Be in shape when you arrive on course...

[TimBit]

How true.
Of the 9 sent back, there were at least two doing ROTP at civilian universities, at least one reservist, and at least four from RMC.  "Full Spectrum Failures".

Also, please note that though 9 failed the ExPres Test, over 200 passed it. 

As a further note, that is just the prerequisite to get your foot in the door.  The Commandant and his staff expect you to far exceed the minimum standard.

Of note on RMC. I also remember being at the Infantry School in 2002 and a significant number of people from RMC did not fare well on the CF Expres. Of interest, most of them were Armour.  ;D

 

[DexOlesa]

I wonder how thats even possible as the RMC PPT test has higher standards than the CF express.

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

I wonder how thats even possible as the RMC PPT test has higher standards than the CF express.

Ha. The PPT does have higher numerical standards than the EXPRESS test, but the PSP who evaluate us are very relaxed on form. There are a lot of push ups, sit ups, etc that should not count. The PSP staff at RMC do not want to fail anyone and as such they let some sloppy push ups get by. Also a lot of Ocdts only train 3 times yearly, so that they can barely scrape by on their 3 tests. Many people lack the motivation/ discipline required to establish a fit lifestyle where they wouldn't need to worry incessantly about PT tests. Its not a huge surprise to see people failing the EXPRESS test, though it is very disappointing.

 

[TimBit]

That's disheartening... you would think that students at RMC, as future leaders, would take it upon themselves to excel in all four pillars, not only two or three. Especially if you're going cbt arms, for crying out loud.

 

[DexOlesa]

the only reason I'm not complaining is that, while I switched to a healthy lifestyle and have been working my ass off I was VERY overweight (60lbs) I'm down 10 ish, but that means I still have 50 to go and only 2 months till recruit camp at RMC, I'm not gonna make it by then. Christmas however I should be in fighting form.

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

That's disheartening... you would think that students at RMC, as future leaders, would take it upon themselves to excel in all four pillars, not only two or three. Especially if you're going cbt arms, for crying out loud.

Being a part of the college and seeing so much of it first hand, it is disheartening; however, like everywhere else in the CF, there is good and bad. I know many individuals who are extremely fit and keen, and I believe that they will make very good leaders. Its unfortunate that a few bad apples can tarnish the college's reputation much faster than it takes for the good ones to build it.

 

[armyvern]

Besides doing 19 push ups vice 18 doesn't make one a better soldier over the other. 

I agree; it means that 1 of 2 was barely capable of meeting the minimum standard and that the other 1 of 2 couldn't even do that.

As already said, the PT test does nothing towards towards determining who will make a "good" soldier or not, but it does seem to show who, at least, had an ounce of personal drive in their body to 'try' to meet the minimum fitness standard for the CF - knowing full well that they: 1) applied to join the military; 2) may be going combat arms, (!! <--- BIG hint that one needs to be in shape!!); 3) will be reporting for various courses; and 4) will be tested to ensure that they can meet that bare minimum "known" standard at the outset of their career. Most of them have had "months", at the minimum, to prepare for this and get themselves into shapr after applying to the CF. Apparently, some don't have enough drive to do even that.

This testing isn't a surprise to them and they are well aware of what they need to achieve. There has to be a minimum standard set somewhere along the line and this is currently where it's at.

At the end of the day, I'll take the guy who at least made effort to attain the minimum fitness result over the one who didn't because "good" soldiers also need to exhibit personal drive, determination, an ability to overcome difficulties, personal responsibility and accountability, and an ability to work on their own in an effort to achieve results. One of them managed to that - and the other did not despite having months to prep. Désolé, I hope the door doesn't hit the others' ass on the way out because his "failure" demonstrates many more defecient areas than "just" fitness.

 

[armyvern]

One of the PSP staff assessing you in Gagetown could be this guy........ most of you in  Gagetown should know him......

Ha ha. Dave Shirley. I'm so jealous ... of his hair dammit. I actually liked having Dave for circuit training etc. He was hilarious - and made me sweat. It's nice when one leaves the gym actually having worked hard and having enjoyed themself.

 

[SeanNewman]

Ha ha. Dave Shirley. I'm so jealous ... of his hair dammit.

He doesn't even have the hair anymore. 

As for the PT Test, I will reiterate that it has nothing to do with determining whether or not someone will be a good soldier or a leader, but is treated almost as a baseline insurance policy for the staff that the candidate isn't going to have a heart attack and die when they do something hard.

I would rather have someone fail a PT test because they're junk than have them keel over on my when I'm taking the company for a run through the back woods.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Haha.. Dave.. flashback time...

 

[Pusser]

The problem with the Expres Test is that it is designed for long-legged track stars.  Us short-legged rugby players (especially forwards) have real problems with the shuttle run, but who always gets asked to carry the @#$&! radios that the long-legged track stars crumple under? 

:stirpot:

My own view is that we should do away with fitness testing altogether and instead instill a culture of fitness in the CF.  Why do we run the crap out of people on BMQ and BMOQ and then stop?  Fitness training should be a daily activity for everyone.  In other words, you're fit because you can't help but be fit.  With the exception of the hardcore Army units, when was the last time you saw a CO out leading folks through PT?  Why do we have such concern over parking spaces for vehicles when bicycle parking and access to proper change facilities is such crap?  I worked in one site where there were 800 parking spaces, but poorly maintained bike racks for only 100 and even fewer lockers in the change room.  The CF preaches a good game about being fit, but does a poor job of encouraging it.  We would rather punish people for failure than set them up for success.

 

[forgiven]

I remember when watching Basic Up Reloaded (the episode when the recruit did 20 meter shuttle run), the tall guys seems to just walk, literally, on the earlier stage!  The same cannot be said for the shorter people.  Indeed, I agree with Pusser that the test may favour the long-legged people.  Those people need to make less steps to complete 20 meter distance compared to shorter ones, thus saving energy and very possibly will reach higher stage.  But then, someone may argue that on average, tall people have more weight to carry.  Imagine being 'short' and overweight :

Every test will have flaws, I think, but the standard should be there to gauge CF member fitness, even though it is very minimum.  From my own experience, while I was physically inactive, no exercise whatsover, 40 lbs overweight,  I did the shuttle run, I reached stage 4.0.  I am a woman under 35 years old, so I passed the standard!  So, the standard is not that difficult to achieve.

 

[DexOlesa]

I am a man under 25 years old and if I make a 4.5 i'll be impressed I will also fail. 6 is up there a ways and don't get me started about the 9.5 for RMC

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Thought you guys and gals would like the Shipley thing......

 

[PanaEng]

I can't comment on Navy or AF bases but, I think, the Army does a good job of encouraging fitness.
Gym facilities are abundant; you get time to do PT - as part of your work day!  Find any civilian job that would let you do that.
Can it be better? yes, as Pusser said, more bike racks - at the front, near the entrance of the bldg - better changing facilities in each building, etc.

cheers,
Frank

 

[57Chevy]

  With the exception of the hardcore Army units, when was the last time you saw a CO out leading folks through PT? 

Ok.....it may be a hardcore army unit but....
Way back when, up in Petawawa, there is a hill named RCD HILL. Don't ask me why it carries that
name, because I don't know. But I'm sure someone does. Our CO made it a point to run up there
every single time we went on a run, in running shoes sometimes, and full kit more than sometimes.
If you were in the front you were ok, but anywhere behind then let me tell you.....you ate the dust.
And the roadway was and probably still is, a wash board, with round stones and tons of dust. And
the CO, who was older than most of us was usually found somewhere up front.
Daily exercise is fine to keep yourself toned, but physical training is a whole different ballgame.
Sweat it out.......and I'm not talking about the sauna. ;D

 

[armychick2009]

We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes.

Something about that part, really amuses me! *laughs*

 

[SeanNewman]

...My own view is that we should do away with fitness testing altogether and instead instill a culture of fitness in the CF.  Why do we run the crap out of people on BMQ and BMOQ and then stop?  Fitness training should be a daily activity for everyone.

No offence, but nobody forced you to not pick "Infantry" at the Recruiting Centre  ;D

It's all about corporate culture and personalities more than it is about rules and regulations.  There is nothing to stop a Commander in charge of 500 sailors from instilling a culture of fitness in his men anymore than an Infantry CO does with his. 

Just like the Infantry, it just means that you give up something else during that time.  All you need to do is PT 0730-0830, then wash up and back to work for 0930.

In my culture, it's embedded so much that even if you do have a legitimate reason for missing PT one day (medical appointment, car accident going to work, etc) you actually feel guilty about missing PT and walk around work sheepishly that day wondering if you're going to get charged or something.

 

[aesop081]

  All you need to do is PT 0730-0830, then wash up and back to work for 0930.

Thats exactly how it went for the forst 11 years of my career. Unfortunately, outisde the army, life is not that simple.

 

[PanaEng]

Ok.....it may be a hardcore army unit but....
Way back when, up in Petawawa, there is a hill named RCD HILL. Don't ask me why it carries that
name, because I don't know.

RCD hill bc the compound at the top was housing the RCD at one point.
shortly after I got to Pet (87) it got paved. Then, a few years later it was re-cut, the road made more gradual - from a 40% grade  ;D to a 15% one - not the same

cheers,
Frank