BFT for CIC Officers.

[Strike]

Rogo - when a unit does a BFT off military property they will usually issue a public service announcement.  In that PSA it will mention whether or not they are carrying real riffles and that there is NO ammunition.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Rogo - when a unit does a BFT off military property they will usually issue a public service announcement.  In that PSA it will mention whether or not they are carrying real riffles and that there is NO ammunition.

I was always told that we don't announce whether or not the weapons we are carrying are real and whether we have ammunition or not for security reasons.

 

[Rogo]

Rogo - when a unit does a BFT off military property they will usually issue a public service announcement.  In that PSA it will mention whether or not they are carrying real riffles and that there is NO ammunition.

Regardless, not everyone will see such an announcement and all it takes is one incident and a call to a radio station or a news source or even the dreaded facebook and the issue is out there.  Fake weapons or not, people won't know the difference.

 

[Haggis]

Sometimes I see personnel (I assume PRes) doing ruck marches in Ottawa.

Lots of members do ruck marches in the Ottawa area.  Most are Army (Reg F and P Res) but some are RCN and RCAF looking for another way to stay in shape or prep for a deployment.  My Capt(N) and RCAF Major routinely come out with me.  Good way to "talk shop" and do some workup training at the same time. 

 

[Strike]

Regardless, not everyone will see such an announcement and all it takes is one incident and a call to a radio station or a news source or even the dreaded facebook and the issue is out there.  Fake weapons or not, people won't know the difference.

Except that said radio and news source would have the PSA in hand.  And if a person were to post something on FB, then all it takes is one of their friends who actually reads the paper to copy and paste the PSA to buddy's thread.

 

[Robert0288]

Lots of members do ruck marches in the Ottawa area.  Most are Army (Reg F and P Res) but some are RCN and RCAF looking for another way to stay in shape or prep for a deployment.  My Capt(N) and RCAF Major routinely come out with me.  Good way to "talk shop" and do some workup training at the same time.

I know that myself and a couple other people at my unit (PRes) ruck down from moonyes bay through vincent massy park to bronson, around Carleton U then back up the canal on strange days.  Nice route, minor variation in elevation and the only thing you have to worry about is some crazy guy on a bike.  Also there are some units downtown who go up the canal to Dows lake and back hitting 13km as well.

 

[Pusser]

I know that myself and a couple other people at my unit (PRes) ruck down from moonyes bay through vincent massy park to bronson, around Carleton U then back up the canal on strange days.  Nice route, minor variation in elevation and the only thing you have to worry about is some crazy guy on a bike.  Also there are some units downtown who go up the canal to Dows lake and back hitting 13km as well.

Hey!  I'm that crazy guy on the bike!  And I rang my bell.

I did see a guy in CADPAT carrying a rifle awhile ago all by himself.  I actually did call the MPs because I thought it was suspicious.  A group would make sense, but one guy?  It made me think about the problems we had in Toronto a number of years ago.  It seems one regiment in particular in the Toronto Garrison had problems with guys joining and disappearing with all their kit - until found by the police in High Park stalking the tourists...

 

[Robert0288]

There were more than a few that didn't   Where you the one who also said "13 more km to go troops" or something along those lines as you past by?  I had 2 people do that. 
I would be a little concerned about the guy with a rifle all by himself too as 1) Troops don't normally get left behind all by themselves, or atleast without a safety vehicle or something within earshot. 2) Even during work up training I would expect them to bring somone else with them, or atleast leave the rifle back in the armory.

 

[Mike5]

Following this thread with some interest.  Are there any Canadian Forces sponsored events that civilians can participate in ... along the lines of the Marine Corps Marathon in the US?

 

[God56]

I did the BFT with the Essex and Scottish

Essex and Kent scottish

 

[Haggis]

Following this thread with some interest.  Are there any Canadian Forces sponsored events that civilians can participate in ... along the lines of the Marine Corps Marathon in the US?

The Army Run:  http://www.armyrun.ca/

 

[Strike]

http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Trenton/EN/FitnessandSports/MilitaryFitness/Pages/SurfNTurf.aspx

Trenton Surf'N Turf

 

[OldSolduer]

http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Trenton/EN/FitnessandSports/MilitaryFitness/Pages/SurfNTurf.aspx

Trenton Surf'N Turf

Air Force Run

www.airforcerun.com

Posted by a Canadian Army guy lol

 

[Aken13]

Please do tell me about CIC deployments. Do you mean to say members of the police force who donate their time to a youth organistaion; may deploy to foreign countries as part of the police force? Or for a trip in the way back when machine the Wavy Navy or something?

Not "exactly the same thing, but civilian cops non the less:
http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afghanistan/police.aspx?lang=eng&view=d

iper:

 

[aesop081]

Not "exactly the same thing, but civilian cops non the less:
http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afghanistan/police.aspx?lang=eng&view=d

iper:

So you agree....CIC members have not deployed to Afghanistan as CIC members.

It is not "not exactly the same thing"................it's not at all.

 

[dogger1936]

So you agree....CIC members have not deployed to Afghanistan as CIC members.

It is not "not exactly the same thing"................it's not at all.

Precisely.


I wish people like Aken13 would spend a little more time focusing on the youth in the program than pretending to be something they are not. It's a large problem within the youth group in which CIC administer.

While police like the above deploy in their civilian role from time to time; no CIC have the training or mandate to do so. CIC training of a 6 day course on writing a memo and some powerpoint on "leadership" is not a good training base to deploy to a war zone with a platoon of soldiers with.

Please stop pretending you are anything remotely close to a soldier. your not.  You act as a leader of children in a community based youth program much like beavers and scouts.

If you can wear the uniform properly it would be appreciated and a step in the right direction; as many of us soldiers buried our friends in the same uniform your wearing. It makes me ill to see it poorly worn and used as a prop in a magical world of make believe.

 

[dogger1936]

I would also like to ask if anyone can direct me to a written direction on the ability of CIC to lead regular force or reserve force soldiers. I have HEARD that they cannot; yet can't seem to find anything on it. Anyone ever see this written somewhere?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I would also like to ask if anyone can direct me to a written direction on the ability of CIC to lead regular force or reserve force soldiers. I have HEARD that they cannot; yet can't seem to find anything on it. Anyone ever see this written somewhere?

CANFORGEN 081/05 VCDS 016 270938Z APR 05
CLARIFICATION ON THE USE OF CADET INSTRUCTOR CADRE (CIC) OFFICERS OUTSIDE THE CANADIAN CADET MOVEMENT
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. DGRC MESSAGE 488 011853Z SEP 98
B. D RES MESSAGE 311 041411Z FEB 04



THIS MESSAGE REPLACES REFERENCE B. THE POLICY ON TERMS OF SERVICE FOR CIC OFFICERS HAS BEEN APPLIED INCONSISTENTLY OVER THE YEARS. WITH THE IMPENDING IMPLEMENTATION OF AN OCCUPATIONAL STRUCTURE FOR CIC OFFICERS SOME OF THE ISSUES REGARDING PERMISSIBLE USE OF CIC OFFRS WILL BE RESOLVED. THERE STILL MAY BE SOME AGENCIES OUTSIDE THE CCM WHO UNKNOWINGLY MISUSE MEMBERS OF THE CIC. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO REITERATE THE POLICY THAT CIC OFFICERS WILL NOT BE USED OUTSIDE THE CCM


THE PRIMARY DUTY OF A CIC OFFICER IS THE SAFETY, SUPERVISION, ADMINISTRATION, AND TRAINING OF CADETS. AS DEFINED IN QR&O 2.034(C), THE RAISON D'ETRE OF CIC OFFICERS IS TO BE EXPERTS IN YOUTH LEADERSHIP ON BEHALF OF THE CF


THE PURPOSE OF REFERENCE A WAS TO REMIND EMPLOYERS THAT THE CIC HAT BADGE IS NOT BE USED AS A BADGE OF CONVENIENCE TO ALLOW PERSONNEL TO LEAVE THE REGULAR FORCE OR THE PRIMARY RESERVE AT THE AGE OF 55 AND CONTINUE THEIR SERVICE IN THE CF WHILE WEARING THE CIC HAT BADGE AND CONTINUING IN THEIR SAME JOB UNTIL THE AGE OF 65 - THE CRA FOR CIC OFFICERS. THE MESSAGE STATED, IT IS ONLY WHEN HE/SHE IS EMPLOYED IN DIRECT SUPPORT OF CCO ACTIVITIES THAT A CIC OFFICER OR A SUPP RES MEMBER ATTACHED TO THE CIC MAY BE ON ACTIVE SERVICE UNTIL AGE 65. THE MESSAGE WENT ON TO STATE, ACTION ADDRESSES ARE TO TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION TO ENSURE THAT ABUSES OF THIS TYPE CEASE IMMEDIATELY.


REFERENCE B WAS ISSUED TO REINFORCE REFERENCE A AND TO END THE INAPPROPRIATE USE OF CIC OFFICERS IN POSITIONS THAT ARE NOT IN SUPPORT OF THE CCM. IN REFERENCE B, DRES STATED, THE AIM OF THIS DIRECTION IS TO MINIMIZE THE NUMBER OF CIC OFFICERS OUTSIDE OF THE CCO ON NON-CADET RELATED ACTIVITIES. EVENTUALLY CIC OFFICERS WILL BE USED ONLY IN CHIEF OF RESERVE AND CADETS DIVISION, CADET UNITS, REGIONAL CADET SUPPORT UNITS OR DETACHMENTS, CADET SUMMER TRAINING CENTERS (CSTCS), GLIDING SCHOOLS, SAIL CENTERS, AS STAFF OFFICERS ON PROJECTS OR IN OTHER STAFF POSITIONS THAT CAN BE DIRECTLY RELATED TO SUPPORT OF CIC OR CADET RELATED ACTIVITIES. CIC OFFICERS WERE REMINDED THAT IF THEY WISHED TO CONTINUE THEIR SERVICE OUTSIDE THE CCM, THEY SHOULD REQUEST A TRANSFER TO THE PRES


HENCEFORTH, CIC OFFICERS WILL ONLY BE USED ON CADET-RELATED ACTIVITIES AND ONLY IN THOSE POSITIONS DETAILED IN PARAGRAPH FOUR. NO CIC OFFICER CURRENTLY ON RESERVE SERVICE OUTSIDE THE CCM (OR FORMER CIC OFFICERS WHO ARE CURRENTLY ON THE SUPP RES OR ATTACHED FROM THE SUPP RES) WILL BE EXTENDED BEYOND THE COMPLETION OF HIS OR HER CURRENT ONE YEAR TERM OF SERVICE. QUESTIONS REGARDING PERMISSIBLE EMPLOYMENT ARE TO BE DIRECTED TO THE DRES STAFF AT DGRC. FURTHER, ALL REGIONAL COMMANDERS ARE TO CONDUCT A STAFF CHECK TO CONFIRM THAT ALL CIC OFFICERS ON THEIR ESTABLISHMENTS OCCUPY CIC POSITIONS AND THAT ALL THOSE CIC OFFICERS ARE WORKING IN POSITIONS THAT DIRECTLY SUPPORT THE CCM. YOUR STAFFS ARE TO INFORM BOTH DRES AND DCDTS OF THE RESULT OF THIS STAFF CHECK BY 31 MAY 05.THE RESULT OF THIS STAFF CHECK BE COMPARED WITH EXISTING RPSR DATA TO CONFIRM THE NUMBER OF CIC OFFICERS WHO REMAIN EMPLOYED OUTSIDE THE CCM

 

[Nfld Sapper]

2.034 – RESERVE FORCE – SUB-COMPONENTS
   
The sub-components of the Reserve Force are:
    (a) the Primary Reserve, which consists of officers and non-commissioned members who have undertaken, by the terms of their enrolment, to perform such military duty and training as may be required of them and contains all formed Reserve Force units;
      (b) the Supplementary Reserve, which consists of officers and non-commissioned members who, except when on active service, are not required to perform military or any other form of duty or training;
      (c) the Cadet Organizations Administration and Training Service, which consists of officers and non-commissioned members who, by the terms of their enrolment or transfer, and supported by members of the Regular Force and members of the other Reserve Force sub-components, have undertaken as their primary duty the supervision, administration and training of cadets or junior Canadian rangers who are members of the cadet organizations referred to in section 46 of the National Defence Act.
      (2 June 2009)      (2 juin 2009) 
  (d) the Canadian Rangers, which consists of officers and non-commissioned members who have undertaken, by the terms of their enrolment, to perform such military duty and training as may be required of them, but who are not required to undergo annual training

National Defence Act, Sect 46

Cadet Organizations

Formation

46. (1) The Minister may authorize the formation of cadet organizations under the control and supervision of the Canadian Forces to consist of persons of not less than twelve years of age who have not attained the age of nineteen years.

Training, administration, provision and command

(2) The cadet organizations referred to in subsection (1) shall be trained for such periods, administered in such manner and provided with materiel and accommodation under such conditions, and shall be subject to the authority and command of such officers, as the Minister may direct.

Not part of Canadian Forces

(3) The cadet organizations referred to in subsection (1) are not comprised in the Canadian Forces.

 

[quadrapiper]

A note - neither of those references governs, in the broad sense, "leadership of Reg/PRes pers by CIC." Both make the purpose and application of CIC pers clear: lead/admin/support the cadet programs. In that context, there are no restrictions on the ability of CIC to lead any Reg or PRes personnel assigned to them. No different than any other officer in the CF - lead those assigned to you, and otherwise let good judgement and the regs guide your interactions with personnel junior to you outside your unit/trade/shop/whatever.