Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

Gorgo

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Hopefully, the production of the remaining AOPS will be hurried up so that work can start on the CSCs.
 

Navy_Pete

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Hopefully, the production of the remaining AOPS will be hurried up so that work can start on the CSCs.

I don't think production of AOPS is the holdup; once they do equipment selection there is still a bunch of work to finalize the design, do the production engineering (ie breakdown the ship into modules, then plan how to build the modules), build a test plan and all kinds of good stuff. Also there are long lead items (gearing, and propellers being the most obvious ones).

Expect there will be a bit of a production slow down honestly when they switch over to CSC but as long as there isn't a gap we're good.
 

Cloud Cover

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Apparently there are some ISI and RCN people on their way over to Australia to observe and learn as they are cutting steel for prototype. Probably same group who were in Scotland last year.
 

Colin Parkinson

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I don't think production of AOPS is the holdup; once they do equipment selection there is still a bunch of work to finalize the design, do the production engineering (ie breakdown the ship into modules, then plan how to build the modules), build a test plan and all kinds of good stuff. Also there are long lead items (gearing, and propellers being the most obvious ones).

Expect there will be a bit of a production slow down honestly when they switch over to CSC but as long as there isn't a gap we're good.
Hence the two CCG AOP's, I hope CCG puts a stern ramp on theirs, allows launching and recovery of IRBs in great sea states than cranes or davits.
 

Navy_Pete

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Hence the two CCG AOP's, I hope CCG puts a stern ramp on theirs, allows launching and recovery of IRBs in great sea states than cranes or davits.
Yeah, now the CCG and RCN can share the ship no one was really looking for! 😁

We always talked about doing that with the 280s once they got rid of the variable depth sonar. The well was already there, and would have been bad ass to drop some kind of combat RHIB with everyone already in it. Some people made all kinds of good arguments about it tactically, but really just think they wanted to look cool.

Makes even more sense in the Arctic though; climbing up and down a ladder to get into RHIB seems like an extra layer of bad ideas in the Arctic..
 

Colin Parkinson

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Hovercraft were used quite a bit in the Arctic, the Hovercraft in this film in the end became a donor for parts to build up SRN 6 #045, which I crewed on at Sea Island base https://www.bpvideolibrary.com/record/305
My Captain at Sea Island ran the 4 fan one you see lower left on page 2, it was a dog as this was a converted Hover cable ferry, it had no keel bag and had zero directional stability, doing 360's in a white out was interesting he said...
 

Colin Parkinson

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Expensive machines to run. The skirt takes a lot of work to keep in good repair, these craft were built like planes and suffered corrosion issues. The new AP1-88/400's are built like aluminium boats with thicker welded construction. Far less problems, but the skirts remain the same, plus 4x1000hp Cats to look after, so fuel is close to 60 galleons an hour. They are excellent machines in certain niches, but I think there was a backlash from being oversold and resulting poor performances against traditional craft.
 

chrisf

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Hence the two CCG AOP's, I hope CCG puts a stern ramp on theirs, allows launching and recovery of IRBs in great sea states than cranes or davits.

The coast guard uses Miranda davits on a large number of their vessels...

Best way to describe it... theres a "skate" that stays in contact with the hull all the way from the water to the hull, and the davit drags the RHIB in towards the hull, so its in contact with the skate all the time.

You can launch and recover in a much higher sea state than a regular single point luffing davit... you can of course launch with the full crew/casualties/passengers in the boat, or leave hung off at deck level to make getting in/out easier...

Beats the heck out of the paint on the side of the hull is the only downside.

They were literally designed for the Canadian coast guard... no idea why they never caught on with other users, especially navies or the offshore oil industry.
 

Cdn Blackshirt

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Colin Parkinson

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The coast guard uses Miranda davits on a large number of their vessels...

Best way to describe it... theres a "skate" that stays in contact with the hull all the way from the water to the hull, and the davit drags the RHIB in towards the hull, so its in contact with the skate all the time.

You can launch and recover in a much higher sea state than a regular single point luffing davit... you can of course launch with the full crew/casualties/passengers in the boat, or leave hung off at deck level to make getting in/out easier...

Beats the heck out of the paint on the side of the hull is the only downside.

They were literally designed for the Canadian coast guard... no idea why they never caught on with other users, especially navies or the offshore oil industry.
Didn`t have that on the Pearkes when I was on it, the Gordon Reid and John Jacobson had the stern ramp.
 

Spencer100

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Putting my Tin Foil hat on......I think one of the main reason for the under arming is that the Brass didn't want the politicos looking at them a saying "see you armed shipped why are we spending 65 billion on frigates?" With these they can say nope those ships just have a tiny gun on them.

FYI I do understand the reason given in thread about the armament, IE they don't need, why the cost of maintaining an expensive system, higher cost CMS etc. I just think not giving the Politicos any ideas was part of it. :)
 

Colin Parkinson

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Putting my Tin Foil hat on......I think one of the main reason for the under arming is that the Brass didn't want the politicos looking at them a saying "see you armed shipped why are we spending 65 billion on frigates?" With these they can say nope those ships just have a tiny gun on them.

FYI I do understand the reason given in thread about the armament, IE they don't need, why the cost of maintaining an expensive system, higher cost CMS etc. I just think not giving the Politicos any ideas was part of it. :)
Actually I don't doubt that was a consideration. I have seen some strange ideas come out of Ministers and their staff mouths.
 

Underway

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Putting my Tin Foil hat on......I think one of the main reason for the under arming is that the Brass didn't want the politicos looking at them a saying "see you armed shipped why are we spending 65 billion on frigates?" With these they can say nope those ships just have a tiny gun on them.

FYI I do understand the reason given in thread about the armament, IE they don't need, why the cost of maintaining an expensive system, higher cost CMS etc. I just think not giving the Politicos any ideas was part of it. :)
Remember the government wanted two armed heavy icebreakers until the RCN got involved and talked them off the wall. The RCN went away with the government's concerns (Arctic patrol) and did an analysis of what was the best options and came back to the government and said here's the best way forward.
As far as navy procurement is concerned we usually get what we need without random interference. Because the strategic necessity of the RCN is obvious to even politicos. Airforce stuff on the other hand...
 

chrisf

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Didn`t have that on the Pearkes when I was on it, the Gordon Reid and John Jacobson had the stern ramp.

They're installed on all the 1100s including the Pearkes, as well as most of the larger ships.

The Louis was even fitted with one within the last couple years following near sinking of the Ann Harvey.

They're fantastic, you're in contact with the skate/hull the whole way up and down so you're swinging around in the air.

Takes up about the same footprint as regular single point luffing davit, its a bit higher to accommodate the skate

Here's a terrible video of one in action.


Its terrible because they skipped the launch completely, but you can see the skate hanging off the side of the ship after they launch (it can be left down or winches back up if the frc is going to be gone a while)

The lowering is controlled from the FRC by pulling the brake cable, much like launching a life boat from a davit, so winch operator is optional (for launch) and its extremely quick to launch, you can pretty much free fall if you want, with an offload release at the bottom.

Usually if we were on SAR standby we left them hung off like in the video (its a bit easier to get in/out, particularly if you've got casualties) but you can embark your full crew and launch from the fully stowed position as soo.

Really don't know why the navy never embraced them.
 

Underway

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I'll just go to the coasts to look at our 18 Halifax class frigates and nuclear submarine fleet...

Different time. That was Cold War thinking and realities. To use a gaming term the "meta has shifted". Great power competition. Shifting US and other NATO ally goals/priorities. This means unreliable allies (or at least allies with goals opposing or not ideal from Canada's perspective). Russia as a spoiler, not the main enemy.

We have to not be bound by our recent historical perspective. That way leads to the "Canada is peacekeepers" paradigm, not the current one. The government is well aware of the changes, it shows up in their documentation. That means different choices for defense. This means the RCN is the spending priority.
 
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