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Canada's tanks

An excellent post

The line above got me thinking a little. The US structure differs from ours. For example in an ABCT artillery battalion there is virtually no echelon at the battery (except extra ammo vehicles) and very little at the battalion level. CSS comes from the designated Forward Support Company of the Brigade Support Battalion. I can see how it can work but have a harder time when I look at the structure for a Combined Arms Battalion.

Like the artillery, Armor and Rifle companies have virtually no tail and the battalion's is quite light as well. Again it's the BSB's designated Forward Support company that holds the CSS. My reading of ATP 4-90 (The BSB) indicates that an FSC can (but doesn't have to) break its distribution platoon into squads to support the line companies but that strikes me as an inadequate structure as there are but three squads which are insufficient for building both company A1/A2 and battalion A2 echelons.

I think that the BSB structure in general, in putting all of the CSS personnel and equipment in the brigade, under one battalion commander ought to be highly efficient and allow for maximum flexibility while on the other hand weakening the bond between a unit and its organic CSS. Habitual attachments can solve some of that.

From your experience with the US, Does the overall BSB structure make it actually more efficient in general than our HQ/admin/service support companies and Bde Svc Bn? And does the US FSC function as robustly as our own HQ/admin/svc sp companies at the unit level?

:unsure:
I was going through Coy to Bde level instruction as the US Army was transitioning to the new structures. I was told it initially came from Congress ordering the army to make Divisions smaller - so the service battalions were carved out and placed in formations that were not in the division. The concept has clearly worked, though, and been refined since.

I think that the US method is more efficient, and at their scale efficiencies are important. There is less CSS stuff ambling around well-forward with less transfers of stores. I think our robust tank squadron echelons give us more resilience, but perhaps it is less efficient as a system. The tank sqn OC always has a DOS riding around in the A1 echelon just behind him with another, in theory, in his A2 echelon. It also means we have two somewhat vulnerable CSS elements always well forward. In the US method, on the other hand, the presence of squishy CSS stuff forward is more episodic. I am not saying we should go to their system! Our echelons have served us very well when they have existed.

At the risk of a complete thread derail, when we were conducting mobile operations in summer 2006 I figure we used the US Forward Support Company LOGPAC method with some adaptations (without calling it that). NSE assets occasionally moved with the companies, but they were not going back to get replenished. They were simply extending the endurance of the element. If the time away required it (4DR), then an NSE element came forward to meet the sub-unit somewhere in space and transfer commodities, usually guided out by BG assets.
 
One reason it makes sense to use our own people in the A1 ech is injuries. If a crew comes through a replen with an injured crewman, the SSM can use one of his echelon members to switch out with the injured crew member because they are trained crewmen. They can't do that with CSS truck drivers.
 
One reason it makes sense to use our own people in the A1 ech is injuries. If a crew comes through a replen with an injured crewman, the SSM can use one of his echelon members to switch out with the injured crew member because they are trained crewmen. They can't do that with CSS truck drivers.
Our infantry stores non gender specific soldiers and transport soldiers are all infantry. One of the reasons is that you know the guy you're dealing with, probably for a number of years.
 
Can you explain the difference between a Military Mac truck and a civilian Mack truck.
In addition to answers you’ve already been given, the civilian truck will have a tier 4 engine while the military truck will be able burn aircraft fuel.
 
In addition to answers you’ve already been given, the civilian truck will have a tier 4 engine while the military truck will be able burn aircraft fuel.
From what inhave read the new MSVS is a tier 4 engine. I wonder if it can use lsd diesel, not ULSD. Curious you mentioned the fuel, is a good question to ponder
 

a little comparison on the prospective future of the K2 in Europe and a tidbit on metal fatigue and refurbishing to the A7 standard

"The Panzergrenadier officer, however, said that future Leopard 2A7s will likely remain brand-new production, not remanufactured:

“For the new 2A7s, it’s no longer viable from the economical point of view…the strain on the metal after enough years gets excessive, just like for aircraft. The torsion bars are digging into the hull, the steel is getting weaker and weaker. That’s why nobody is really upgrading any A4s to the A7s. Same for 2A6 hulls, because those are based on the A4s.”
 

a little comparison on the prospective future of the K2 in Europe and a tidbit on metal fatigue and refurbishing to the A7 standard

"The Panzergrenadier officer, however, said that future Leopard 2A7s will likely remain brand-new production, not remanufactured:

“For the new 2A7s, it’s no longer viable from the economical point of view…the strain on the metal after enough years gets excessive, just like for aircraft. The torsion bars are digging into the hull, the steel is getting weaker and weaker. That’s why nobody is really upgrading any A4s to the A7s. Same for 2A6 hulls, because those are based on the A4s.”
Unless your Canada in which case it will be chosen because it's"cheaper"at least it can be sold that way.
 

a little comparison on the prospective future of the K2 in Europe and a tidbit on metal fatigue and refurbishing to the A7 standard

"The Panzergrenadier officer, however, said that future Leopard 2A7s will likely remain brand-new production, not remanufactured:

“For the new 2A7s, it’s no longer viable from the economical point of view…the strain on the metal after enough years gets excessive, just like for aircraft. The torsion bars are digging into the hull, the steel is getting weaker and weaker. That’s why nobody is really upgrading any A4s to the A7s. Same for 2A6 hulls, because those are based on the A4s.”
Metal fatigue is a real thing and it would be a folly to try to rebuild.
 

a little comparison on the prospective future of the K2 in Europe and a tidbit on metal fatigue and refurbishing to the A7 standard

"The Panzergrenadier officer, however, said that future Leopard 2A7s will likely remain brand-new production, not remanufactured:

“For the new 2A7s, it’s no longer viable from the economical point of view…the strain on the metal after enough years gets excessive, just like for aircraft. The torsion bars are digging into the hull, the steel is getting weaker and weaker. That’s why nobody is really upgrading any A4s to the A7s. Same for 2A6 hulls, because those are based on the A4s.”
On February 10, 2023, the Greek government approved the upgrade of 123 Leopard 2A4 tanks of the Hellenic army to the 2A7 version.
 

Fatal Flaw at the Heart of National Defence​


First order of business - after the Minister's pension has been decided (along with his Deputy and JAG)

And before discussing mundane stuff like regulations....

Disposing of surplus stuff - like tanks, guns, M113s and trucks.....

National Defence Act (R.S.C., 1985, c. N-5)​

Act current to 2023-03-20 and last amended on 2022-06-20. Previous Versions

PART I​

Department of National Defence​

Establishment of the Department​

Minister​

Deputy Minister​

Judge Advocate General​


Materiel

Marginal note:

Delivery of materiel for sale or disposal

11
The Governor in Council may authorize the Minister to deliver to any department or agency of the Government of Canada, for sale or disposal to any countries or international welfare organizations and on any terms that the Governor in Council may determine, any materiel that has not been declared surplus and is not immediately required for the use of the Canadian Forces or for any other purpose under this Act.

  • R.S., 1985, c. N-5, s. 11
  • 1998, c. 35, s. 3

Regulations​


Actually, looking at that I could make an a rgument for the Militia as a separate "department or agency of the Government of Canada"

If the Militia were separate the CAF could "sell" its "slightly used" kit to the Militia at 70 cents on the dollar and buy new kit for its own use.

The Militia gets kit for both civil and military emergency preparedness. The Militia would need to be suitably funded for full time maintenance staff.
 
I honestly believe that no one was more relieved/ delighted by Conrad Black's disgrace then NDHQ.
Black had been an Honorary Colonel for an reserve armoured regiment at one point suggested (threatened?) to purchasing real armoured vehicles for them .
I often wonder what they (NDHQ) would have done if he carried through with it.
I suspect it would be equal parts funnier than hell and pathetically sad.
 
I honestly believe that no one was more relieved/ delighted by Conrad Black's disgrace then NDHQ.
Black had been an Honorary Colonel for an reserve armoured regiment at one point suggested (threatened?) to purchasing real armoured vehicles for them .
I often wonder what they (NDHQ) would have done if he carried through with it.
I suspect it would be equal parts funnier than hell and pathetically sad.
Sounds like a previous Honorary Colonel, wasn't it McNaughton that paid for the Militia Sherman fleet upkeep from his own pocket?

Maybe we need some uber rich HC for the Artillery and they can buy some artillery guns for the units?
 
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