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Borden Thread- Merged

  • Thread starter Thread starter adam1850
  • Start date Start date
Trinity said:
Well, Class B, C and Reg Force soldiers are always under the service codes... aren't they? Therefore
I would surmise yes.

Has anyone been reprimanded by the military for inappropriate conduct for posts on army.ca?  (not just sexual harassment)
There was one gentleman (photo tech) who got in trouble I believe... but I would need someone to clarify more. 

Reg Force, and Cl B/C Service Mbrs are subject to the CSD 24/7.  Cl A PRes mbrss are subject to the CSD as per below.  QR & O Vol II, Art 102.01 refers:

102.01 – PERSONS SUBJECT TO THE CODE OF SERVICE DISCIPLINE
   
Section 60 of the National Defence Act provides:
 
"60. (1) The following persons are subject to the Code of Service Discipline:
   
(a) an officer or non-commissioned member of the regular force;
     
(b) an officer or non-commissioned member of the special force;
     
(c) an officer or non-commissioned member of the reserve force when the officer or non-commissioned member is
     
    (i) undergoing drill or training, whether in uniform or not,
     
    (ii) in uniform,
     
    (iii) on duty,
     
    (iv) [Repealed, S.C. 1998, c. 35, s. 19],
     
    (v) called out under Part VI in aid of the civil power,
     
    (vi) called out on service,
     
    (vii) placed on active service,
     
    (viii) in or on any vessel, vehicle or aircraft of the Canadian Forces or in or on any defence establishment or work for defence,
     
    (ix) serving with any unit or other element of the regular force or the special force, or
     
    (x) present, whether in uniform or not, at any drill or training of a unit or other element of the Canadian Forces;
     
(d) subject to such exceptions, adaptations and modifications as the Governor in Council may by regulations prescribe, a person who, pursuant to law or pursuant to an agreement between Canada and the state in whose armed forces the person is serving, is attached or seconded as an officer or non-commissioned member to the Canadian Forces;
     
(e) a person, not otherwise subject to the Code of Service Discipline, who is serving in the position of an officer or non-commissioned member of any force raised and maintained outside Canada by Her Majesty in right of Canada and commanded by an officer of the Canadian Forces;
     
(f) a person, not otherwise subject to the Code of Service Discipline, who accompanies any unit or other element of the Canadian Forces that is on service or active service in any place;
     
(g) subject to such exceptions, adaptations and modifications as the Governor in Council may by regulations prescribe, a person attending an institution established under section 47;
     
(h) an alleged spy for the enemy;
     
(i) a person, not otherwise subject to the Code of Service Discipline, who, in respect of any service offence committed or alleged to have been committed by the person, is in civil custody or in service custody; and
     
(j) a person, not otherwise subject to the Code of Service Discipline, while serving with the Canadian Forces under an engagement with the Minister whereby the person agreed to be subject to that Code.
   
(2) Every person subject to the Code of Service Discipline under subsection (1) at the time of the alleged commission by the person of a service offence continues to be liable to be charged, dealt with and tried in respect of that offence under the Code of Service Discipline notwithstanding that the person may have, since the commission of that offence, ceased to be a person described in subsection (1).
     
(3) Every person who, since allegedly committing a service offence, has ceased to be a person described in subsection (1), shall for the purposes of the Code of Service Discipline be deemed, for the period during which under that Code he is liable to be charged, dealt with and tried, to have the same status and rank that he held immediately before so ceasing to be a person described in subsection (1)."
     
(C) (1 September 1999)
   
NOTE
   
Judicial interpretation of subsection 60(2) of the National Defence Act, taken with subsection 69(1), restricts the exercise of jurisdiction of service tribunals over a person who was subject to the Code of Service Discipline at the time of the alleged commission of a service offence to cases where it can be demonstrated that:
   
(i) trial by a service tribunal is dictated by disciplinary considerations essential to the maintenance of the morale and readiness of those remaining in the Service; and
     
(ii) not to exercise jurisdiction will adversely affect the general standard of discipline and efficiency of the service.
   
As the exercise of jurisdiction of a service tribunal under subsection 60(2) of the National Defence Act involves matters of legal and factual complexity and sensitivity, no case involving such exercise should be commenced without prior appropriate consultation with a representative of the Judge Advocate General.
   
(C)

 
It's not clearcut for all pers on class B service.  The terms of the NDA have to be satisfied for the member to be subject 24/7 - that is, they must be serving with the Reg F (not always), in uniform (not always), on a base/military facility (not always).

If you want to have fun with a military lawyer, get them to go through all the permutations of when a Reservist is / is not subject to the CSD.  Or read about the guy arrested for not going to his own court-martial, then acquitted on that charge.
 
dapaterson said:
It's not clearcut for all pers on class B service.  The terms of the NDA have to be satisfied for the member to be subject 24/7 - that is, they must be serving with the Reg F (not always), in uniform (not always), on a base/military facility (not always).

If you want to have fun with a military lawyer, get them to go through all the permutations of when a Reservist is / is not subject to the CSD.  Or read about the guy arrested for not going to his own court-martial, then acquitted on that charge.

But on Cl B, you are on a Route Letter stating start/end dates, etc etc.  How can that NOT be clear??  In the letter of the NDA then, all those years I was Cl B on callout, when I was in Freddytown (depending on what unit I was on Cl B with in Gagetown...CTC Armour School vice MTSC/ARTS), I was not subject to the CSD, or the weekends I was home while Cl B(A) at the Bde HQ when I was home on the weekend?  The Bde HQ was not a Reg Force unit, IMO.

BUT...if I were at home in uniform, and the RSS WO from my unit called me and gave me an order (assume lawful command), being that I was in uniform, IAW with the NDA I would then be subject to the CSD? 

That seems ludicrous to me.   ::)

 
I've seen this happen before. You'll notice that the reports say that the women mentioned the 'advances' to someone else, who then decided to act on their behalf as if it was some kind of offence. Sometimes the third party is right, sometimes not. It never works out well for the accused, however.
 
Maybe he said they looked like two bit whores?  ;D  Maybe he said they where fugly.

Anyway he's gone and its not worth dwelling on - other than learning a lesson to watch what you say in public (or private)...


and yes some (then) members of the CF have had comments on Army.ca create some drama.
 
Infidel-6 said:
Anyway he's gone and its not worth dwelling on - other than learning a lesson to watch what you say in public (or private)...

And an excellent case of leading by example...unfortunately, it was a bad example.
 
PC justice at its best,a third party complains,as far as I can
understand there has been no investigation result but this
guy who has served his country 20 years is gone.Yet a
a Commander in command of troops in a near combat
situation(Somalia) doesn't know the training level of his
soldiers or ,apparently, what the hell they were doing,is retroactively
promoted.
  Something wrong somewhere gents.
                                           Regards
PS.Maybe this third party didn't like his "grumpy" boss.
 
time expired said:
PC justice at its best,a third party complains,as far as I can
understand there has been no investigation result but this
guy who has served his country 20 years is gone.

I can agree with you on this part of your post, as all the facts are not public knowledge and it does look like a "knee jerk reaction" towards a PC end.

However, you swing in the opposite direction with this second half to your statement:
time expired said:
Yet a a Commander in command of troops in a near combat
situation(Somalia) doesn't know the training level of his
soldiers or ,apparently, what the hell they were doing,is retroactively
promoted.
  Something wrong somewhere gents.
                                           Regards
PS.Maybe this third party didn't like his "grumpy" boss.

Once again, all the facts ARE NOT Public Knowledge, but you have formed an opinion anyway.



The person you are referring to was not the CO of the Airborne Regt, but a Staff Officer in Mogadishu.
 
I didn't want to highjack this thread, it just seems to me that these
two events showing up close to each other on this site show a very
strange view of what justice is seen to be in CF.A Commander who
it seems was not in command and a Base Commander who made
a comment that was perceived by someone to be sexually harassing,
and you are absolutely right I have formed an opinion, a Commander
is responsible for what takes place in his command,bottom line!.
                                          Regards
 
All I can say, is I would personally try to keep my opinion to myself until I had all the facts to make that opinion a correct one.  In both cases, neither of us, nor anyone else on this site, has the full facts, so none of us should be publicly voicing opinions, truly or falsely attributing judgement on either of these men. 

You are also comparing two different "times" or eras of history, which really is like comparing apples and oranges.
 
Voice of reason, true words!


George Wallace said:
All I can say, is I would personally try to keep my opinion to myself until I had all the facts to make that opinion a correct one.  In both cases, neither of us, nor anyone else on this site, has the full facts, so none of us should be publicly voicing opinions, truly or falsely attributing judgement on either of these men. 

You are also comparing two different "times" or eras of history, which really is like comparing apples and oranges.
 
George Wallace said:
The person you are referring to was not the CO of the Airborne Regt, but a Staff Officer in Mogadishu.

Not the CO of the CAR - but the BattleGroup Commander...
 
HELP  Are the PM Q's in Borden in short supply? My husband applied in May and has not heard anything yet?????? Our baby is due the middle of Sept. and I'm anxious to move and "settle" until the spring.
Any suggestions on what I (we) should do?
 
baby said:
HELP  Are the PM Q's in Borden in short supply? My husband applied in May and has not heard anything yet?????? Our baby is due the middle of Sept. and I'm anxious to move and "settle" until the spring.
Any suggestions on what I (we) should do?

Contact the CFHA in Borden - the CFHA site was posted in a prior msg in this thread.
 
http://borden.mil.ca/hosp/english/health/MIR/mir_e.asp

And just in case you're not on the DIN.

MIR
SICK PARADE

Mon thru Fri    07:30 - 10:00

Urgent and semi-urgent health concerns will be seen and dealt with accordingly all day long.


You can book a medical appointment by calling the Clinic reception at ext: 2409.

Sat, Sun & Holidays  08:00 - 10:00*

*Please note that weekend Sick Parade is for urgent or semi-urgent health concerns that cannot wait until normal weekday Sick Parade hours.
There is only one Doctor and one Med Tech in the Clinic with no X-ray, Lab or Pharmacy support.


 
Hey Quags, course can't be that hard ?  you haven't even started  ;D
 
7-10 there is a snag, the Orderly Room called and said I am off the course (truth be told I should have left by now for Borden)........an hour later I am back on the bus, and a short one at that

also may have West Nile and need to do a follow up in Borden but I don't want to waste course time on the issue.  Hence the MIR question.
 
O.k. shitty go then.  So I take it you are on your way to be checked here then?  I would see them straight away myself.  Weekend or not.  They are pretty good and I am sure would be understanding.  Let me know if there is anything I can do for you down here.

Cheers
 
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