Bringing 'Em Back or Not? (I.D.'ed Cdn ISIS fighters, families, kids?)

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
Colin P said:
Which I think is the CPC plan of action, if you show up on our border, we arrest you.
I've seen the "we won't lift a finger" quote about Jihadi Jack, but I haven't read that level of detail in the CPC's news releases or media coverage.  Last summer, there was this:
The Honourable Michelle Rempel, Shadow Minister for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, and Pierre Paul-Hus, Shadow Minister for Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, issued a statement calling on Justin Trudeau to bring justice to the victims of ISIS and refer the cases of Canadian ISIS terrorists to the International Criminal Court: “Justin Trudeau’s government has proven itself either unwilling or unable to prosecute Canadian ISIS terrorists. Recently, one Canadian has gone as far as to admit to carrying out executions on behalf of ISIS to the New York Times. He is currently walking the streets of Canada as a free man. “To date, the Liberals have placed more emphasis on providing support like poetry training for Canadian returned ISIS terrorists than swiftly working to bring them to justice. In fact, many measures introduced by the Liberals through bills C-59 and C-75 will potentially weaken punishments for these murders. “The International Criminal Court has the power to prosecute citizens of parties to the Rome Statute. Canada is a party to this statute, and Justin Trudeau should be doing everything in his power to bring justice to the victims of ISIS. Conservatives call on the Prime Minister to refer any known Canadian ISIS terrorists to the International Criminal Court where they can finally be prosecuted for their abhorrent crimes ...
… as well as this at the end of last year:
… Conservatives continue to call on Justin Trudeau to implement the following measures:
•Stop Bill C-59, which makes it harder to bring terrorists to justice.
•Focus resources on arresting returning ISIS terrorists instead of misguided attempts at reintegration programs, like poetry lessons.
•Use existing tools to restrict the movement of known terrorists, such as peace bonds.
•Ensure surveillance of returning ISIS terrorists.
•Reform international bodies which are failing to bring ISIS terrorists to justice ...
… but I haven't read any "we will …" statements - as usual, I stand to be corrected.  The "arrest 'em as they arrive" would be how I'd bet a Team Blue government would deal with it, and it would make for very interesting court proceedings based on how complicated it might be.
 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
Interesting angle to the "One NATO member steps aside while another NATO member vows to take on forces (including some Canadians) fighting ISIS" story - this from Brit media:
... (Turkish President) Erdogan later vowed he would work with European governments to deal with any foreign ISIS prisoners in the region.

"There are (ISIS prisoners) from France, Germany, other countries. They say 'We don't want to have control over them,'" Mr Erdogan said.

"We can't look after them. What can be done about this? They are going to work on that and I instructed our colleagues to work on that too".

Kurdish leaders have long asked the west for help saying their overstretched army can't repel a Turkish invasion and guard the more than 15,000 captured prisoners the same time ...
Meanwhile, lookit who Brit media says shows up in some recent video from the area ...
The parents of 'Jihadi Jack' have spotted him in footage of a Syrian jail and begged for him to be sent back to the UK.

Jack Letts was pictured just days ago lying of the floor of an overcrowded jail in the north of the country.

In the footage he is alongside dozens of fellow Islamic State (IS) prisoners, also in orange jumpsuits, who have been captured by Kurdish militia.

The 23-year-old Muslim convert from Oxfordshire fled to the Middle East to join ISIS and has been stripped of his UK citizenship.

His mother, Sally Lane, spoke to the Mail on Sunday and pleaded for him to be allowed to return and face trial in this country ...
:pop:
 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
Think tank's take on ISIS/Daesh's push to get fighters outta Syrian camps ...
Key Takeaway: ISIS has mounted low-level efforts to replenish its ranks from members held in detention facilities and displacement camps across Syria and Iraq since late 2018. Some ISIS members have paid bribes to guards in order to buy their freedom. Others have rioted or mounted small-scale escapes attempts from at least four detention facilities in Syria and Iraq since September 2018. ISIS is likely preparing more coordinated and sophisticated operations to free its detained members in Iraq and Syria. The largest risk likely faces the network of makeshift and undermanned detention facilities spread across Northern Syria ...
More @ link
 

Journeyman

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
54
Points
530
milnews.ca said:
….The largest risk likely faces the network of makeshift and undermanned detention facilities spread across Northern Syria ...
I can't imagine Daesh exploiting a Turkish attack on Kurds as a distraction....  :pop:

I'm a fan of the article's source, Institute for the Study of War;  it's a regular part of my morning coffee, 'overnight traffic' reading (although I haven't gotten there yet since I'm been busy watching Canada getting crushed by RSA  :'( . 

Rumour has it that the Confrence of Defence Associations Institute is attempting to get the ISW Director, Kim Kagan, and her husband Fred up to speak at their spring Defence & Security Conference.
 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
Journeyman said:
I'm a fan of the article's source, Institute for the Study of War;  it's a regular part of my morning coffee, 'overnight traffic' reading (although I haven't gotten there yet since I'm been busy watching Canada getting crushed by RSA  :'( . 
I like their material because it's a bit more accessible than some other think-tanky-academic out there.
 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
Journeyman said:
I can't imagine Daesh exploiting a Turkish attack on Kurds as a distraction....  :pop:
Funny you should mention that ...
According to the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), at least three Daesh suicide bombers on Wednesday attacked its military positions in Syria's Raqqa ...
Meanwhile, in other news ...
Canada and other Western countries that have failed to repatriate citizens who fought for the Islamic State and now are detained in northern Syria, may soon face an even deeper conundrum about what to do about them, experts warned Monday.

The Trump administration has signalled it is prepared to stand aside in the event of a Turkish invasion of the region, which would be aimed at dislodging the Syrian Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG), a U.S. ally in the war against ISIS.

Stark criticism from Republicans in Congress forced U.S. President Donald Trump to temper earlier tweets by saying he would stop Turkey from going too far with an incursion, but the gyrations have created turmoil among policymakers and allies.

Since the fall of ISIS, the Syrian Democratic Forces, led by the YPG, have been holding approximately 11,000 ISIS detainees, including 2,000 foreign fighters, in more than two dozen camps.

There are as many as 32 Canadians (six men, nine women and 17 children)  in two camps in northeastern Syria, according to research by Amarnath Amarasingam, an assistant professor at Queen's University's school of religion, which was published in Policy Options magazine last summer.

In the face of a Turkish military offensive, they could soon be free ...
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
261
Points
830
We (the collective Western we) have an opportunity to exercise some choice in how it’s gonna suck.

But not choosing is a choice. And either way it’s gonna suck.
 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
The Aussies ...
The Australian government has no immediate plan to rescue its citizens – including 20 women and more than 40 children – stranded in dangerous and squalid camps in northern Syria, arguing it will not risk more Australian lives trying to get them out.

(...)

The Australian defence minister, Linda Reynolds, said on Tuesday the Australian government was in “close contact” with its allies, including the US, after the shock announcement from Trump that America would be withdrawing its troops from the region as well as support for Kurdish allies, effectively green-lighting a Turkish invasion of northern Syria.

“It is too early yet to speculate on the consequences this might have for Australian policy in the region, as it is a very rapidly evolving new situation,” Reynolds said. “We will continue to monitor and act accordingly when we have more information to hand.” ...
 

Journeyman

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
54
Points
530
milnews.ca said:
Funny you should mention that
  :not-again:  Such prescience wasn't a stretch....

[nor do I have any such skill with lottery numbers]
 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
This just in ...
The U.S. military has no plans to intervene if Syrian Kurdish forces abandon a constellation of Islamic State prisons in Syria to confront a possible Turkish invasion, officials said Tuesday.

Kurdish officials said that guards were still in place at the more than 20 prisons and camps under their control but were prepared to move, raising the possibility that about 11,000 militants and their families could escape.

U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity to describe the evolving U.S. strategy in Syria, said the Pentagon did not have enough forces to oversee the prisons if those facilities were left unguarded, nor a mandate to do so.

The Trump administration has said the responsibility for the militants detained by the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), the main U.S. partner against the Islamic State in Syria, would fall to the Turkish government if it goes ahead with the incursion ...
... with more on the overall TUR push into SYR in another dedicated thread here.
 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
While the U.S. presses European countries to take their ISIS-ites back, there's this ...
The U.S. military is taking custody of several dozen high-value Islamic State detainees, including two British men accused of involvement in the militant group’s summary executions of American and other Western hostages. The action is designed to prevent their escape or release from camps in Syria, where they have been guarded by Kurdish forces now under threat from Turkey’s incursion, according to U.S. officials.

The move, a rare instance in which the United States has taken direct responsibility for Islamic State prisoners in Iraq and Syria, comes as U.S. officials scramble to ensure that Ankara’s unfolding military operation does not permit the Islamic State to regain strength.

The roughly 40 individuals being taken into U.S. custody, all considered important Islamic State figures, previously had been held in a constellation of small prisons in northeast Syria, run by Syrian Kurdish forces who have been the Pentagon’s primary partner against the Islamic State in Syria. The Kurds are now pulling guards from those facilities to confront the unfolding Turkish assault ...
More @ link or in attached, shared in accordance with the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.
 

Attachments

  • U.S. military is taking custody of two British men accused of involvement in Islamic State kil...pdf
    147.7 KB · Views: 31

Journeyman

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
54
Points
530
milnews.ca said:
….comes as U.S. officials scramble to ensure that Ankara’s unfolding military operation does not permit the Islamic State to regain strength.
Curious how they intend to "ensure" that... while in full Pontius Pilate hand-washing mode.  ::)
 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
Colin P said:
Which I think is the CPC plan of action, if you show up on our border, we arrest you.
Also, just spotted this looking through for other election campaign info on page 39 of the Liberal platform
… To better coordinate efforts to prosecute terror suspects to the fullest extent of the law, we will move forward with the creation of a Director of Terrorism Prosecutions. This new office will make sure that Canadians who travel abroad to join terrorist organizations, or who participate in terrorist organizations here at home, are brought to justice ...
Last mention of I could find of this term goes way back to 2010, where it was one of the recommendations of the Air India final report.  It would report to the AG and work with the National Security Advisor & Co., but somewhat differently than the way the Director of Public Prosecutions works:  "A quasi arm’s-length agency like PPSC is, by design, independent from government and, as such, is unsuited to make determinations about the public interest where terrorism cases are involved."  More on the concept from the 2010 report attached.
 

Attachments

  • DirectorTerrorismProsecutionsAirIndiaReport2010.pdf
    161.2 KB · Views: 29

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
Latest on who's taken how many ...
With the decision by the United States to withdraw from its positions in northern Syria, and Turkish forces moving in, the fate of thousands of suspected Islamic State detainees remains unclear.

The detainees and their families - held by Kurdish-led forces - include foreigners from various parts of the world.

The US has called on foreign states to repatriate their nationals, accusing European nations of refusing to do so.

So, how many foreign nationals are being held by Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) and have any countries taken them back?

The families of suspected IS militants are being held at a number of camps for displaced people in northern Syria.

By far the largest is at al-Hol. It is housing almost 70,000 people, more than 94% of them women and children, of whom 11,000 are foreign nationals.

Additionally, the SDF says some 12,000 suspected IS fighters are held in seven prisons in north-east Syria, of whom about 4,000 are estimated to be foreigners (that is, neither Syrian nor Iraqi).

A US government report published in August has a lower figure for foreign adult combatants held in northern Syria - 2,000, originating from 50 countries.

Of these, about 800 are from European nations while the rest are from the Middle East, north Africa or Asia.

To put that into context, a study last year by King's College's International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation estimated more than 41,000 foreign nationals had joined IS in Iraq and Syria between April 2013 and June 2018.

Has anyone taken back their nationals?
The United Nations has said countries should take responsibility for their own citizens unless they are to be prosecuted in Syria in accordance with international standards.

Many countries have been reluctant to do so, worried about public opinion and the legal challenges of dealing with citizens who joined IS.

Human Rights Watch has described government-facilitated repatriations of foreign nationals as "piecemeal."

It says more than 1,200 foreign nationals - mainly children - have been repatriated from both Syria and Iraq to Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Russia, Kosovo, and Turkey.

But other nations have taken back only very small numbers:

France: 18 children
US: 16 adults and children
Germany: fewer than 10
Australia: eight children
Sweden: seven children
Norway: five children

In some cases, foreign nationals have been transferred to Iraqi jurisdiction and tried in that country's courts. Earlier this year, four Frenchmen were sentenced to death in Iraq in a judicial process heavily criticised at the time.

Some foreign governments have revoked citizenship to prevent the return of suspected IS members - for example in the case of Shamima Begum, from the UK, who is being held at an SDF-run camp in Syria.

Far larger numbers of foreigners who joined IS are likely to have made their own way home before Kurdish-led forces captured the jihadists' last pocket of territory in March ...
More @ link
 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
Latest from Global in the midst of the fracas - highlight mine ...
Sitting in a dim room at a detention camp in northern Syria, Kimberly Polman was feeling vulnerable. ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi had vowed to free female prisoners like herself, and she believed him.

“I take it seriously,” Polman said. “These people don’t play.”

She should know: the former British Columbia resident spent almost four years living under the Islamic State, until she and her husband were taken into custody nine months ago.

Now she is a detainee of the Kurdish forces, one of thousands in their custody because their own governments haven’t taken them back.

But what awaits Polman became even more uncertain this week, when Turkey launched an invasion of northern Syria.

The Turkish offensive shattered the relative calm that Kurdish forces had won six months ago by defeating ISIS and capturing roughly 100,000 fighters and their families.

And with the Kurds now occupied at their northern border, the incursion has created an opening for ISIS, one the terror group has been quick to exploit.

(...)

“We have reached out to Syrian Kurdish officials to seek information on Canadians in their custody and have sought assurances from Turkey that any Canadians detained in the region would be handled in accordance with international law,” said Global Affairs Canada spokesperson Barbara Harvey.

A Muslim convert who travelled to Syria after befriending a man she met online, Polman stands out among the detainees arrested during the final throes of the so-called ISIS caliphate.

She is in her 40s and, unlike many women at the camps, does not wear a black niqab. In an interview, she was regretful and described a “deradicalization project” she was working on.

But Polman is typical in one sense: while the public debate over whether to repatriate Canadian ISIS suspects captured in Syria has focused mostly on the men, they are far outnumbered by women.

During two visits to the region, Global News found few Canadian men at prisons for ISIS detainees. Three identified themselves as Canadian citizens in interviews and another two were confirmed as Canadians. A sixth is detained in Turkey.

But at least 11 Canadian women are believed to be at Al-Hawl and Roj camps, along with almost two dozen children. Another two women are believed to be hiding in the region but have not yet been caught ...
More @ link
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
187
Points
680
A Muslim convert who travelled to Syria after befriending a man she met online, Polman stands out among the detainees arrested during the final throes of the so-called ISIS caliphate.


Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
 

Edward Campbell

Army.ca Myth
Subscriber
Donor
Mentor
Reaction score
28
Points
530
My personal, and I admit idiosyncratic and flawed position is:

1. I really wish we could do something about the children. But I don't really know what or how. I'm not even sure what is "best" for them ... except that I think that they cannot be allowed to be with their parents who are either irredeemably evil or stupid...  or both;

2. I want nothing, ever, to be done, that might in any way "help" the adults who decided to go to help Da'esh/ISIL/ISIS. While, morally, I oppose sending Canadian military "his squads" to kill them, I don't care if they die at the hands of anyone else;

3. I don't want any Canadians diplomates or aid workers being put at risk to "help" these evil of stupid (or both) adults; and

4. In the unlikely event that any of them make it home, I want them locked up for a loooooong time ... for being evil or stupid or both.
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
25
Points
530
milnews.ca said:

A Muslim convert who travelled to Syria after befriending a man she met online, Polman stands out among the detainees arrested during the final throes of the so-called ISIS caliphate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberly_Gwen_Polman

Ian Austen, one of The New York Times's Canadian correspondents wrote about Polman, after discussing her with Rukmini Callimachi, The New York Times's reporter who first found her, in the refugee camp in Syria.[11] He wrote that Callimachi speculated that she first identified herself as a Canadian to her American captors because she would be treated more leniently, as a Canadian, only to realize that Canadians were "in limbo". Callamachi speculated that Polman started to identify as an American when she realized that while Americans might face prosecution upon repatriation, at least they were being repatriated.

Canadian when convenient ?

 

The Bread Guy

Army.ca Relic
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
31
Points
630
Halifax Tar said:
Canadian when convenient ?
Sometimes the nature of dual citizenship. Thanks for a bit more of the REST of the story.

A bit more @ the original NY Times article here.
 
Top