BGen Ménard relieved of Afganistan Comd & other fall-outs

[vonGarvin]

ltmaverick: If your NCOs openly admit that they have found people, but refused to do anything about it, then they (the these NCOs) are contravening directives, as well as the NDA.

Fixed my post in order to avoid confusion.

 

[vonGarvin]

Im not trying to infer that NCOs are more guilty then officers or any such thing like that.  I was just recalling one exchange that I whitnessed.  Nothing else should be taken from that.

Dude, this is what I meant by STFU.  Earlier, you asserted that it happens all the time, and at every opportunity over there.  Now you state that you whitnessed (sic) ONE exchange.  Please, there are enough rumours being spread on the news.  Let's stick to facts here and be specific.  For example, during my 7.5 months in KAF, and a previous 3 months in Kabul, I saw and/or heard of exactly 0 incidents.  This of course does NOT mean that it didn't happen, but I would be just as wrong to say that it never happened, as you are wrong to say that it happens all the bloody time.

 

[ltmaverick25]

Dude, this is what I meant by STFU.  Earlier, you asserted that it happens all the time, and at every opportunity over there.  Now you state that you whitnessed (sic) ONE exchange.  Please, there are enough rumours being spread on the news.  Let's stick to facts here and be specific.  For example, during my 7.5 months in KAF, and a previous 3 months in Kabul, I saw and/or heard of exactly 0 incidents.  This of course does NOT mean that it didn't happen, but I would be just as wrong to say that it never happened, as you are wrong to say that it happens all the bloody time.

I realize this one exchange isnt enough to make that generalization, but, that is just one of many things leading me to that argument.  Im not going to write a huge essay detailing every other bit..  Regardless my opinion still stands, based on my own experience, and the experience of too many others, this seems to be a battle that the chain of command cannot win.

 

[Jarnhamar]

While it's going to happen regardless, that's not an excuse not to punish it.
It seems to get punished more (surprise) when the relationship becomes an issue in the work place and I'm comfortable with that.

We had a MCpl and Cpl dating. Same platoon, different section. Everyone knew about it but outside our platoon you'd never know.

Another soldier in our platoon was seeing two different girls from another unit at the same time. The two women who were friends had no idea. Ironically both became pregnant.
Guess which case caused more drama.

I agree vern when it happens and it becomes an issue both parties (or all parties heh) should be charged. Especially so if the end result is an RTU.
Interesting point about the "You can't court martial me it'll cause me undue stress" defense. I wonder if anyone has tried that back in Canada.

If it wasn't an issue, wasn't affecting the work place and there were no concerns over favoritism I wouldn't report it.

 

[Loachman]

Define "win".

Eliminate completely? No.

Reduce to a minimum? Yes.

The chain of command cannot "win" against drug usage, either, if you opt for the former, but should we just ignore that too?

Then we just need the rock 'n' roll and we've got a real party.

 

[vonGarvin]

We had a MCpl and Cpl dating. Same platoon, different section. Everyone knew about it but outside our platoon you'd never know.

This is a perfect example of an acceptable relationship (so long as no "hanky panky" in theatre, but I'll leave that for now).  The MCpl is NOT in the Cpl's chain of command, does not have anything to do with the Cpl's shift work, reporting, PERs, etc and so forth.

 

[armyvern]

"You can't court martial me it'll cause me undue stress" defense. I wonder if anyone has tried that back in Canada.

Almost, but I don't think any chicks would have to use that as a defense ... because I just can't see the CoC going there in the first place. But, then why not CM her AFTER the child is born then?

I'd be interested in seeing the stats on the number of CMs of women that have occured after they have been RTUd from theatre knocked up --- let's say --- RTUd after 3 or 4 months in theatre because they were 2 months pregnant, having taken no leave from theatre ...

Immaculate conceptions??

Bueller?? Anyone??

 

[vonGarvin]

Immaculate conceptions??

>

 

[ltmaverick25]

Define "win".

Eliminate completely? No.

Reduce to a minimum? Yes.

The chain of command cannot "win" against drug usage, either, if you opt for the former, but should we just ignore that too?

Then we just need the rock 'n' roll and we've got a real party.

Thats a good point, I just think that the minimum we are acheiving is not good enough and it is extremely frustrating.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Folks, this tangent is getting way out of hand. It might be worth it if we hadn’t done this before, but we have. With the same results.

When something comes in regarding the actual person the thread is about, contact a Mod to get it included.

Temp lock

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[McG]

General paid just price for indiscretion
The Montreal Gazette
07 Jun 2010

Brig.-Gen. Daniel Menard, commander until recently of Canada's battle group in Kandahar, has fallen victim to a strict but necessary measure of military discipline.

In any line of work, an intimate relationship with a subordinate can complicate a manager's life; in the Armed Forces, and in time of war, it is particularly dangerous. Although we regret the almost-certain end of Menard's career, and the damage this might do to morale, there is no doubt: Canadian Forces brass did the right thing in removing him from command -- provided that there actually was an inappropriate relationship. Quick exemplary punishment should be the norm for senior officers. They are more constrained, not less, by rules everyone in uniform is expected to follow.

In an era of general sexual liberty in society, the swift official response in this case might seem an overreaction, but there are good reasons for the ban on public displays of affection, and the discouraging of private romance. Morale and discipline can easily be upended by hormones. And many Forces members overseas have spouses at home who want to be able to trust in the fidelity of their partners. For a senior officer to disregard the rules this way simply can't be tolerated.

 

[211RadOp]

From the Kingston Whig Standard

Menard won't head land forces in Quebec, assigned to personnel management project

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2627548

Posted By QMI Agency
Posted 2 hours ago
 

Brig.-Gen. Daniel Menard, Canada's former top soldier in Afghanistan, has been posted to head a team developing a new computerized personnel system for the Canadian Forces.

Menard was relieved of his duties in Afghanistan late last month after he allegedly engaged in a romantic relationship with another Canadian soldier in contravention of the military's fraternization policy.

The department of national defence announced Thursday that Menard has been appointed head of the Personnel Management Capability Transformation Project. It had previously said Menard would be appointed commander of land forces for Quebec, but the decision to reassign him was made because of what happened in Afghanistan.

"I made a decision not to appoint Brig.-Gen. Menard as the Commander of Land Force Quebec Area due to the fact that the CF leadership recently lost confidence in his capacity to command in Afghanistan," Chief of Land Staff Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie said in a release. "After careful consideration, I deemed this change was in the best interests of the Army and Canadian Forces."

Brig.-Gen. Alain Tremblay has been appointed commander of land force, Quebec area. He takes command on July 30.

 

[McG]

Armed Forces regulations aim to save lives
Charlottetown
The Guardian
11 June 2010

Is it fair or even reasonable to demand that consenting adults, living adrenaline-fuelled lives of adventure far from the comforts of hearth and home, resist the temptation to do what only comes naturally?

By that we mean, ah, cavorting with members of the opposite sex.

That's what Canada's Armed Forces expects of its members currently serving their country in dusty, dangerous Afghanistan. And to show how serious it is about its non-fraternization policy, it recently removed the man in charge of Canada's mission there after allegations surfaced about an inappropriate relationship he allegedly had with a female subordinate.

Brig.-Gen Daniel Menard was replaced before an official investigation even confirmed what Canadian Forces brass alleged, a move praised by top commander Gen. Walter Natynczyk as the right thing to do.

"When we put people in harm's way," Natynczyk told The Canadian Press, "we have to insist on a high level of discipline, no matter what we do . . . We hold our leaders to a high standard. They're held to account."

Surely the folks at the top deserve credit for treating a high-ranking soldier as they would a lowly grunt, but at the same time it's worth wondering whether they're asking too much in the first place.

Canada has a long history of integrating women with our Armed Forces. Nurses began serving with the military as far back as 1885, and nearly 3,000 of them served with the Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps in the First World War, with their roles and numbers expanding during the Second World War.

In 1989, the Armed Forces opened the floodgates, with women allowed to take active combat roles. We lost our first female combat soldier - Capt. Nichola Goddard - in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban in 2006.

Now, it's estimated women make up about 15 per cent of Canada's military forces.

With so many young Canadians sharing such close quarters, it's reasonable to expect some of them to take a shine to one another. But the direction from the top is clear - when it comes to romance, just say no.

Afghanistan is a dangerous place, where life-and-death decisions must be made under exceptional circumstances free of the emotional baggage that sometimes accompanies relationships between men and women.

So while Canadian Forces rules about fraternization might appear severe, they're necessary for the safety of all soldiers in the field - not just the ones who might succumb to the temptation presented by members of the opposite sex.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

News Room
Announcement Of Changes To Army Senior Appointments
NR - 10.061 - June 17, 2010

OTTAWA - Lieutenant-General Andrew Leslie, Chief of Land Staff, announced today that Brigadier-General Alain Tremblay has been appointed as the Commander of Land Force Quebec Area and will take command on July 30, 2010.

“Brigadier-General Tremblay is an experienced commander who will provide exemplary leadership to the officers and soldiers under his command,” said LGen Leslie. “I congratulate him on his appointment and wish him every success as he takes command.”

LGen Leslie further announced that BGen Daniel Ménard has been appointed to head the Military Personnel Management Capability Transformation Project, reporting to the Chief of Military Personnel. In this capacity he will be responsible to lead a team in developing a new computerized personnel management system for the Canadian Forces.

It was previously announced that BGen Daniel Ménard would take command of Land Force Quebec Area upon his return from Afghanistan.

“I made a command decision not to appoint Brigadier-General Ménard as the Commander of Land Force Quebec Area due to the fact that the CF leadership recently lost confidence in his capacity to command in Afghanistan,” said LGen Leslie. “After careful consideration, I deemed this change was in the best interests of the Army and Canadian Forces.”

-30-

For more information:

Major Mike Audette, Army Public Affairs Officer
Tel: (613) 992-4738
E-mail: michael.audette@forces.gc.ca

 

[Infanteer]

So I take it "Military Personnel Management Capability Transformation Project" is code for "corner for dead careers"?

 

[cavalryman]

So I take it "Military Personnel Management Capability Transformation Project" is code for "corner for dead careers"?

Let me put it this way - the previous project leader was a retired RegF BGen brought back on Cl B until she CRA'd out.  BGen Ménard is in for quite a shock...  I don't know what kind of NDHQ time he has, but we shall see how he adapts to the fun and games at the puzzle palace trying to sell a $200M project to the Treasury Board.

 

[McG]

So I take it "Military Personnel Management Capability Transformation Project" is code for "corner for dead careers"?

The CF wants to replace the Human Resource Management System, move to a common Reg/Res pers database, adopt a single pay system, and (I hope) maintain many of the supervisor tools enabled by MonitorMass & its current interactions with HRMS, CFTPO & MITE.  This is a major capital project.

 

[Gunner98]

So perhaps it is a second chance or the project needed a fall guy with good credentials!

 

[Tank Troll]

So perhaps it is a second chance or the project needed a fall guy with good credentials!

Probably the latter of the two.

 

[Michael OLeary]

What was the term the Japanese used to use for businessmen who were moved into an out-of-the-way office and given no useful work to wait out the remaining years to their retirement?