave Halifax late Thursday.

The Sea King was loaded on board the freighter Roxanne which is headed for Malaga, Spain, to meet up with HMCS Athabaskan in about two weeks.

The new Sea King replaces one that crashed suddenly into the sea off Denmark while practising night landings.

It is needed to help the ship complete current NATO exercises.

All five crewmen escaped when the helicopter flipped upside down.

A spokesman for 12 Wing Shearwater said sending the replacement chopper would not cause any major disruptions to domestic operations.

 

[sneak and peek soldier]

Who wants to bet that the sea king that they sent won't work once it gets there....Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if that crashed to (even though i hope it doesn't for the safety for our guys) but like honestly they're in there 30's for god sakes....just go without the chopper.

 

[Armymatters]

Who wants to bet that the sea king that they sent won't work once it gets there....Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if that crashed to (even though i hope it doesn't for the safety for our guys) but like honestly they're in there 30's for god sakes....just go without the chopper.

Heck no.

Athabaskan's job requires a helicopter, otherwise, she won't be able to do her job as NATO standing task force leader. Our Sea Kings are fairly safe, accidents can and will happen. When they happen, you find out why and learn, then move on.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

sneak and peek soldier your way off the mark and apparently haven't read any of the posts by the actual Sea King pilots.

 

[big bad john]

Who wants to bet that the sea king that they sent won't work once it gets there....Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if that crashed to (even though i hope it doesn't for the safety for our guys) but like honestly they're in there 30's for god sakes....just go without the chopper.

Back in your lane.

 

[darmil]

They are not safe, time for a new helo.Stop writing mindless banter.

 

[aesop081]

They are not safe, time for a new helo.Stop writing mindless banter.

i think this applies to you as well MikeH :

Back in your lane.

 

[Bograt]

Based on my experience, (20 minutes of stick time) the Sea King is a good platform. It is made so by the professionalism of its aircrew and ground crew. Regardless, there is an inherent risk that can never be mitigated to zero.

Accidents happen occasionally. Tutors, Harvards, Hawks, Hornets, Griffons, have all been lost within the last 3 years. Some occured with tragic results.

The new airframe will be a giant leap in capabilities for MH. But I am sure that they are going to have their incidents. Why? Well, imagine landing one on the back of a moving ship, at night, in miserable wx, with 15 feet separating the tips of your rotor from the hangar, and essentially dropping your 18K pound aircraft 2 feet onto the deck. Could someone tell me which aircraft would accomplish this with zero risk?

Sign me up.

I am proud to have a Sea King Patch on my flight suit. 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Well said Bograt. Time for a few people to stay in their own lanes methinks. Right army matters and sneak and peek soldier?

 

[Inch]

Flight Safety aircraft occurrence summary is out. Preliminary findings are that there was no mechanical failure and the investigation is shifting to human factors and aircraft life support equipment.

Link to Aircraft Occurrence Summary: http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/dfs/docs/Fti/CH12438_e.asp

From Canoe: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/02/02/1423469-cp.html

Sea King crew under scrutiny

By ALISON AULD
 
HALIFAX (CP) - Investigators looking into the crash of a Sea King helicopter off Denmark have found that the aircraft had no mechanical problems, prompting them to examine whether the crew was adequately trained and if they were flying too low.

A preliminary report into the crash states that officials are looking at several human factors that may have caused the helicopter to go down suddenly in the ocean last month as it came in for a landing on HMCS Athabaskan.

That has led one expert to speculate that the crew didn't know they were flying so close to the water.

"I think we can tell from this that the pilot obviously was not aware that he was as low as he was until the moment he hit the water," Larry McWha, a retired Sea King pilot, said Tuesday.

"Why he was not aware we cannot tell . . . They look like they're pointing at the fact that he was out of practice."

The document, known as an Aircraft Occurrence Summary, states that officials are focusing on "organizational issues" such as how often crews are trained on certain procedures like night landings and escaping from a ditched Sea King.

Aviation analysts have said before that Sea King crews don't get enough training because the aging aircraft have to undergo so much maintenance that they're often unavailable.

Maj. Paul Dittmann, who is leading the investigation and will write the final report, said that might be a factor in this accident and is being examined.

"It's no secret that the Sea King maintenance has been an ongoing issue," he said in an interview. "That's why we're looking at what impact, if any, proficiency has had, what hit it may or may not have taken."

Dittmann said all of the five crew were current when it came to qualifications for all of the skills required on the mission. They all would have undergone additional training on night landings before setting off for the six-month NATO deployment.

He would not reveal details of what investigators believe caused the Sea King to go down as it came in for a second attempt on the destroyer about 50 kilometres off the eastern coast of Denmark.

The summary describes a frightening sequence of events as the crew overshot the first landing after being told the flight deck wasn't ready to receive them on what was said to be a pitch black, but calm night.

They came in for a second attempt and when they were about 30 metres from the ship's port side, decelerating and coming into a hover, the helicopter's rear fuselage and tail rotor hit the water.

"The helicopter pitched forward, became airborne again and began to yaw right," according to the one-page report.

Dittmann said the crew didn't realize the situation was as dire as it was and tried to take off again from the water, only to go smashing down like a "90-degree turn on a rollercoaster. It would have happened with force and violence."

The Sea King went down and rolled over, filling with one-degree water immediately. All of the crew managed to get out with only minor injuries, but some struggled with their breathing systems and had quickly drained them of air.

McWha said landing at night on a ship is incredibly difficult because it's easy to lose sight of the horizon, leading possibly to a loss of situational awareness if crew aren't closely watching their instruments.

"You're flying inside an inkwell," he said. "Unless it was for your instruments, you don't know where the horizon is because everything is uniformly black."

Some of the crew returned to Halifax following the crash to receive supplementary training on getting out of a Sea King that goes down in water.

Dittmann said the investigation has so far produced several recommendations that have been passed onto the squadron at Shearwater outside Halifax. He wouldn't reveal what they were, adding that the team is still awaiting several reports on such things as how the life support equipment functioned and what the crew said in interviews.

He added that officials are also considering whether night vision goggles would have aided the crew.

 

[Good2Golf]

....He [Maj Paul Dittmann] added that officials are also considering whether night vision goggles would have aided the crew.

I know some guys in the SK community have tried to get NVG's brought in for quite some time...no success to date, but maybe this will change things?

FWIW, with "a few" NVG hours under my belt, including water insertion/extraction ops, I can't for the life of me wonder why anyone would want to fly over deep blue water in the middle of the night WITHOUT NVGs! 

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Strike]

FWIW, with "a few" NVG hours under my belt, including water insertion/extraction ops, I can't for the life of me wonder why anyone would want to fly over deep blue water in the middle of the night WITHOUT NVGs!

Duey,

It's quite simple.  They would rather not know how much deep black nothing there is below them.  ;D

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

So if it is pilot error, what would that mean for the pilot?