Canada Honours its Soldiers
- Thread starter Gunner
- Start date
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Having attended, I‘ll make a comment or two:
1) Too many speeches by the "important" people turned this into another political event to get ones name in the news. The GG, PM, MND, CDS etc should have stayed at home. The only speeches we should have heard were the eulogies. These were the most poignant moments for me; their friends sharing their memories with us all.
2) Applauding the families of the deceased when they entered?! While I believe it was with the best intentions I personally found it rather morbid.
3) Watching the families of the deceased, and the wounded with their families, enter was heart wrenching. If it were only possible to take away the pain, even for a moment.
4) While the tribute and out pouring of support from the community was immense, I have to stop and wonder about all the others who have been killed in the past and simply arrived home with the country going on about its business. Mark Isfelds father put it best when he said to the effect "My son‘s death was a 15 second sound bite".
5) What can possibly be done to top this tribute when pers are killed engaging the enemy? Also, is this now the standard to be held for all those who are killed whilst on a mission, even if by an accident which this was?
6) To all who participated, well done. You did us all proud.
May they rest in peace and may they never be forgotten.
1) Too many speeches by the "important" people turned this into another political event to get ones name in the news. The GG, PM, MND, CDS etc should have stayed at home. The only speeches we should have heard were the eulogies. These were the most poignant moments for me; their friends sharing their memories with us all.
2) Applauding the families of the deceased when they entered?! While I believe it was with the best intentions I personally found it rather morbid.
3) Watching the families of the deceased, and the wounded with their families, enter was heart wrenching. If it were only possible to take away the pain, even for a moment.
4) While the tribute and out pouring of support from the community was immense, I have to stop and wonder about all the others who have been killed in the past and simply arrived home with the country going on about its business. Mark Isfelds father put it best when he said to the effect "My son‘s death was a 15 second sound bite".
5) What can possibly be done to top this tribute when pers are killed engaging the enemy? Also, is this now the standard to be held for all those who are killed whilst on a mission, even if by an accident which this was?
6) To all who participated, well done. You did us all proud.
May they rest in peace and may they never be forgotten.
H
Harry
Guest
de Chastelain did a good Regimental presentation, regardless of the other POLITICAL presentations, good turn out. The clapping, it happened, mixed feelings, but I hope the families left there feeling their loss was not in vain.
Of all the poignant things, and not to discredit or add insult in light of this ceremony, I wonder if J.C. and the Grits got a little squeamish hearing the term AIRBORNE and seeing Maroon Berets. Beware the seeds you sow, for one day you have to reap the harvest.
The PPCLI honoured their fallen comrades well and in doing so demonstrated the professionalism of our military. Is this the standard? Each Regiment and unit has its own heritage, may this be the impetus to properly honour our fallen when they come home.
Lest We Forget
Of all the poignant things, and not to discredit or add insult in light of this ceremony, I wonder if J.C. and the Grits got a little squeamish hearing the term AIRBORNE and seeing Maroon Berets. Beware the seeds you sow, for one day you have to reap the harvest.
The PPCLI honoured their fallen comrades well and in doing so demonstrated the professionalism of our military. Is this the standard? Each Regiment and unit has its own heritage, may this be the impetus to properly honour our fallen when they come home.
Lest We Forget
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 210
Good posting, Garb811. Having experienced too many ‘accidental‘ deaths in the past, I have found most ceremonies to be simple yet touching. I too am concerned that this will set a standard of overgrief that will degrade the value of any sacrifice.
Recall that in WW1 our average fatal casualty rate was almost 50 per day. With instant communications and intense media exposure could we do that today? Does this create a ‘grief gap‘ that will make us unable to defend ourselves against less technical countries? If so, than we had best invest money and mirror the heavy R&D the US puts into its forces, making capital and not labour intensive.
Recall that in WW1 our average fatal casualty rate was almost 50 per day. With instant communications and intense media exposure could we do that today? Does this create a ‘grief gap‘ that will make us unable to defend ourselves against less technical countries? If so, than we had best invest money and mirror the heavy R&D the US puts into its forces, making capital and not labour intensive.
H
Harry
Guest
Well,
Open the gates and unleash the wrath.
What happened has been dealt with, now we wait for the report. Someone else put the corporate memory model forward. Naturally this was milked for all it’s political worth, and if anyone noticed, the national media outlets and a lot of local outlets dedicated a lot of time and resources in the past ten days (they did an exemplary job for the most part). Incidentally, today was not carried on the franco CBC or other franco channels that I am aware of.
So the cynics will say, whoopee, where was everyone before, and the fatalists will say, nothing will change and the optimist will hope that this will be the rebirth of public interest in the CF.
Historically Canadians have always supported the CF, but as with everything else in our society, that support borders on apathy and generalized disinterest in most things that do not readily and directly affect them.
Let’s not dwell on what ifs. This was an eye opener for a lot of people, but I hasten to put forward that we must move ahead. Tomorrow Canadians in general will go back to work and within several months it will be a lost memory.
If we ever find ourselves in a position were there are an endless stream of body bags coming home, I think we would see an Official response with an Official Protocol being implemented real quick.
On the other hand, if we follow the traditions of our past as a Commonwealth Nation, we would normally inter our war dead near the battlefield where they died.
IMHO before the hounds descend upon this topic, take a reasoned approach. We are nothing like the Americans; we have a Commonwealth heritage. The Americans have seen countless bodies coming home from many a war; they have a National Cemetery with all the trappings of pomp and ritual. In the recent past with peacekeeping operations, we have brought home our dead, however, historically the dead of past wars did not. Within the corporate memory mindset, no one has ever seen anything like this.
Some have advocated the cause for a National Cemetery, pro’s and con’s. The pro would be a place for national recognition and serve as a visible tribute to service and sacrifice. If we intern our war dead abroad, then why have one. I would think that in most cases the families would prefer to bury their dead in their communities, not some far off cemetery in the Nations Capitol. In the event of large numbers, the official response might just be such a thing, it is a what if.
Lots of thoughts, but I hardly feel the necessity to beat this thing to death. There are a lot of hurt feelings and an overriding sense of neglect within the CF from the past ten years, I don’t think we have rounded the corner yet. Whether you agree or disagree with the events of the past ten days, the Regiment did what was expected, they closed ranks and have taken care of their own. That’s what matters.
UBIQUE
Open the gates and unleash the wrath.
What happened has been dealt with, now we wait for the report. Someone else put the corporate memory model forward. Naturally this was milked for all it’s political worth, and if anyone noticed, the national media outlets and a lot of local outlets dedicated a lot of time and resources in the past ten days (they did an exemplary job for the most part). Incidentally, today was not carried on the franco CBC or other franco channels that I am aware of.
So the cynics will say, whoopee, where was everyone before, and the fatalists will say, nothing will change and the optimist will hope that this will be the rebirth of public interest in the CF.
Historically Canadians have always supported the CF, but as with everything else in our society, that support borders on apathy and generalized disinterest in most things that do not readily and directly affect them.
Let’s not dwell on what ifs. This was an eye opener for a lot of people, but I hasten to put forward that we must move ahead. Tomorrow Canadians in general will go back to work and within several months it will be a lost memory.
If we ever find ourselves in a position were there are an endless stream of body bags coming home, I think we would see an Official response with an Official Protocol being implemented real quick.
On the other hand, if we follow the traditions of our past as a Commonwealth Nation, we would normally inter our war dead near the battlefield where they died.
IMHO before the hounds descend upon this topic, take a reasoned approach. We are nothing like the Americans; we have a Commonwealth heritage. The Americans have seen countless bodies coming home from many a war; they have a National Cemetery with all the trappings of pomp and ritual. In the recent past with peacekeeping operations, we have brought home our dead, however, historically the dead of past wars did not. Within the corporate memory mindset, no one has ever seen anything like this.
Some have advocated the cause for a National Cemetery, pro’s and con’s. The pro would be a place for national recognition and serve as a visible tribute to service and sacrifice. If we intern our war dead abroad, then why have one. I would think that in most cases the families would prefer to bury their dead in their communities, not some far off cemetery in the Nations Capitol. In the event of large numbers, the official response might just be such a thing, it is a what if.
Lots of thoughts, but I hardly feel the necessity to beat this thing to death. There are a lot of hurt feelings and an overriding sense of neglect within the CF from the past ten years, I don’t think we have rounded the corner yet. Whether you agree or disagree with the events of the past ten days, the Regiment did what was expected, they closed ranks and have taken care of their own. That’s what matters.
UBIQUE
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
Actually, it was on RDI (Reseau De l‘Information, depending on SRC) Unfortunately, as there is a strike at SRC (franco CBC) there was only a translation of the english parts, instead of the comments like on CBC and such.
What does french tv airing the memorial, or not, have to do with the events themselves? Are you saying french people care less about what happened? ...Just wondering
-Fred
H
Harry
Guest
No, just a measure of the corporate memory model in action. Yesterday according to what I have learned, this was literally broadcast from coast to coast on the national stations and pretty much all the affiliates.
I had a couple of e-mails from different locations in Quebec asking how it went, apparently in their areas there was a race shown. So I am left to surmise coverage in la belle province was not as global as you purport.
Has nothing to do with what I think.
UBIQUE
I had a couple of e-mails from different locations in Quebec asking how it went, apparently in their areas there was a race shown. So I am left to surmise coverage in la belle province was not as global as you purport.
Has nothing to do with what I think.
UBIQUE
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Makes me feel sorry for the Vietnam vets who are watching all this.
We had some Vietnam vets at ANZAC day on the 25th - they feel more at home there than at Rememberance Day since they fought with the Aussies in Indochina. I got to say Welcome Home to one of them, which was the highlight of the day for me.
We had some Vietnam vets at ANZAC day on the 25th - they feel more at home there than at Rememberance Day since they fought with the Aussies in Indochina. I got to say Welcome Home to one of them, which was the highlight of the day for me.
H
Harry
Guest
Very true, we as a nation have a lot of Viet Nam Vets.
I met a guy in Borden in ‘91 who had a rack from **** of US gongs. Bought him a beer and he told me about going South to go to the Nam (ended up buying a whole bunch of beer). Came home in ‘71 I believe. Joined the CF in ‘75 or ‘76 and never mentioned it. Sought permission to wear his US medals and ribbons in ‘85 I believe.
The poignant thing was he lamented in a half joking manner that he sometimes believed more Canadian’s went South than Yanks came North. I have spoken with the US VA and they are slowly putting together Canadian stat’s, hopefully one day we will get a better idea of the numbers. Further, this research is being done to track down how many Nam Vets are without support or medical care, including those up here. I think there is only two informal (correct me if I am wrong) former Nam Vet groups up here who keep track of some of their comrades and to help with US VA issues. I know that one of the former senior people at our Centre wanted nothing to do with a joint US project for outreach to the Nam Vets.
Their service and sacrifices are not in vain, regardless of motivation; they joined a military to fight for a cause, that cause was democracy. We can trivialize what that war was, but at the end of the day it was freedom verse communism. If you know of a Nam Vet in hard times in your Loc, you can send an e-mail to the US VA.
UBIQUE
I met a guy in Borden in ‘91 who had a rack from **** of US gongs. Bought him a beer and he told me about going South to go to the Nam (ended up buying a whole bunch of beer). Came home in ‘71 I believe. Joined the CF in ‘75 or ‘76 and never mentioned it. Sought permission to wear his US medals and ribbons in ‘85 I believe.
The poignant thing was he lamented in a half joking manner that he sometimes believed more Canadian’s went South than Yanks came North. I have spoken with the US VA and they are slowly putting together Canadian stat’s, hopefully one day we will get a better idea of the numbers. Further, this research is being done to track down how many Nam Vets are without support or medical care, including those up here. I think there is only two informal (correct me if I am wrong) former Nam Vet groups up here who keep track of some of their comrades and to help with US VA issues. I know that one of the former senior people at our Centre wanted nothing to do with a joint US project for outreach to the Nam Vets.
Their service and sacrifices are not in vain, regardless of motivation; they joined a military to fight for a cause, that cause was democracy. We can trivialize what that war was, but at the end of the day it was freedom verse communism. If you know of a Nam Vet in hard times in your Loc, you can send an e-mail to the US VA.
UBIQUE
T
TOW2B
Guest
The memorials were very nice,BUT I have to ask AND I MEAN NO DISRESPECT HERE TO THE SOLDIERS OR THEIR FAMILIES,what happens when actual Combat Casualities occur,are the same memorials going to occur?? As sad as it is that the troops were killed the fact is that they are the victims of a training accident,I do not recall this type of recognition of any other Canadian Soldiers killed during training or in fact for any of those killed while on UN Operations (108 at last count).I do not once again wish to in any way override the deaths of these troops but you have to question the motives to make such a big deal about it now,these types of accidents and deaths have been happening for years and there was never any National coverage about it other than a small sound bite or something in a local paper.
J
jrhume
Guest
Harry,
As a Vietnam vet I‘ve always been interested in the numbers of Canadians (and others) who served in the US military during that war.
The problem of how many served and in what manner is complex for many reasons. Some enlisted using assumed names. Some stayed in the service and became US citizens. I have seen claims that perhaps 30,000 Canadians served in Vietnam. However, the best analysis I‘ve seen used statistical methods to determine that the number is likely to be around 15,000. That‘s still a bunch considering the obstacles to such service.
I‘m grateful for every one of the Canadians who served with me in Vietnam. I figure each one was worth ten of the fair weather heroes who ran away to Canada or Europe.
Just one vet‘s opinion.
Jim
As a Vietnam vet I‘ve always been interested in the numbers of Canadians (and others) who served in the US military during that war.
The problem of how many served and in what manner is complex for many reasons. Some enlisted using assumed names. Some stayed in the service and became US citizens. I have seen claims that perhaps 30,000 Canadians served in Vietnam. However, the best analysis I‘ve seen used statistical methods to determine that the number is likely to be around 15,000. That‘s still a bunch considering the obstacles to such service.
I‘m grateful for every one of the Canadians who served with me in Vietnam. I figure each one was worth ten of the fair weather heroes who ran away to Canada or Europe.
Just one vet‘s opinion.
Jim
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Welcome Home to you too, Old Guy.
Tommy Atkins - you raise the same point that was raised in the Sun, I do believe, and you aren‘t being disrespectful. If we do go into Iraq alongside the Americans, there may very well be dozens of Canadians coming home.
Really, though, we can‘t right the wrongs that were done to the Peacekeeping casualties of the last 50 years, so it isn‘t fair for us to be bitter. I guess all we can do is be happy that for the moment, the Army is in the public eye in a favourable light.
And hope that we don‘t have our own Vietnam in the works. The Sun also mentioned that perhaps we need to evaluate just why it is we are in Afghanistan; perhaps once the sting has worn off of these fresh losses, we can take a step back and truly ask if we should be there. Personally, I think we should, but I don‘t claim to have the correct answer on this one.
Tommy Atkins - you raise the same point that was raised in the Sun, I do believe, and you aren‘t being disrespectful. If we do go into Iraq alongside the Americans, there may very well be dozens of Canadians coming home.
Really, though, we can‘t right the wrongs that were done to the Peacekeeping casualties of the last 50 years, so it isn‘t fair for us to be bitter. I guess all we can do is be happy that for the moment, the Army is in the public eye in a favourable light.
And hope that we don‘t have our own Vietnam in the works. The Sun also mentioned that perhaps we need to evaluate just why it is we are in Afghanistan; perhaps once the sting has worn off of these fresh losses, we can take a step back and truly ask if we should be there. Personally, I think we should, but I don‘t claim to have the correct answer on this one.
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