Army Reserve Restructuring

[RedFive]

Do you think that changing it to the British Columbia Regiment dishonoured the men who served in the British Columbia Rifles? Or were any others other regiments dishonoured in the amalgamation heavy history of the BCRs?

The history of the Regiment is full of amalgamations, but very few of those units ever fought. The 6th Regiment (Duke of Connaught's Own Rifles) contributed members who fought in South Africa. The 7th, 29th and 102nd Battalions, Canadian Expeditionary Force fought in WW1, and the 28th Canadian Armoured Regiment (British Columbia Regiment) fought in WW2. Members of the BCR(DCO) have supplemented the Reg Force ever since, including suffering wounded in Afghanistan.

To answer your question, no I don't think so because all of those formations feature heavily in our history and tradition. Other aspects, like the garrison artillery and the Irish Fusiliers don't feature much at all. (The Irish Fusiliers were split from us, contributed members to the same CEF battalions we did, and then were placed on the Supp Order of battle only to be re-amalgamated with us)

The next 5-10 years sees the army deploying formed platoons mixed armour and infantry mounted in TAPVs. I think that is the most likely deployment of any formed reserve body. Essentially motorized infantry in the TAPV. To paraphrase @FJAG it’s not great but we have it and need to use it.

As has been discussed a lot on these means, the TAPV is hot garbage, even when you can get them to run. I can assure you in my more than decade of service west of the Rockies, spare parts and basic kit to do our jobs doesn't cross the continental divide. We limp along with LUVW's that are a decade past due. I'm also not sure how we're supposed to do combined ops with unarmed TAPV's but there's a reason I'm not in charge.

I’d rather see those heavy armoured reservists close by usable training areas. But I’m also not expecting to see reserve recruitment quadruple any time soon. @FJAG is again correct that cap badges are secondary, what matters is employing people in a logical manner. It’ll probably piss some people off, that’s a price worth paying most of the time.

Ever been to Yakima? It makes Wainwright look like the Chilcotin training area. Pop-up targets for vehicles and infantry. Multiple run/drive down lanes. Massive expanse of varied terrain types. Ranges sited for all types of weapons systems. Give me a hanger down there with 8 Abrams in it I'll give you max attendance and more recruits than the Regiment knows what to do with.

The Americans would probably be so chuffed we were starting to take defence seriously they've cover a bunch of the cost.

 

[markppcli]

The history of the Regiment is full of amalgamations, but very few of those units ever fought. The 6th Regiment (Duke of Connaught's Own Rifles) contributed members who fought in South Africa. The 7th, 29th and 102nd Battalions, Canadian Expeditionary Force fought in WW1, and the 28th Canadian Armoured Regiment (British Columbia Regiment) fought in WW2. Members of the BCR(DCO) have supplemented the Reg Force ever since, including suffering wounded in Afghanistan.

To answer your question, no I don't think so because all of those formations feature heavily in our history and tradition. Other aspects, like the garrison artillery and the Irish Fusiliers don't feature much at all. (The Irish Fusiliers were split from us, contributed members to the same CEF battalions we did, and then were placed on the Supp Order of battle only to be re-amalgamated with us)

So it’s not actually the history, it’s specific parts of the history, that you deem worthy. The reality is that the history of the British Columbia Regiment has been this:

Over a hundred years of men and women putting their egos aside and doing the job their country needs them to do.

That’s a worthwhile tradition and one to keep in mind.

As has been discussed a lot on these means, the TAPV is hot garbage, even when you can get them to run. I can assure you in my more than decade of service west of the Rockies, spare parts and basic kit to do our jobs doesn't cross the continental divide. We limp along with LUVW's that are a decade past due. I'm also not sure how we're supposed to do combined ops with unarmed TAPV's but there's a reason I'm not in charge.

Well the combined ops will be precisely what was described. It’ll be force protection, local security, ect. I’m well aquainted with parts issues and agree the TAPV is garbage. Unfortunately we bought it, and we are stuck with it. We need to find roles it can… well that it can at least passively do. The parts issue is a contracting one, it’s solvable.

Ever been to Yakima? It makes Wainwright look like the Chilcotin training area. Pop-up targets for vehicles and infantry. Multiple run/drive down lanes. Massive expanse of varied terrain types. Ranges sited for all types of weapons systems. Give me a hanger down there with 8 Abrams in it I'll give you max attendance and more recruits than the Regiment knows what to do with.

So it’s Wainwright lol. If you have done all of that, terrain aside, it’s a lazy ops staff but all of that is possible. I do not like the idea of crossing a border twice a month to train, and frankly I don’t see Canada buying 300 Abrams anytime soon. I’m concerned about what we can do to stream line and work more efficiently with what we have. We have 1500 odd reservists in BC, we don’t need 7 CO / RSMs and UICs and an administrative Bde HQ to make working with them a bigger pain in the ass than it has to be.


Finally even if you did fill out 8 m1a1s that’s half a Sqn, do you need a LT col for that? Or is that the best aspiration we have.. 40 pers for the BCRs.

 

[FJAG]

Ever been to Yakima?

You forgot to mention the rattlesnakes.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I just don’t understand why we need three battalions each of RCR, PPCLI and R22eR. Two could be re-badged Black Watch and Queen’s Own Rifles. I’m sure there are a few other former RegF regiments out there too. Is there a real savings in cap badges?

Actually, the only pure Permanent Force (Reg Force) infantry regiments are The RCR, PPCLI and R22eR (and I guess also The Canadian Guards since they existed only in the Reg Force for less than 20 years). That is if you date it from post Great War (prior to that only The RCR - though the PPCLI and R22eR were raised in war and continued in peace). Other than the iterations of Militia (non-permanent) regiments that were "Special Force" (CEF, CASF. etc) during periods of war, they were always part-time soldiers. It wasn't until the expansion of the Army in 1950 with Korea and NATO that multi battalion regiments (discounting active and non-active battalions that existed during the war years) became the norm. Additional Reg Force regiments only came about after the PANDA approach to manning the NATO brigade proved unworkable for the long term and lead to the Black Watch and QOR being selected as the cap badges under which the 1st (and 2nd) Canadian Highland Battalion and 1st (and 2nd) Canadian Rifle Battalion would have a Reg Force presence. The Canadian Guards were stood up to account for the 1st (and 2nd) Canadian Infantry Battalion.

When the inevitable downsizing happened in 1970s, a typical management approach of "last in - first out" saw the battalions that already had a Militia footprint be eliminated and revert back to their pure reserve presence. They were Regulars for less than twenty years.

 

[FJAG]

Actually, the only pure Permanent Force (Reg Force) infantry regiments are The RCR, PPCLI and R22eR (and I guess also The Canadian Guards since they existed only in the Reg Force for about 20 years). That is if you date it from post Great War (prior to that only The RCR - though the PPCLI and R22eR were raised in war and continued in peace). Other than the iterations of Militia (non-permanent) regiments that were "Special Force" (CEF, CASF. etc) during periods of war, they were always part-time soldiers. It wasn't until the expansion of the Army in 1950 with Korea and NATO that multi battalion regiments (discounting active and non-active battalions that existed during the war years) became the norm. Additional Reg Force regiments only came about after the PANDA approach to manning the NATO brigade proved unworkable for the long term and lead to the Black Watch and QOR being selected as the cap badges under which the 1st (and 2nd) Canadian Highland Battalion and 1st (and 2nd) Canadian Rifle Battalion would have a Reg Force presence. The Canadian Guards were stood up to account for the 1st (and 2nd) Canadian Infantry Battalion.

When the inevitable downsizing happened in 1970s, a typical management approach of "last in - first out" saw the battalions that already had a Militia footprint be eliminated and revert back to their pure reserve presence. They were Regulars for only about twenty years.

Effectively its the same story for the 3 "Regular" regiments.

The RCRs first battalion appeared in 1892, the PPCLI and R22R in 1914. 2nd battalions all made their appearance in name in 1945 and third battalions in 1950 for the RCR and R22R and 1952 for the PPCLI. That assumes that you ignore all the lineage to previous Militia battalions.

IMHO, the 1970 reorganization had more to do with simplifying the regimental structures into three powerhouses than anything else. It was a time of simplifying uniforms and cap badges and unifying and integrating everything that walked and talked. Simplifying 6 regiments into three was simply part of what was going on all around the military. It's a miracle that they didn't create three battalions of the RCD at the time. I can only presume that the armoured corps would have fought the introduction of the term "battalion" into their lexicon.

When you get down to it, these decisions are the result of horse trading and serendipity.

 

[RedFive]

So it’s not actually the history, it’s specific parts of the history, that you deem worthy. The reality is that the history of the British Columbia Regiment has been this:

Over a hundred years of men and women putting their egos aside and doing the job their country needs them to do.

That’s a worthwhile tradition and one to keep in mind.

Yes, the parts where troops went into battle and some didn't come home.

Well the combined ops will be precisely what was described. It’ll be force protection, local security, ect. I’m well aquainted with parts issues and agree the TAPV is garbage. Unfortunately we bought it, and we are stuck with it. We need to find roles it can… well that it can at least passively do. The parts issue is a contracting one, it’s solvable.

Send it to Ukraine, buy something better.

So it’s Wainwright lol. If you have done all of that, terrain aside, it’s a lazy ops staff but all of that is possible. I do not like the idea of crossing a border twice a month to train, and frankly I don’t see Canada buying 300 Abrams anytime soon. I’m concerned about what we can do to stream line and work more efficiently with what we have. We have 1500 odd reservists in BC, we don’t need 7 CO / RSMs and UICs and an administrative Bde HQ to make working with them a bigger pain in the ass than it has to be.

Its closer, a lot easier to sell to my troops. We get much better attendance on a US trip than any other ex. Why? We've bounced off the perimetre fences of our local training areas until we're blue in the face, Chilcotin is too far away for a road move in our decrepit vehicles and the locals hate us because we're the evil federal government who stole their land, and Wainwright is either a very long road move (see above about vehicles) or charter flight away and we waste so much time travelling the training value is almost zero.

I've seen the ranges fully set up at both Wainwright and Yakima, my choice as a participant is definitely Yakima. The Americans spared no expense.

Finally even if you did fill out 8 m1a1s that’s half a Sqn, do you need a LT col for that? Or is that the best aspiration we have.. 40 pers for the BCRs.

We have more than double that. Give us actual armour and the budget to train in the vehicles, we'll field more than half a Sqn. I feel like you've missed my point a little, and we're arguing opposite sides of the same coin here. My position is this:

I'm sick to death of half ass, cut rate crap being dumped on the Army as a whole, and the Reserves specifically. No, we don't need as many LCol's and CWOs as we have. I haven't in 12 years been issued body armour, except to put on an ill fitting expired US surplus vest, toss a grenade (it was a dud), then take it off and hand it to the next guy. My helmet is nearly as old as I am. Ludicrous.

We could, for less than the 2% GDP we're expected to spend anyways, turn my specific unit into a credible force generator of crewmen, and carry this model on to other parts of 3 Div and the CA. Does it need to be Abrams? No. Could we do what used to get done with the Cougars and have a central fleet in Wainwright and fly out there to train? Sure. What platform should we use? Dunno, but it should be off the shelf, and tracked. Preferably American.

Give us an actual Armoured vehicle and mission to accomplish, we will. But I'm all out of positivity when a light, un-armoured utility vehicle I drove back from the Service Battalion that's been "fixed" is DI'ed by a new trooper who is the same age as that vehicle, who tells me literally none of the deficiencies got fixed.

That way I get to keep my precious cap badge and history, the Reg Force gets reserve troops that are actually useful and you can justify my existence and expenditure.

 

[WLSC]

The idea that one needs a LCol or an RSM for a Reserve unit that has a Coy at max strength is ridiculous.

What experience do they get from being a glorified Pl Commander or Platoon WO? Nothing other than sucking more Line Serials into the toilet.

@markppcli makes a valid point that the RCAC if anything need to be consolidated towards the Reg Force bases.

When I talk about units, I talk 600 ish, not current states. Current state is like you said, ridiculus.

ARes RIC or RCAC could be logically decentralised sub-unit. Can it be 2 sqns for the RCAC vs 3 for the RCAC, why not. The point is that if you decentralize the sub-unit by absorbing already weak regiments, you by definition cut the surplus unit CT but keep the troop. If you mixte that with @FJAG, 10/90 or what ever format you keep the ARes foot print, build/rent infra you need it more urgently, and share to love of the RegF everywhere.

We can't keep going like that, it is ridiculous.

 

[BrianWL]

The Royal Scottish Rocky Mountain Highlanders?

I would be open to unit amalgamation like in the UK. There is some creative joining of the names that in itself tells a history of the regiment.

I just don’t understand why we need three battalions each of RCR, PPCLI and R22eR. Two could be re-badged Black Watch and Queen’s Own Rifles. I’m sure there are a few other former RegF regiments out there too. Is there a real savings in cap badges?

Maybe I should stop now.

Patricias for the West, RCR's for Ontario, Vandoos pour Quebec, and find an old Maritime Regiment for the East Coasties.........Regs and Res battalions for each. Can still use former Regimental names for the sub - units as has been done in the UK. For future expansion of the army if we ever have time to expand it again .......... all this CO and RSM stuff is a waste of money, which can be spent far better on training and/or kit.

 

[KevinB]

When I talk about units, I talk 600 ish, not current states. Current state is like you said, ridiculus.

ARes RIC or RCAC could be logically decentralised sub-unit. Can it be 2 sqns for the RCAC vs 3 for the RCAC, why not. The point is that if you decentralize the sub-unit by absorbing already weak regiments, you by definition cut the surplus unit CT but keep the troop. If you mixte that with @FJAG, 10/90 or what ever format you keep the ARes foot print, build/rent infra you need it more urgently, and share to love of the RegF everywhere.

We can't keep going like that, it is ridiculous.

Going to a 30/70, 40/60 and 50/50 mixes for some units means that you never need a PRes LCol or RSM anyway - if one wants to Command a Bn, then join the Regular Force.

The problem with decentralizing the Armor is that they need to be near vases that can house them, and training areas to train with.
If you pull them in close to bases with Reg Force units using LAV's, TAPV (UGH), LEO2 etc then you at least get them the ability to train and work on the equipment.

The idea at this point that the PRes will be Canada's break in case of war force is a farce, as it has no equipment, and getting equipment is going to be harder than training soldiers -- furthermore the PRes cannot be used as viable expansion tool, as they have no experience on equipment that would be needed in a War.

No if the GoC was to flip on its head and buy 600 MBT's, 1200 IFV's, 600SPA etc then I would change my mind - but the likelihood of that occurring is slim to nil...

 

[dapaterson]

That would require a foundational rethink about what needs to be full time and what needs to be part time.

 

[FJAG]

Going to a 30/70, 40/60 and 50/50 mixes for some units means that you never need a PRes LCol or RSM anyway - if one wants to Command a Bn, then join the Regular Force.

Exactly. I cannot see building battalions of 700 people and leaving them in the hands of a reservist. All my models in the above scenario are based on a RegF CO and RSM, the blk of the regt'l HQ staff being RegF and having a full RegF company, as per EIS. Each 10/90 ResF company has a RegF 2 i/c and CQMS. (as an aside these are not the equivalent of RSS as the RSS are absorbed into the battalion. These are RegF members who belong full-time to the battalion and work full-time on battalion training with part-time supervision of their ResF companies.)

The problem with decentralizing the Armor is that they need to be near vases that can house them, and training areas to train with.
If you pull them in close to bases with Reg Force units using LAV's, TAPV (UGH), LEO2 etc then you at least get them the ability to train and work on the equipment.

I tend to agree, but ... then there's southern Ontario. There's a concentration of ResF armour units there and Meaford is a two to three hour drive from London, Toronto and Oshawa. There are four armoured regiments within that distance (five if you extend to Windsor at 5 hours)

You can do most of your basic training using simulators and a squadron of tanks in Meaford for all the other work (live fire is limited - I'm not sure what reduced charge training ammunition is available) But more importantly you can fly the equivalent of three squadrons in one CC-330 to Latvia for two weeks to do all the live-fire and manoeuvre trg you need on prepositioned equipment. IMHO we should have a full armoured regiment in Latvia and use it for training both RegF and ResF year-round in short exercises. We need to get the RCAF acclimatized to flyover as a primary mission.

The idea at this point that the PRes will be Canada's break in case of war force is a farce, as it has no equipment, and getting equipment is going to be harder than training soldiers -- furthermore the PRes cannot be used as viable expansion tool, as they have no experience on equipment that would be needed in a War.

No if the GoC was to flip on its head and buy 600 MBT's, 1200 IFV's, 600SPA etc then I would change my mind - but the likelihood of that occurring is slim to nil...

The key element here is "at this point." We fail completely if we always throw up our hands and say that we can't do "X" at this point and do not try to formulate a plan to get us to the next step.

The first critical question is do we need tanks? If the answer is yes then the question is do we need them every day? If the answer is yes - then RegF man them. If the answer is no, then ResF man many of them and develop the system to do that well.

Do we need 600 MBTs. I highly doubt it, but I can see us reasonably needing 200 MBTs and 400 IFVs and 100 SPs to equip 1 proper mech division. We have enough LAVs and light infantry and 1/2 the towed guns for an additional infantry division.

That's all we can reasonably expect to put together with the required support troops and IMHO wouldn't break the bank for equipment.

The important thing is to change the culture to be able to make this happen. If we were to solely focus on the force structure and equipment needs then the current culture would demand another 15,000 RegF people to man it and the concomitant multi-billion dollar annual cost. That's a non starter.

IMHO waiting for the government to commit to the equipment is a cop out that the army relies on to stay with the status quo. The army should train and organize its total force so as to maximize its potential with the equipment and manpower and budget it currently has. Concurrently it should plan on the next bound for the transformation plan. The status quo falls far short of that. It should no longer be tolerated.

That would require a foundational rethink about what needs to be full time and what needs to be part time.

Abso-freaking-lutely!!!

 

[markppcli]

Yes, the parts where troops went into battle and some didn't come home.

Unless they went to battle as Irish Regiment, or British Columbia Rifles right? Those are okay to amalgamate.

Send it to Ukraine, buy something better.

Firstly, who’s side are you on?

Secondly, we both know that’s not going to happen. We’re stuck with the TAPV and frankly infantry mobility is one of the few jobs it probably can do.

Its closer, a lot easier to sell to my troops. We get much better attendance on a US trip than any other ex. Why? We've bounced off the perimetre fences of our local training areas until we're blue in the face, Chilcotin is too far away for a road move in our decrepit vehicles and the locals hate us because we're the evil federal government who stole their land, and Wainwright is either a very long road move (see above about vehicles) or charter flight away and we waste so much time travelling the training value is almost zero.

I've seen the ranges fully set up at both Wainwright and Yakima, my choice as a participant is definitely Yakima. The Americans spared no expense.

Well now you’ve moved the goal posts. I fully understand that Yakima is more appealing to guys in BC, everyone wants to go somewhere different and it’s much larger than what you have available. It’s just not without massive complications.

Chief amoung them is who’s fixing these tanks I. Yakima. Experience tells us at least 2 will be in the shop at any given time. So are we posting people there? Who’s doing crew maintenance? Are guys coming down on the weekend to pound tracks?

We have more than double that. Give us actual armour and the budget to train in the vehicles, we'll field more than half a Sqn. I feel like you've missed my point a little, and we're arguing opposite sides of the same coin here.

More than double that is still a Sqn.

My position is this:

I'm sick to death of half ass, cut rate crap being dumped on the Army as a whole, and the Reserves specifically. No, we don't need as many LCol's and CWOs as we have. I haven't in 12 years been issued body armour, except to put on an ill fitting expired US surplus vest, toss a grenade (it was a dud), then take it off and hand it to the next guy. My helmet is nearly as old as I am. Ludicrous.

We could, for less than the 2% GDP we're expected to spend anyways, turn my specific unit into a credible force generator of crewmen, and carry this model on to other parts of 3 Div and the CA. Does it need to be Abrams? No. Could we do what used to get done with the Cougars and have a central fleet in Wainwright and fly out there to train? Sure. What platform should we use? Dunno, but it should be off the shelf, and tracked. Preferably American.

Give us an actual Armoured vehicle and mission to accomplish, we will. But I'm all out of positivity when a light, un-armoured utility vehicle I drove back from the Service Battalion that's been "fixed" is DI'ed by a new trooper who is the same age as that vehicle, who tells me literally none of the deficiencies got fixed.

That way I get to keep my precious cap badge and history, the Reg Force gets reserve troops that are actually useful and you can justify my existence and expenditure.

My point is this: no one is going to procure 200-300 tanks for Canada. Even if we did I’d doubt seriously they’d issue them to the reserves. We have what we have, and we’ll go to war with what we have. We need to organize what we have into something that can be credible, makes sense, and can be task oriented.

Could the BCRs force generate crew for tanks? Maybe. What they can actually do right now is help generate these formed reserve platoons / troops for deployments. Especially if they blend with the rest of the geographically located units around them.

Waiting on multi billion dollar purchases to make a unit viable is like me waiting to get drafted to the NFL at 37. Sure I can dream, but it’s not buying me a house.

How have you not worn body armour in 12 years? It’s issued on every deployment.

 

[WLSC]

Going to a 30/70, 40/60 and 50/50 mixes for some units means that you never need a PRes LCol or RSM anyway - if one wants to Command a Bn, then join the Regular Force.

If you do that, you’ll kill retention. Not all but some can do the job. Don’t under estimate the power of possibility for advancement.

The problem with decentralizing the Armor is that they need to be near vases that can house them, and training areas to train with.
If you pull them in close to bases with Reg Force units using LAV's, TAPV (UGH), LEO2 etc then you at least get them the ability to train and work on the equipment.

If it’s practical why not. ARes can’t always have wall to wall solutions. It need to be aligned based on each Div.

idea at this point that the PRes will be Canada's break in case of war force is a farce, as it has no equipment, and getting equipment is going to be harder than training soldiers -- furthermore the PRes cannot be used as viable expansion tool, as they have no experience on equipment that would be needed in a War.

No if the GoC was to flip on its head and buy 600 MBT's, 1200 IFV's, 600SPA etc then I would change my mind - but the likelihood of that occurring is slim to nil...

I agree, nothing of that will happened willingly from GoC. That’s why I usually don’t get hard on ÇA/ARes restructuring threads. It will arrived only if all our allies get together and hurt us, big time.

On the other hand, brainstorming is always good, once and a while

 

[FJAG]

My point is this: no one is going to procure 200-300 tanks for Canada. Even if we did I’d doubt seriously they’d issue them to the reserves.

You see that this clearly confirms my position on current culture stated above. The trouble is you are absolutely right even though the the likelihood of needing to deploy tanks or artillery is in the category of some day and not every day. That means there need to be just enough full-timers to develop skills, have a degree of career progression, write the doctrine and TTPs, maintain the critters and train a large number of reservists in their use.

Equipment for some contingent event in the future is exactly that which should be part-time manned. However, as long as the RegF manages to keep hold of all the good toys (Bison enters the chat) the ResF will never progress.

 

[WLSC]

Exactly. I cannot see building battalions of 700 people and leaving them in the hands of a reservist.

I can and I know some who could do it. Not all but some.

 

[MilEME09]

You see that this clearly confirms my position on current culture stated above. The trouble is you are absolutely right even though the the likelihood of needing to deploy tanks or artillery is in the category of some day and not every day. That means there need to be just enough full-timers to develop skills, have a degree of career progression, write the doctrine and TTPs, maintain the critters and train a large number of reservists in their use.

Equipment for some contingent event in the future is exactly that which should be part-time manned. However, as long as the RegF manages to keep hold of all the good toys (Bison enters the chat) the ResF will never progress.

We really need someone high enough up to put their foot down and end the reg vs ARes fight and essentially marry a ARes unit to their reg force counter part, then tell the CO "your goal is to get them built up to X" then have a auditing team go to validation exercises to confirm if the unit meets the objectives given. If not, unit fails, CO fails, try again next year but don't expect that promotion to brigade commander now.

 

[FJAG]

If you do that, you’ll kill retention. Not all but some can do the job. Don’t under estimate the power of possibility for advancement.

My guess is we might lose a few officers and Snr NCMs over this issue but I wouldn't consider it a big loss. Most of the rank and file would be quite happy to be in a properly organized unit even if their career opportunities are primarily capped at OC and CSM.

I can and I know some who could do it. Not all but some.

If a good ResF major has taken all of the qualifications to be a LCol and gained sufficient experience and was to commit to a full-time two-year tour as CO - absolutely bring him on.

The dividing line between those who you see as able to do it and the ones that I want is those who are capable of leading their battalion in a peer-on-peer battle.

I'm quite sure given the right support structure that there are several ResF LCols who could provide the administrative leadership for a full-sized ResF battalion. Most of the COs that I've come in contact with are putting in in excess of 50 days Class A each year just managing the band kit fund and the PERs for a half dozen officers and the annual ball and providing zero leadership to the 60 some odd folks on the parade square. Running 700 is not a part-time job even in peacetime. That still doesn't solve the experience needed to convert that to war-time leadership

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'm quite sure given the right support structure that there are several ResF LCols who could provide the administrative leadership for a full-sized ResF battalion. Most of the COs that I've come in contact with are putting in in excess of 50 days Class A each year just managing the band kit fund and the PERs for a half dozen officers and the annual ball and providing zero leadership to the 60 some odd folks on the parade square. Running 700 is not a part-time job even in peacetime. That still doesn't solve the experience needed to convert that to war-time leadership

CO stands for "Combats Optional" in too many cases, sadly.

YMMV, but there is little to no expectation that COs spend time in the field with their troops, and I saw many who lived down to that expectation

 

[markppcli]

You see that this clearly confirms my position on current culture stated above. The trouble is you are absolutely right even though the the likelihood of needing to deploy tanks or artillery is in the category of some day and not every day. That means there need to be just enough full-timers to develop skills, have a degree of career progression, write the doctrine and TTPs, maintain the critters and train a large number of reservists in their use.

Equipment for some contingent event in the future is exactly that which should be part-time manned. However, as long as the RegF manages to keep hold of all the good toys (Bison enters the chat) the ResF will never progress.

Even if I did think it was a possibility, I’d probably have those tanks in the prairies and maybe Gagetown / Pet.

 

[KevinB]

I tend to agree, but ... then there's southern Ontario. There's a concentration of ResF armour units there and Meaford is a two to three hour drive from London, Toronto and Oshawa. There are four armoured regiments within that distance (five if you extend to Windsor at 5 hours)

And what can one do these days in Meaford? Not shoot 105mm or 25mm...
To me that means those 4 "Armoured" "Regiments" are really just potentially 4 Inf Platoons --
Move one of the Petawawa Inf Bn's to Meaford - and that's your 30/70 unit. Heck if you can find a way to use LAV's there, then maybe the former "Armour" reservists can be crew on a LAV...

You can do most of your basic training using simulators and a squadron of tanks in Meaford for all the other work (live fire is limited - I'm not sure what reduced charge training ammunition is available) But more importantly you can fly the equivalent of three squadrons in one CC-330 to Latvia for two weeks to do all the live-fire and manoeuvre trg you need on prepositioned equipment. IMHO we should have a full armoured regiment in Latvia and use it for training both RegF and ResF year-round in short exercises. We need to get the RCAF acclimatized to flyover as a primary mission.

Honestly I would put all the tanks in Latvia, and run PCF's and Training over there - have some Sim's back in Canada, but realistically there isn't a role for Armour in Canada (other than training).

The key element here is "at this point." We fail completely if we always throw up our hands and say that we can't do "X" at this point and do not try to formulate a plan to get us to the next step.

The first critical question is do we need tanks? If the answer is yes then the question is do we need them every day? If the answer is yes - then RegF man them. If the answer is no, then ResF man many of them and develop the system to do that well.

Do we need 600 MBTs. I highly doubt it, but I can see us reasonably needing 200 MBTs and 400 IFVs and 100 SPs to equip 1 proper mech division. We have enough LAVs and light infantry and 1/2 the towed guns for an additional infantry division.

I have 427 Abrams as the book answer for an Armored Div, and 87 Abrams, 152 M2 Bradley and 18 M109 for an ABCT.
so I erred on the side of extra Warstock (yes Canada it is still a thing)...

That's all we can reasonably expect to put together with the required support troops and IMHO wouldn't break the bank for equipment.

I don't disagree, but I would still double the equipment to have some redundancy.

The important thing is to change the culture to be able to make this happen. If we were to solely focus on the force structure and equipment needs then the current culture would demand another 15,000 RegF people to man it and the concomitant multi-billion dollar annual cost. That's a non starter.

It isn't just the Culture - the entire Concept of the CA needs to be reborn, given the efforts both Reg and Res have put in to scuttling any meaningful change - there needs to be a mass culling of both.

IMHO waiting for the government to commit to the equipment is a cop out that the army relies on to stay with the status quo. The army should train and organize its total force so as to maximize its potential with the equipment and manpower and budget it currently has.

What equipment and personnel?
Right now one can equip a Bde plus - and still be missing a number of required platforms. Honestly the CAF probably should just disband the PRes and 2/3 of the Regular Force Army...

Concurrently it should plan on the next bound for the transformation plan. The status quo falls far short of that. It should no longer be tolerated.

Keep waiting for the Light Forces Working Group to come up with something in the 2+ Decades of effort...