Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)

[upandatom]

did the the Job Specs change much? do you think this is going to help or hinder spec pay? I've seen a lot of rejections for spec pay over the last 3 years...................

As an LCIS that went CST and now to ATIS,

No the job required of an LCIS that should of been funnelled into the CST Sub occ, job hasnt changed at all.

The techs are still expected to do the same, and in turn, the new CSTs coming in, are expected to know and do the same- with less training, alot less. In turn the new CSTs are looking like shit pumps, and the more senior CST are having to babysit.

I was still expected to know Server Admin, Router and witch Programming, PC repair, VoIP, Satcomm, Radar, Radio theory, component level fault finding, infrastructure and TCCCs install, testing fault finding. Dependant on where I was in my unit I would have to do any one of those.

if you read farther up the thread, you have CST with no spec pay, working beside ATIS techs with Spec Pay.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

So basically, here's a run down

They rewrote the TP and Job Specs,

Which, in turn will kill the Spec pay once again..... Therefore it will have to go before the board again.

How is that expected to improve retention and or make people happy? Once again, you are taking money that was Earned from people that worked and studied for it. Yes the Job name changed, They are still doing the same thing, regardless if you call CST, LCIS or Plug and Play tech. They spent time learning the ins and outs, doing POET, 3s and 5s. They do the exact same thing, no change from before the MES hammer came down.

The LCIS techs, they signed with the confirmation that upon completion of BASIC, SQ, POET, QL3 and QL5 that they would be receiving Spec pay, that is the agreement, the contract, and in some cases the reason why they signed under that occupation. Pay scales, rates, should not of been touched for those with those qualifications and skills.

What is this three years now???


And the LST case??

I have worked with MANY Lineman, some great lineman, some absolute bag of hammers. majority are good people, good hard workers, even harder drinkers. Some, don't know their own trade and why standards exist. (its the same on both ends, so it will work...yes that has happened, or they cant even understand the BICs Panels numbering, that has happened as well)

You can teach basic line capability to people, but don't expect them to be geniuses at it. The way some have posted here is the fact that an ACISS member should be able to do any job. Wrong. they can do a bare minimum and have a general idea of what each sub occ does, and the number to call that sub occ det in and have it sorted.

As for the Server room comment,
I see IST/Sig ops doing that more then lineman, its laziness if the lines are all newfied and tangled in there. That is a personell problem, not an installation problem.

The only thing I have seen change is the name of the trade,

What is this, the new news on spec pay? So basically the word is, no word for another 2 years?

 

[PuckChaser]

What is this, the new news on spec pay? So basically the word is, no word for another 2 years?

He's ATIS now, and out of the MES loop. I would count everything as just rants or outdated information. There's been nothing officially stated yay/nay/wait out in months.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

He's ATIS now, and out of the MES loop. I would count everything as just rants or outdated information. There's been nothing officially stated yay/nay/wait out in months.

In his defence, I don't think many are "in the MES loop". I'm ex Sig Op so it's not a big effect to me, but I have former LCIS that are waiting around looking for an answer for the past 3 years and we've got nothing out of those in the know. It's disgraceful. At least 2 years ago they would pick an abitrary time (answer in July) and then when July came around they'd set another arbitrary time. Gave the semblence that they are doing something. Now it just seems like it's forgotten about since it won't benefit the 10 MWOs and CWOs that are the only ones who have any idea what is going on.

 

[PuckChaser]

I completely agree, the Branch has handled this whole mess in a disgusting manner, and has destroyed the trust a lot of Signallers have in their senior Branch leaders to look out for them. Nobody is looking for a weekly update, but every couple months someone important to say this is where the process is, would be awesome.

 

[upandatom]

He's ATIS now, and out of the MES loop. I would count everything as just rants or outdated information. There's been nothing officially stated yay/nay/wait out in months.

I may be atis now, but still very in the loop. If they think because I changed trades I'm not getting my spec pay for 2.5 years in that rank they are severely mistaken.

 

[Jom]

Is there anywhere online or on the DIN that we can get information about what's currently going on? I'm tired of being in the dark about everything. this forum shouldn't be the ONLY place i can get information

 

[JBP]

Is there anywhere online or on the DIN that we can get information about what's currently going on? I'm tired of being in the dark about everything. this forum shouldn't be the ONLY place i can get information

There was a site that showed the decision of PLARs and reviews etc but I haven't checked on it in some time... I'll see if I can dig up the link for it. It's just a sharepoint site that was originally announced when the trade change first happened.

 

[PiperDown]

That sharepoint site has not been updated in a couple years.  This entire thing is a train wreck.

 

[c_canuk]

It's not a train wreck from the army's point of view.

Think of it from their perspective, as we gradually spiral into the ground to eventually crash down with all hands lost, the rest of the CF will learn how to do business without us.

All the sub occs will be done by contractors, and the core will be handled in house.

Sure the CF's Comms capabilities will be severely reduced to the bare minimum required to function, but it will happen so gradually that no one will notice enough to care.

Through our own organizations actions and self licking icecream cone syndrome, Sigs will eventually disappear without even a whimper and no one will care as the sheer amount of red tape and bureaucracy we bring to the table will be gone.

We'll still have a Signals branch, but it will be staffed with Officers exclusively because they will need to direct the contractors and have O Groups to be ignored at by those they are supposed to be advising.

Hopefully I'll all be out by the time this transformation is complete.

 

[C/S 0]

It's not a train wreck from the army's point of view.

Think of it from their perspective, as we gradually spiral into the ground to eventually crash down with all hands lost, the rest of the CF will learn how to do business without us.

All the sub occs will be done by contractors, and the core will be handled in house.

Sure the CF's Comms capabilities will be severely reduced to the bare minimum required to function, but it will happen so gradually that no one will notice enough to care.

Through our own organizations actions and self licking icecream cone syndrome, Sigs will eventually disappear without even a whimper and no one will care as the sheer amount of red tape and bureaucracy we bring to the table will be gone.

We'll still have a Signals branch, but it will be staffed with Officers exclusively because they will need to direct the contractors and have O Groups to be ignored at by those they are supposed to be advising.

Hopefully I'll all be out by the time this transformation is complete

Over my ******* dead body

 

[JBP]

ACISS training scheme is not working, therefore a new plan:

Ptes comes off basic goes to CFSCE and completes DP1.0 Common and is granted XXXX qual which states VHF Det Mbr under supervision.

They go to their new units, strong recommendation that it is a HQ & Sigs Sqn, there they complete the new ACISS Common 1.1, yes once again ACISS Common 1.1

ACISS Common 1.1 is divided into MODs. MODs 1-6 Essential that all members (future Core, IST, LST, CST) must do, part DL part OJT.  These Essential Mods will have their own XXXX qual which is required before going on the DP2.  Don't remember what all the mods are but included are basic skills that Battleview, Understanding crypto devices, etc.

Then there are Mods 7 - 13 which are considered supplemental, however everybody can do them for PD, but if you want to be ACISS CORE (frig ya) you have to complete these Mods.  These mods will also have their own XXXX qual and are a pre-req for going on the ACISS CORE 2.1.  Once again some are hands on and some are DL.  For some of the older guys remember the old QL4.  Some of thre Mods are HF, Multiband Radio, HPW, intro to SAT Comms, etc.

Now you also have Mods 14,15,16 which will be pre-reqs for IST/CST/LST 1.1.

So, if you want to be an IST you can do Mod 14 (or what ever it is) 'Helpdesk', pass it you are on the road to IST
So, if you want to be an CST you can do Mod 15 (or what ever it is) 'AC/DC Math', pass it you are on the road to CST
So, if you want to be a kick *** 052 you can do Mod 16 (or what ever it is) Not afraid of heights, pass it you are on the road to LST.

There is still a 2.0 Common but here is the thing.  The above plan comes from writing boards that were conducted in the spring.  IST/CST/LST also had writing boards.  The result of these writing boards was that training for sub-ocups/Core will start sooner.  So stuff that was taught at the 2.1 is being push down to the 1.1 level.  So although you may have to do a 'Sig Op Det Comdr Refresher' ie 2.0, once people complete their 1.1 they are going to be stovepipe into their sub-ocup IST/CST/LST/CORE.

These writing boards are complete and now the results and TPs authorization is in the hands of CTC Gagetown.  Time line is the fall.

ACISS CORE 2.1 was also redesigned.

Here is the way I think it is going to go

Pte A, B, C complete their DP1 Common posted to HQ & Sigs.

They are place in the DP1.1 Common training pool, they all complete their 1.1 Common essential.
Pte A likes computers so he decides to do the Help Desk Mod, natural at it.
Pte B not sure what he/she wants so they do a few Supplemental Mods, doesn't like the radio stuff but wants to try the line side of the house, does the pre-qual mod and can climb a pole without fear of heights, wants to be a linemen.
Pte C likes being in a Radio/Sig Crew, does the supplemental mods to have the qual to go on the 2.1.

No problem for Pte C but what about Pte A and B how do they become IST/Line.

Where I see the selection process going
-Mbrs complete 1.1 Essential
-For those that want to go to the sub-ocups they do the pre-reqs, if they pass they are candidates.
-A selection board is conducted and the following is considered: Their desire trade, the results from the DP 1.0 and DP 1.1 essential, How they did on the pre-reqs, if working in that section doing OJT how they did, recommendations by supr and of course THE RQUIREMENTS AND GOOD OF THE SERVICE.  You signed the dotted line for three years 'Harden the frig Up'.

The most important factor and responsibilities lies with the leadership MCPL and up.  We need to re-establish that MCpl Rank as a real leadership rank and stress that the devolpment of their det mbrs starts with them.  It is a great responsibility.  The MCpls have to be supported  and developed into leaders by the SNR NCOs.  Some hard decisions are going to have to be made on who goes where and who becomes what, there has to be a process that is fair, review when necessary and even sometimes a gut decision has to be made.

On a another note it looks like CISTM will be place on hold for ten years until the real first ACISS ptes get up to the rank for Sgts/WOs.  In the mean time those pers that progress to positions like FOS, LMF, CCO will be loaded on courses like ASP and ATWOC.

This fall there is a plan for review to look at and rewrite TPs for the DP 3.0, 3.1 and 4A.0

Yes when ACISS started it did not work out how it was envision on the drawing board.  The leadership has come to the realization (hard realization for some people I am sure) that it is not working.  This is an attempt to improve things, is it the 100% solution?  I don't know, is it going to work, I don't know.  i hope though that those in positions of responsibility and authority will buy-in and try to make it work.  If it works great, if not then we will try and fix again and hopefully keep on speaking up and making it better.

cheers

I was very glad when I read this for one reason... Higher is at least aware there is a problem! It's good something is being done about it also. I think it's a step in the right direction at least from an IST stand point. Over the past and current APS I've watched IST or those in IST jobs roll out of the Forces at 2 different units at a not-slow rate and the replacement pers we're getting are... Well, either brand-new and unskilled or, we don't get a replacement as is the case right now.

At my unit and even in my section, we're critically down in numbers. We've lost people from postings and releases and have only had 1 backfill. The army makes do, we can deal with missing hands - more work for those left. The only problem I see with the new plan (units train pers directly) is that we don't have time and/or resources. I'm at a large unit (the CFJSR) so I'm sure resources won't be too much of an issue but time sure as hell will be! We have an extremely busy fall and even busier new year coming and people are literally going to have to hit the ground running with keyboards and servers under arm! Never mind training on top of that... I've been told apparently this is the way things were back in the day before my time in the military... Did it work out then?! I'm guessing they changed it to a centralized training location (CFSCE) for standardization and quality control so why screw with it now?

Furthermore, does anyone know what we're suppose to do with that MEMS portion in Monitor Mass? I know position numbers/names are all messed up hence people stopped even looking at it. For example, I'm an ACISS-IST MCpl but I'm listed in Monitor Mass in a MCpl Core position so I cannot 'career plan' the way ahead as it's stuck all in Core jobs/roles. Is this being fixed/addressed? I've heard that this is partially the reason a lot of people haven't been getting courses etc... Anyone in the know on the MEMS/Monitor Mass issues?

 

[PuckChaser]

From what I've seen the MEMS part of MonitorMass is pretty useless. The position number you have has little bearing on where you're employed currently, especially in a big unit like JSR where lots of lateral moves are possible. Your position might not have even been converted to ACISS-speak yet, and they just renamed an old SigOp position as ACISS-Core and dumped you in there just to get a warm body in the unit.

 

[Jom]

any updates?

 

[JBP]

any updates?

There hasn't been an 'official' update since last year when the career managers made their rounds... Probably won't be an update until the career managers come back around again in Dec 14 / Jan 15?

And it will probably be very similar to the last update... Trust me, I'll post an update here as soon as I hear something. Especially if it's worth mentioning!

 

[c_canuk]

Over my ******* dead body

If sigs doesn't get its act together, the army isn't going to wait for us; they will figure out how to do business without and around us. No one is irreplaceable. The rest of the CF doesn’t care about our internal problems, all they care about is can we deliver X by Y date, if the answer is no, they’ll find a solution. If the answer is no too often, they’ll find an alternate source.

That's a simple fact of life with the CF. The longer we flounder around trying to figure out how we're going to do business, the less relevant we'll be to the rest of the CF as they adapt to overcome our current short comings.

They will move forward regardless of if we keep up or not. Sigs as an organization has been seen as a speed bump long before MES, I cringe at the thought of what they think of it now.

 

[yesican]

I am an OT, this seemed the most relevant there to post my question.
Where can I get course information; ie dates. If you know pm me the answer, else please disregard.

Thank you.

 

[PuckChaser]

CFSCE has a course calendar on DWAN, you'll find every course with dates and min/max load there.  cfsce.kingston.mil.ca

 

[yesican]

CFSCE has a course calendar on DWAN, you'll find every course with dates and min/max load there.  cfsce.kingston.mil.ca

Thank you

 

[JBP]

There hasn't been an 'official' update since last year when the career managers made their rounds... Probably won't be an update until the career managers come back around again in Dec 14 / Jan 15?

And it will probably be very similar to the last update... Trust me, I'll post an update here as soon as I hear something. Especially if it's worth mentioning!

Sticking true to my word... It's not much of an update but it's something... No, this was not written or has not come from ME, it came from a CWO in Ottawa in regards to a Signal Corps update email. Sort of a 'state of the Corps' vice state of the Nation...

This was directly copied & pasted out of an email I received on DWAN vice names/recipients, no pack drill!

a. Dress:

(1) The new DEU RCCS pins should be in stock at your local supply (SC 20-008-3651 INS. SHOULDER STRAP, RCCS, GOLD PLATED METAL, PAIR and 20-008-3653 for CTRC).  If your local supply does not have them in stock, please pass these SC to them as they should be at the depot;

(2) The high visibility CADPAT rank will come with Canada on them; however the supply system should have the RCCS/CTRC tabs which can be sewn over them (my apologies for
any confusion this may have caused); 

(3) NCM DEU slips on with RCCS/CTRC must be purchased at the museum ($5.50).  I would recommend kit shops to contact Mr Postill for a bulk order.  In addition, he has additional RCCS/CTRC brass shoulder pins at a cost of $13.50 a pair;

(4) Officer DEU slip  ons have been ordered with a suspected delivery date of 17 Oct 14; and

(5) No one is to utilize the RCCS/CTRC (less the 5 who received their pins directly from HRH) until further notice.  Intent is to start wearing RCCS/CTRC at the same time as the Signal Officers adopt the pips and crowns.


b. CISTM – we are still moving forward with the stove piping for sub-occs to the rank of MWO.  This process will take some time to resolve so in the meantime we will hold merit boards in the fol manner:

(1) ACISS – Pte to CWO;

(2) CST –Pte to Sgt; 

(3) IST – Pte to Sgt;

(4) LST – Pte to MWO; and

(5) CST/IST WO to MWO (we are working on defining positions by sub-occ which will eliminate a combined board in the future).

(6) A/CCO –as this trade currently falls under CISTM, we are mandated to run a separate board.  If CISTM is removed, CCO will fall under ACISS Core.

(7) IAW ref, if you do not have a valid physical fitness or medical excusal, your file will be removed from the board.

c. Spec Pay – We are confident that decisions on spec pay will be forthcoming over the next couple of months.

d. Back Pay – The decision on back pay will be made once the assignment of the ACCIS sub-occupations to trade groups is complete.  Dir RCCS, the MES team and I are working with CMP and other stakeholders to argue the case in support of those who have been affected most by the pay freeze and to ensure that the senior leaders making the decisions have all of the relevant facts with which to make them.

e. Succession Planning – In November, the RSCWO and I will gather to review all MWO files.  I am hoping by now that you have all been contacted.  If you have not, please contact your RSCWO.  If you do not have a valid physical fitness or medical excusal, your file will be removed from the board.


2. Finalement, j’espère que ce message vous rejoigne tous et je vous souhaite une agréable semaine.

I, in all honestly still do not believe anyone in the Sigs branch will receive Spec pay. That's just my personal opinion and I hope to be wrong... Some people may be able to figure out the source of this message but it's from much much higher than anyone at my rank level...