Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[Stoker]

SR2 being the 2 watch system? 7/5/5/7?

MCDV's are not under the 2 watch system. We did trial straight 8's a while ago. SR2 is the readiness level.

 

[Cronicbny]

Current core crew is being looked at to be paired down to 16 for 8 hrs steaming, for hot moves, trials, day sails and the like. Regular SR2 steaming is 26 from current 36 core.

I think there is much more work to do IOT justify a significant reduction in crewing without an equal measure of automation. NR2 should be 31-33, based on 20+ years of experience running the ships. We would be well advised not to reduce our manning and increase the risk assumed by our folks at sea without a proper analysis in advance. My two cents.

 

[Cronicbny]

MCDV's are not under the 2 watch system. We did trial straight 8's a while ago. SR2 is the readiness level.

They certainly can be run in the 2 watch system (MSE 1:3) - I would expect CO's to modify rotations as needed to meet the mission. I sailed on CARIBBE in a 1:2 (MSE 1:3) and everyone 1:3 except the Ops Room in a 1:2 - lots of different configurations available including "Super sixes" etc. I still haven't heard much feedback about the S8's trial, which is odd...

 

[Stoker]

They certainly can be run in the 2 watch system (MSE 1:3) - I would expect CO's to modify rotations as needed to meet the mission. I sailed on CARIBBE in a 1:2 (MSE 1:3) and everyone 1:3 except the Ops Room in a 1:2 - lots of different configurations available including "Super sixes" etc. I still haven't heard much feedback about the S8's trial, which is odd given my day job.

They can but we really haven't seen much of it. I was on the S8's trial and incidentally during a Sea Training program, very interesting in the fatigue level.

 

[Cronicbny]

They can but we really haven't seen much of it. I was on the S8's trial and incidentally during a Sea Training program, very interesting in the fatigue level.

I can imagine - we were going to do a similar trial out west for an ISSRT, but that got the heave-ho unexpectedly. I look forward to seeing the S8 results.

 

[Stoker]

I think there is much more work to do IOT justify a significant reduction in crewing without an equal measure of automation. NR2 should be 31-33, based on 20+ years of experience running the ships. We would be well advised not to reduce our manning and increase the risk assumed by our folks at sea without a proper analysis in advance. My two cents.

Yes as it stands lots of plans for automation but nothing done so far in that regard. I have over 20 years with the class as well and the trial is to see if this is even possible.

 

[dimsum]

Well they got rid of the 40mm, so that’s got to count for 2 persons right there.

As Old Sweat says, it's more than 2 people.  Also, the 40mm isn't a full-time job (as in they had other things when not closed up at the guns).  Same with the 50 cal and the small arms.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I'll take the Kingston every time every day of the week against that threat.  "Thugs" are never determined against an armed foe.  That's why they are thugs.  If you are going to count AK47's then I guess the MCDV should count the multiple C7 and C9's that are onboard.  And of course the most important things the mass and maneuver of the ship and the professionalism of the crew.  This is why we have Intelligence, if there was a true threat we would send a CPF.

Not those 40mm.  Take it from someone who holds the Weapons Directing Officer qual on the Bofors and the .50 cal.  That 40mm was the McBeth gun.  Full of sound and fury signifying nothing.  The only thing it was good for was hitting our own deck (which happened), killing a nasty floating tomato or a helicopter in hover.  All jobs the .50 cal can do really well.  I can't even think of a time where the 40mm was even used for true warning shots (perhaps it has...).  The .50 cal is far more flexible of a weapons system and just better all round for everything the MCDV does.

Also what do we ask of the people onboard an MCDV to do?  It has never needed a 40mm or a 35mm of any sort.

The AOPS is going to take over a lot of the MCDV roles in the future.  So perhaps the MCDV will go back to more domestic, route survey and minehunting operations.

That said given the option of a 25mm similar to the AOPS I would take it in a heartbeat but who's going to do arming, repair and maint on the thing?  The MCDV's only carry a single WEng Tech for Nav and Comms systems.  They aren't going to  include an Armament Tech as well.  The navy is experimenting with reducing crew on MCDV's not increasing crew.  Tough decisions here.

Lots of vessels smaller than a Kingston have had kills with their 40mm and 57mm long before stabilized mounts came along. The RWS part is good, but the reason it is a .50cal is because that's all they had and all they pay for. A 25-35mm RWS is appropriate for the size of vessel and if we are sending vessel that far and to that part of the globe, I rather our sailors have enough firepower to protect themselves and deter people from thinking they can get away with an attack. 

 

[jollyjacktar]

I had a quick peek at Harry from Barrington St today as l passed by.  Damn they're funny looking.  For the size of the nose end, they look pretty squashed.  Kind of reminded me of a pig.  Squat and solid but not attractive.  I realize they need that size and shape to go where they're intended, but they just don't appeal to my eyes.

 

[FSTO]

Yes as it stands lots of plans for automation but nothing done so far in that regard. I have over 20 years with the class as well and the trial is to see if this is even possible.

The USN Strategic Review was just released. I haven't had a chance to read the whole document but my favorite website has done a pretty good synopsis.
http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.ca/2017/12/the-navys-strategic-readiness-review.html

I suggest our Naval Leadership have a close read of this document. In light of the problems at 7th Fleet, this document destroys all the arguments that the Transforamtionalists used to further their agenda of the last 20 years. It's a very sobering read.

 

[Journeyman]

... but my favorite website has done a pretty good synopsis.

Wait.....THIS isn't your favourite website?!    rly:

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Wow. You could pretty much word replace "USN" with "CAF" in this document and you would still be bang on.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Wow. You could pretty much word replace "USN" with "CAF" in this document and you would still be bang on.

Maybe we could save some money/time and just do that and hand it in as our own work/analysis to the powers that be and see if they'd notice.... :rofl:

 

[FSTO]

Wait.....THIS isn't your favourite website?!    rly:

For a purely Maritime perspective.... ;D

 

[Baz]

Wow. You could pretty much word replace "USN" with "CAF" in this document and you would still be bang on.

You could also replace it with other words (just from my experience or "research"):
- "RCN"
- "NATO"
- "RN"
- "14 Wing"
- or the final one, which you and I take personally, "12 Wing"
- and I'm sure there are more.

Some of us are quite worried that the arrival of the Cyclone will be seen as end to the MH problems in Canada, and it's time to get them to sea and use their capabilities, and the underlying problems (not all of which are a result of the procurement issues) will not be solved until it is too late...

 

[dimsum]

I had a quick peek at Harry from Barrington St today as l passed by.  Damn they're funny looking.  For the size of the nose end, they look pretty squashed.  Kind of reminded me of a pig.  Squat and solid but not attractive.  I realize they need that size and shape to go where they're intended, but they just don't appeal to my eyes.

For a second there I thought you were talking about the MCDVs 

 

[Underway]

Old Powerpoint AOPS project.  It's a good brief for the main thrust of the AOPS including background information on its importance.

Most interesting to many here will be the pers and positions towards the end of the ppt.  Take with appropriate knowledge that this has probably changed a bit and will change once the ships start being used.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Interesting article on the new US proposed Coast Guard icebreakers and their intent to 'heavily' arm them.  Looks like we'll be the ones bringing the knife to the gunfight -  :nod:

http://www.wearethemighty.com/news/the-coast-guard-wants-heavy-firepower-on-their-new-icebreakers

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/17/coast-guard-wants-cruise-missiles-arctic-icebreake/

 

[Cloud Cover]

Typical arms race-escalation argument going on here...
"Sure, there’s no combat to be done in the Arctic today, but as always, having weapons ready is often the best way to prevent a fight.With so many armed adversaries , we think putting more guns on new icebreakers is a great move."

 

[Stoker]

Interesting article on the new US proposed Coast Guard icebreakers and their intent to 'heavily' arm them.  Looks like we'll be the ones bringing the knife to the gunfight -  :nod:

http://www.wearethemighty.com/news/the-coast-guard-wants-heavy-firepower-on-their-new-icebreakers

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/17/coast-guard-wants-cruise-missiles-arctic-icebreake/

We could very well could add modular add ons to Harry DeWolf if the situation called for it. The Danish Knud Rasmussen-class icebreakers only has a 76MM in one of the articles, they can add those weapon systems if needed.