Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)

[Danke]

If you want to be a computer admin, you want to be an IST which is a subtrade of ACISS. You'll get some tech training on your DP1, us old SigOps learned to do it through experience. French courses are offered, you'd be hard pressed to learn anything else through DND unless you're getting an embassy posting where you'll need it (few and far between).

Sorry, when I said I "preferred deployment to Computer Administration duties", I meant that I prefer to be deployed instead of getting Computer Admin duties. It sounded right in my head, but the "to" kind of made it ambiguous.

Glad I'll be fluent in French. Guess I'll stick to private courses for everything else.

 

[PuckChaser]

Gotcha, now you know what sub occupation not to go to.  ;D

 

[Danke]

Gotcha, now you know what sub occupation not to go to.  ;D

From earlier in the thread:
CST- Communication System Technologist
IST - Information Systems Technologist
LST - Line Systems Technologist

So IST is the LCIS spec, LST is the Linseman spec, and CST is the equivalent of SigOp?

Also, why is SigOp having such trouble with recruitment? Is it a matter of pay, or high demand in the Private sector stealing away recruits, or is it the job itself? EDIT: I ask because I really have no desire to return to the private sector, and don't care about the pay. I've always felt money was a poor way to judge personal worth.

Thanks for the help.

 

[PuckChaser]

CST = LCIS to fix everything but computers
LST = Linemen
IST = New idea, computer jobs of sigop and LCIS combined
ACISS Core = SigOp

SigOp has been undermanned for quite some time, as has LCIS. LCIS guys get private sector/public sector jobs fairly easily. SigOps have to be trained to do damn near everything, but don't get paid that way. Half the guys are qualified CISCO admins but can't get spec pay. Line is also moving into a more technical areas and would have need a look at spec to keep them competitive with the private sector in a few years, but they're attractive to Combat Arms remusters that want physical work but have a truck to take them everywhere. You could debate for hours why the SigOp trade isn't attractive to recruits (the total lack of accurate information in the recruiting system is my bet).

 

[chrisf]

I can't see them making spec pay for LST, IST, or ACISS Core... don't get me wrong, if they did, that would be great, but, while an CST (LCIS) tech can leave the forces and easily make as much or more than they make in the forces, telecom linemen don't make great money civi side, neither does your computer tinkering type (There's far too many of them floating around as a result of the tech boom in the 90s).

There's also very little employability civi side for the skills of an ACISS Core.

Like I pointed out in another thread, spec pay has very little to do with specialization (No matter how much "they" may claim otherwise). If you can quit your job tommorow and easily make as much or more than you do in the forces, then you get spec pay.

 

[LineJumper]

telecom linemen don't make great money civi side,

You are consistently inaccurate. Civi side for line is quite lucrative. I have had no offers below $35/hr in all areas CF Lineman are trained. Coupled with my RCDD, it would be damn near impossible to not demand 6 figures. The only pain was taking my BICSI quals in Vegas and Florida, Oh FML.  ;D

 

[chrisf]

You are consistently inaccurate. Civi side for line is quite lucrative. I have had no offers below $35/hr in all areas CF Lineman are trained. Coupled with my RCDD, it would be damn near impossible to not demand 6 figures. The only pain was taking my BICSI quals in Vegas and Florida, Oh FML.  ;D

I always stand to be corrected. That being said, the majority of civi telecom linemen I know are making $13-15 per hour.

I had to look up RCDD, wasn't familiar with the acronym, is that about a technologist level designation?

 

[Sigger]

Where else can you find a guy/girl that builds towers and antenna, maintains them, designs and constructs heavy cable infrastructure (pole line, buried & underground), as well as does multi-pair copper splicing, fibre optic splicing and termination and to top it off does PBX frame work, coaxial install/testing and horizontal structure wiring design, install and QA?  I do understand that just one of those jobs may not be high paying (RCDD or design qualified individuals actually can pull down a bit of coin), but when you lump them together with the aforementioned increasing responsibilities you get something completely different.

Tell that to my boss... All that is exactly what I do now.. all for $14/hr.

I have not yet met a civvi Telecom lineman who makes anywhere near $35.

 

[Sigger]

Point taken. As I am in Ontario, and only know a few civvy linemen in other parts of Canada.

However, it was not my objective to discuss job options, or what I do as a civvy lineman(a job I am not fond of[SigOp at heart]).

 

[Rheostatic]

I don't know if they're even running anymore old QL6A courses, everything was supposed to be ACISS as of 1 Jan.

The CFSCE calendar for FY 10/11 shows two more intakes this spring.

 

[REDinstaller]

The CMs also said it would be 3-5 years until all changes are implemented. So stand by to stand by.

 

[C/S 0]

Today the CFSCE Comdt briefed the first two ACISS DP1 courses on ACISS and took questions.

Points of Interest:

1. The proposal for Spec pay that went to the Treasury Board was for the three sub-trades: LST, IST and CST.  ACISS Core was not recommended for Spec Pay.

2.  As far as the comdt knows that when a member of the sub-trades are promoted to WO and go back to the Core Trade they keep their Spec Pay.  The Comdt is going to look into it.

A earlier poster was asking about the wait for DP1 (ie old QL3).  The wait will now be shorter.  We are going to Run 16 ACISS DP1 courses this year with a total of 24 per a course. That's 384 openings.  So things should go a little bit faster.

 

[REDinstaller]

Today the CFSCE Comdt briefed the first two ACISS DP1 courses on ACISS and took questions.

Points of Interest:

1. The proposal for Spec pay that went to the Treasury Board was for the three sub-trades: LCT, IST and CST.  ACISS Core was not recommended for Spec Pay.

2.  As far as the comdt knows that when a member of the sub-trades are promoted to WO and go back to the Core Trade they keep their Spec Pay.  The Comdt is going to look into it.

1. What a surprise....not. The core trade has no specialised training at this point. Until it can prove that spec pay is required, Treasury Board will always say NO.

2. This is a no brainer, the member once promoted to WO hasn't become brain dead. His training to gain Spec pay is still relevant.

 

[Sig_Des]

1. What a surprise....not. The core trade has no specialised training at this point. Until it can prove that spec pay is required, Treasury Board will always say NO.

Now I really hope you guys lose yours

 

[C/S 0]

"1. What a surprise....not"

- Of Course but this is the first time that someone high in the chail command I have heard said no spec pay for ACISS Core.

Spec pay for the three sub trades has NOT YET been approved.

The list for ACISS is out for who is suppose to be IST and ACISS Core with a link to have the decision made on you reviewed. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Now I really hope you guys lose yours

Seconded, with all of the extra courses that need to be taken for Core persons to be relevant in the trade that aren't included in the DP packages, everyone should be getting spec. My OT will be the first in the pile if LST gets spec pay along with CST and IST but not Core occupation.

 

[C/S 0]

"2. This is a no brainer, the member once promoted to WO hasn't become brain dead. His training to gain Spec pay is still relevant."

I think the problem with above is that yes if a CST/LST/IST moves on into a CISTM position then by all means he is doing a tech job and should get tech pay.  However lets say for an example that Sgt ACISS and Sgt IST both get promoted to WO. They both are in charge of Sigs Troops, one with RCDs and one with RCRs.  They are both doing the same job and are the SME to the Sig O and Battalion/Regiment Commander.  Except the IST WO has Spec pay and the ACISS Core WO doesn't.

WE are back to the same problem we have now with Sigs Ops that are in LAN Dets and IS positions that don't get Spec pay and the LCIS in the same positions, doing the same job do.

As Puck Chaser just said, I think you are going to see a lot of remusters and review tabs hit.

 

[Swingline1984]

My OT will be the first in the pile if LST gets spec pay along with CST and IST but not Core occupation.

Come on over boys, be happy to have you...beers in the fridge!

 

[C/S 0]

Well, seeing that you may be getting Spec pay you should buy.  Get a bottle of Rye too.

 

[PuckChaser]

I think the problem with above is that yes if a CST/LST/IST moves on into a CISTM position then by all means he is doing a tech job and should get tech pay.  However lets say for an example that Sgt ACISS and Sgt IST both get promoted to WO. They both are in charge of Sigs Troops, one with RCDs and one with RCRs.  They are both doing the same job and are the SME to the Sig O and Battalion/Regiment Commander.  Except the IST WO has Spec pay and the ACISS Core WO doesn't.

WE are back to the same problem we have now with Sigs Ops that are in LAN Dets and IS positions that don't get Spec pay and the LCIS in the same positions, doing the same job do.

C/S 0: I really thought you were just here to sell us the company line earlier, but I definitely agree with your above post and can tell you're concerned (like the rest of us) about how ACISS core will be treated by those of us that don't want to sit behind a computer terminal in an office.

The simple solution to this is Spec 1 for Core and Spec 2 for LST/IST/CST. Without Core gaining spec, there will be absolutely no attraction to have members want to stay in Core. The "faster promotion" gimmick doesn't sell it either, as numerous briefings have told us that CISTMs can move into Core leadership positions if need be. Why bother staying Core if you can just the same jobs a little bit later on but make more money in the process?

Then again, we're gonna be waiting 5 years for Spec Pay to even hit the Treasury Board radar. This might have all crashed and burned by then.