ATVs

[chrisf]

The only thought on ATVs.. if you're going to buy an ATV, it has to be bought with the intent of using it as an ATV... including winches and ancillary kit (snatch block, tow strap, etc), enough engine power to carry the loads that'll be expected AND more, and training that emphasises how to get them unstuck.

(Actually, all those points can be said of all military vehicles, however, they're points that the people who write the specs tend to forget... one such example I seem to recall a lesson learned about keeping tow cables *outside* rather then inside.... which is a lesson that's been learned many times yet apparently we forgot...

 

[mariomike]

They are quite usefull in domestic operations as well.

4 X 6 Gators are regularly used for patient transport. 4 x 4 Gators as non-transport medical response units.

 

[ArmyRick]

Actually if you ask Mike Sparks of Combat Reform web sites, there is no need to use ATVs in combat. The M113 (or Gavin as he thinks its called) will do everything you need then look for an obscure youtube video to follow! Ok that was uncalled for but too tempting to resist.

So depending on Threat and Mission requirements (A good combat estimate will determine if/how the ATV may be used) and understanding its capabilities and limitations, here are some cool things I could see it doing

1. The obvious, moving ammo/water/demo forward to areas AFV can't get and casualties out
2. Hauling heavy weapons such as the 40mm AGLS, 50 cal, 81mm mortars, TOW ground mount, etc, etc.
3. I could see engineers making use of this as well in areas where AFV can't get too. Engineers have alot of tools and toys that is not really man portable
4. In perceived lower threat environments, as a patrol/recce vehicle (NO, I do not mean using ATV in the same way as a british scimitar or Canadian lynx).
5. Moving a commander up quickly to allow him to see for himself the situation (for example, a Task force commander wants to see the Coy OC and the coy sitrep after a firefight and the area is reasonably secured). Again AFV would be preferable but when not practical and the commander needs speed, why not?
6. Use it to a limited extent to haul defensive stores around instead of having Pte Joe Bloggins and his pal make 10 million trips for revetting, sand bags, pickets, etc, etc.
7. Use it to haul beer, oops, I mean canteen goodies to the guys at the front

 

[George Wallace]

Crap!  You had to bring up Sparkie.  You'd think that he may just latch onto the ATV idea himself, being "Airborne" and all.

 

[Journeyman]

Actually if you ask Mike Sparks of Combat Reform web sites......

  :rofl: America's own S. Ram-Taylor

 

[Franko]

  :rofl: America's own S. Ram-Taylor

I'm expecting ol' Sparky to be either looking at this forum or posting shortly.

Bow down to the GAVIN!

:

 

[vonGarvin]

I'm expecting ol' Sparky to be either looking at this forum or posting shortly.

Bow down to the GARVIN!

:

There, NOW it makes perfect sense.  To me, anyway!  >

 

[George Wallace]

There, NOW it makes perfect sense.  To me, anyway!  >

You Mech guys.  So you want to be a M113?

 

[vonGarvin]

You Mech guys.  So you want to be a M113?

I don't want to be an M113, after all, I'm the Technoviking: M113's want to be ME!  ;D

 

[ArmyRick]

Hate to derail the thread but since we are picking on Slim Jim Gavin's biggest fan, Sparky, I have to mention this. The clown in his weird ilogical method of doing things, sent me a youtube link to one of his videos.

It was described as Gavins operating without any loss to IED and basically being indestructable in Iraq. It was a 30 second shot of an M113A3 (Not air droppable BTW) rolling down the highway. Mind you, there was no one firing at it either.

But the minute a LAVIII or a stryker is hit by fire or blown by a large IED (That would also level an M113) he is quick to put up pics or make videos of what he calls "Stryker death traps". Whatever.

I read a comment by a US Army Bradley commander who told sparks on a reply to one of his articles that the M113s in Iraq mostly sat parked and unused in camps.

Rant over.

 

[a_majoor]

Ah, Sparky; the gift that keeps on giving....

If his point was that an inexpensive, reliable tracked machine similar to the M-113 in concept but made out of modern materials and with modern engineering support (drivetrain, suspension, IED resistance, power management and built in databus for computer and radio equipment) would be a desirable piece of kit, I would hardly argue.

The Korean K-21 demonstrates that something like this is possible (the machine is built out of composite material for light weight yet can resist automatic cannon fire across the front face and 14.5mm across the sides), although it is actually very similar to a M-2 Bradley in concept rather than a recycled or rebuilt M-113.

Bringing the discussion back towards reality, if something like the K-21 hull was provided but we accept only an RWS for firepower, then we could be getting close to an "ideal" vehicle. The hull is spacious enough to be used for many roles, the low ground pressure will give it good mobility without the mechanical complexity of an ST Bronco or BV-206 and it could be available in enough numbers to provide protected mobility for virtually all troops who need it (and yes we could contract for 100+ turreted versions for the CCV project).

Special applications still need special vehicles like "Gators" or "Broncos" (or Tanks or SP artillery), but I would probably vote for the 6X6 Gator as having more flexibility and versatility than a 4X4 ATV in the military role, and even then in only small numbers for the special applications.

This discussion may be mooted in less than a decade, exoskeletons have been developed to the point of field trials and should be available within a decade to allow individual troops to transport large logistic loads of consumables etc. on their backs (maybe even the CASW!). Robotic "mules" should also be appearing which can follow platoons and then sections around with extra kit and consumables, the CQ and his troops might simply pack them and send them to find you at your designated location.

 

[ArmyRick]

Will I be able to wear my exoskeleton inside my hover tank?

 

[SeanNewman]

Okaaaaaay, reeling this back in.

Some interesting reading:

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-weapons/combat-proven-militarized-atvs/

Added:

What I had in mind when I started this thread:

Not what I had in mind, but still pretty sweet:

 

[PanaEng]

Last pic: AIRBORNE!
but what would be the drill in case of malfunction? 

cheers,
Frank

 

[SeanNewman]

But what would be the drill in case of malfunction? 

Not sure, but I admire the guy who could pull off a slip while strapped into a vehicle under a chute.

 

[57Chevy]

Last picture says it.
Check this AATV Airborne All Terrain Vehicle from Strong Enterprises (The parachute company with imagination)

 

[Old Sweat]

Not sure, but I admire the guy who could pull off a slip while strapped into a vehicle under a chute.

What about "Prepare for a water landing?"

 

[Kirkhill]

Last picture says it.
Check this AATV Airborne All Terrain Vehicle from Strong Enterprises (The parachute company with imagination)

Drool.... :nod:

Time to re-up.  Bum knees no longer an excuse for not falling out of aeroplanes.

 

[SeanNewman]

Bum knees no longer an excuse for not falling out of aeroplanes.

Not a problem, I'm sure landing while seated on an ATV will still give you plenty of happy memories about your compressed disks and sciatica.

 

[57Chevy]

True, but they do have excellent suspension.
No problems for freefall ;D