Argentina Reasserts Claims To Falklands (again)

[daftandbarmy]

.... 1518 islanders vote "stay with U.K." versus 3 "don't stay with U.K."The Guardian, 12 Mar 13

I'd hate to be one of the three dissenters 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It's a small town, likely everyone already knew who they are and which way they would vote. What would be amusing is if 4 of them promised to say yes to Argentina and only 3 did and now the 4 are accusing each other of being the "coward" who voted to stay. 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Nowhere did it say that those "dissenters" wish to join Argentina.

The referendum asked if they wished to  stay with the UK.
Perhaps they just want their own independent Island nation

 

[Danjanou]

Nowhere did it say that those "dissenters" wish to join Argentina.

The referendum asked if they wished to  stay with the UK.
Perhaps they just want their own independent Island nation

Yeah I can see that playing out well.

"Good morning and welcome to the first press conference of the new Republic of the Falkland Islands. We'd like to again state we have severed all ties and treaty obligations with the United Kingdom and..... wait one second please.... Bienvenido a las Islas Malivanas, la provincia más joven de Argentina."  8)

 

[dapaterson]

Yeah I can see that playing out well.

"Good morning and welcome to the first press conference of the new Republic of the Falkland Islands. We'd like to again state we have severed all ties and treaty obligations with the United Kingdon and..... wait one second please.... Bienvenido a las Islas Malivanas, la provincia más joven de Argentina."  8)

No one ever said that you have to be smart to be a political activist.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Margaret Thatcher papers reveal how Iron Lady won her first Falkland Islands battle... with her own MPs | Mail Online

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2297273/Margaret-Thatcher-papers-reveal-Iron-Lady-won-Falkland-Islands-battle--MPs.html

 

[Duckman54]

Thanks for input guys, but so far nobody's shed the LEAST bit of light on my original question...

Yes, yes the Islanders voted. yay!  Big surprise... 

Back in the day, "the Empire" spent vast sums setting up Forts and Colonies in strategically important places, vital to shipping routes, to the spice trade, the fur trade, etc, etc.  If the location itself didn't produce some amazing commodity valuable enough to pay for it's infrastructure/defence/administration then at least it's location was an important pass-thru or staging point.  Neither of these applies to Falklands. They seem to be the lone house in the cul-de-sac at the end of a VERY long stretch of road, the only reason for travelling is to support the little family living out there.

By that same rationale, I could voluntarily choose to move my family up beyond the Arctic Circle, set up shop within spitting distance of Russian territory, and then claim it is the Federal and/or Territorial Government's responsibility to look after ALL our needs!  YOU (the taxpayer) are now obligated to fly all my family's supplies in, provide us with access to healthcare services (can you imagine all the flying back and forth for every little thing?), defend us and our immediate surroundings from encroachment, school my children, etc, etc...  So without giving YOU any Say-So, I'm just gonna volunteer you to pay for my upkeep forever, ok?

But you can't shut me down because the vast majority of my household wishes to remain Canadian! 
------------------------

Rather absurd argument, isn't it? 

 

[Kirkhill]

Worked for Texas.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Thanks for input guys, but so far nobody's shed the LEAST bit of light on my original question...

Yes, yes the Islanders voted. yay!  Big surprise... 

Back in the day, "the Empire" spent vast sums setting up Forts and Colonies in strategically important places, vital to shipping routes, to the spice trade, the fur trade, etc, etc.  If the location itself didn't produce some amazing commodity valuable enough to pay for it's infrastructure/defence/administration then at least it's location was an important pass-thru or staging point.  Neither of these applies to Falklands. They seem to be the lone house in the cul-de-sac at the end of a VERY long stretch of road, the only reason for travelling is to support the little family living out there.

By that same rationale, I could voluntarily choose to move my family up beyond the Arctic Circle, set up shop within spitting distance of Russian territory, and then claim it is the Federal and/or Territorial Government's responsibility to look after ALL our needs!  YOU (the taxpayer) are now obligated to fly all my family's supplies in, provide us with access to healthcare services (can you imagine all the flying back and forth for every little thing?), defend us and our immediate surroundings from encroachment, school my children, etc, etc...  So without giving YOU any Say-So, I'm just gonna volunteer you to pay for my upkeep forever, ok?

But you can't shut me down because the vast majority of my household wishes to remain Canadian! 
------------------------

Rather absurd argument, isn't it?

Of course you realize that you've just described a few million square miles of Canada - and all the inhabitants - that happen to lie North of 60, right? 

Thank you, thank you :bowing:

 

[CougarKing]

Related:

Falklands alert as Argentina strikes £145million deal for 20 Mirage warplanes
Quote:
Argentina has launched a new round of sabre-rattling against Britain by buying a squadron of warplanes to be based within striking distance of the Falklands, the Sunday People has revealed.

President Cristina de Kirchner – who wants the UK to hand over the disputed islands – personally agreed the £145million deal to buy 20 second-hand Mirage F1 jets from Spain.
The 1,453mph aircraft carry a fearsome array of weaponry including smart bombs.

Argentina’s move could force the Ministry of Defence to bolster Britain’s presence in the south Atlantic, even though its budget is to be slashed by £875million in 2015.

Senior officers believe Argentina could now begin a campaign of ­“pester patrols” – flights towards the Falklands to test RAF responses.

Kirchner is thought to be trying to boost her nation’s military capability in a show of strength before elections which are due in 2015.

But last night a senior RAF source said: “If the Argentines start playing games and escalate the tension, we will see more RAF aircraft being deployed to the Falklands.”

The French-built Mirage F1 has a range of 500 miles – the Falklands are 400 miles east of Argentina.

Daily Mirror link

 

[Kirkhill]

And in unrelated news:

Spain threatens escalation of Gibraltar row
Spain threatened an escalation in its battle with Britain over Gibraltar warning it was ready to impose a new border tax and investigate the affairs of Gibraltans with Spanish economic interests.

Telegraph

UK tells Spain any solution to fishing dispute must include Gibraltar government
UK has dismissed a comment by Spain’s Foreign Minister suggesting that Britain and Spain were poised to reach a bilateral solution to the fishing dispute. Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo said Spain was open to dialogue and that he and his British counterpart, William Hague, “talk a lot” about many issues, including Gibraltar

Mercopress

Britain protests to Spain after jet-skier shot at off Gibraltar
Britain has protested to Spain's government after a Spanish police patrol boat fired at a British jet-skier in waters off Gibraltar in the latest diplomatic spat over the disputed territory.

Telegraph

The Argentine as an extension of Spain and the EU.

Spain doesn't have money or credit.  Neither does the Argentine.  Britain is short of cash but has credit.

Spain has surplus military gear.

The EU is looking for pressure points to influence the UK.

Edit:

You might also want to look at the deteriorating position of Spain's fishing and shipbuilding industries resulting from reforms of the EU's Common Fisheries Programme - reforms spearheaded by the Northern fishing nations generally and the UK in particular.

The CFP brought Spain into the EU, kept Norway and Iceland out and broke the UK fishing industry.  It also financed the rebirth of the Vigo and Gijon yards which permitted Spain to rebuild its Navy with Dutch designs and supply cut-rate hulls to the Aussies.

 

[tomahawk6]

Argentina is less capable now than in 1983 in forcing itself upon the Falklands.They should accept reality.Same for Spain with regards to Gibraltar.

 

[cupper]

When they buy a replacement for the Belgrano, that's when things will get interesting.

op:

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Argentina is less capable now than in 1983 in forcing itself upon the Falklands.They should accept reality.Same for Spain with regards to Gibraltar.

According to Wikipedia, Argentina doesn't have any Mirage F-1s in its inventory, meaning its pilots and ground crew will have to be trained. So, don't expect the F-1s flying around the Falklands anytime soon.

 

[JorgSlice]

According to Wikipedia, Argentina doesn't have any Mirage F-1s in its inventory, meaning its pilots and ground crew will have to be trained. So, don't expect the F-1s flying around the Falklands anytime soon.

They placed an order for a bunch. Delivery expected: 2015.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Argentina is less capable now than in 1983 in forcing itself upon the Falklands.They should accept reality.Same for Spain with regards to Gibraltar.

This Brit blogger (well worth bookmarking in general, I might add) suggests just taking a breath in both cases - this bit on the Falklands in particular ....

.... the Spanish may be selling a limited number of Mirage jets to Argentina. It is not clear whether this is actually news, or whether it’s the case that the Tabloid press have been looking on Wikipedia and turned what is a one line entry on future Spanish Mirage jet prospects into an article designed to raise tensions. In reality this site has long made the point that the Argentine Armed Forces are in a parlous state, and that they are desperately short of spares, training and operational experience.

They've also taken various fleets of aircraft out of service in recent years, so its entirely reasonable to expect some form of replacement at some point. In the case of the Mirage jets, they entered service in 1975 and are extremely old and not necessarily front line fast jet material any longer. Acquisition of a small number of 1970s vintage jets which have been worked hard for nearly 40 years is not really going to change the balance of power in the South Atlantic. Indeed, its worth noting that right now (if you believe Wikipedia) the entire Argentine Mirage fleet is grounded anyway due to spares and safety issues. At best this acquisition may try and restore some limited capability. So, its fair to say that the Falkland Islands are hardly at risk of collapse – if the acquisition of a small number of ancient fighter aircraft materially changes the balance of power, then something has gone very badly wrong in UK defence planning circles ....

 

[tomahawk6]

The Falklands was hardly garrisoned when the Argentines took it.Today it would not be easy for them to attempt.They would be better off taking the diplomatic route.

 

[Kirkhill]

Gibraltar: Spain considers joint diplomatic offensive with Argentina over Falkland Islands
Spain is considering forging an anti-British alliance with Argentina, adopting its strategy over the Falklands Islands, as the diplomatic row over Gibraltar intensifies.

Daily Telegraph

I wonder if Drake is tired of bowling.  It sounds like Cadiz may need another singeing. 

Drake singes the King of Spain's beard.

Spain and England: 450 years of convivial relations and counting. 

By the way:  Sarcasm is in effect.


Edit:  This is what happens when empires let down their guards.  With the old RN the Dons would never have dared to challenge HMG on Gibraltar and the Falklands.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Daily Telegraph

I wonder if Drake is tired of bowling.  It sounds like Cadiz may need another singeing. 

Drake singes the King of Spain's beard.

Spain and England: 450 years of convivial relations and counting. 

By the way:  Sarcasm is in effect.


Edit:  This is what happens when empires let down their guards.  With the old RN the Dons would never have dared to challenge HMG on Gibraltar and the Falklands.

Both Argentina and Spain have taken careful note of Britain's economic difficulties, which, while not quite as bad as those facing either the Argies or the Dons, limit options open to the British Forces. They both hope to exploit those difficulties to prompt Britain to make some unlikely and quite unnecessary concessions. There are, unfortunately, fewer ships, fewer regiments and fewer squadrons and while Britain can reinforce both Gibraltar and the Falklands simultaneously it will pose a strain that the Treasury will not like at all.

Spain, however, risks really annoying Finland, Germany and the Netherlands (AKA the paymasters) because it is making anything like common ground on foreign policy impossible and it is already breaking a few EU rules regading free movement, etc. In the end Spain needs bailing out a whole helluva lot more than it needs Gibraltar and Argentina can rattle its sabres all it wants ~ any real military action would invite a humiliating defeat ... again.

 

[The Bread Guy]

U.K. government/PMO/cabinet papers from 1982 have recently been declassified and released - here's an interesting BBC podcast (just under an hour - also here if the previous link doesn't work) rolling out what happened (including a scheme where the Brits, as a negotiating position, offered to let them fly Argie flags as long as day-to-day matters remained under Brit control for a 200-year-leaseback period) with excerpts from the until-now undisclosed paperwork.