Ancient Apocalypse (Netflix)

[Remius]

Actually, it was a lot closer then most people think. There was one battle where Cortez and his gang got there asses kicked by the Aztec (also called "Mexica") and sent running. If the Aztecs had followed up they could have wiped Cortez and his expedition out, but they didn't and that allowed the Spanish to re-group and rest.



The Spanish were most diffently a shock to the local inhabitants of Mexico. Spanish weapons gave to them a huge advantage, especially horses. Another weapon that absolutely terrified the locals were the Spanish use of "war dogs."

As for the Aztec belief that the Spanish were "gods" has been questioned. When Cortez first landed in Mexico, the locals after initial contact didn't hestitate to attack the Spanish. Also the some inhabitants of Mexico had been exposed to Spaniards prior to the arrival of Cortez. Years previously some Spanish sailors were shipwrecked off of Mexico and the survivors were taken in by the local inhabitants. And in one case of one individual who went "native," married a local women and raised a couple children with her (first mixed-blood children in Western Hemisphere). When offered the chance to return to Spain he refused.

If anyone is interested in the conquest of Mexico by the Spanish I highly recommend Daniele Bolellis History On Fire podcasts. Back in 2017 (see Archives), he produced four episodes (Conquest of Mexico) that go into very good detail of the conquest and come out at about total of nine and half hours. Just one caveat, not for children! What the Spanish and the Aztecs did to each other were pretty brutal and the podcasts are not for the faint hearted.

Cortez also had thousands of warriors from rival groups from the area with him as well. The myth of 200 conquistadors defeating the whole of the aztecs is a myth.

 

[GR66]

Actually, it was a lot closer then most people think. There was one battle where Cortez and his gang got there asses kicked by the Aztec (also called "Mexica") and sent running. If the Aztecs had followed up they could have wiped Cortez and his expedition out, but they didn't and that allowed the Spanish to re-group and rest.



The Spanish were most diffently a shock to the local inhabitants of Mexico. Spanish weapons gave to them a huge advantage, especially horses. Another weapon that absolutely terrified the locals were the Spanish use of "war dogs."

As for the Aztec belief that the Spanish were "gods" has been questioned. When Cortez first landed in Mexico, the locals after initial contact didn't hestitate to attack the Spanish. Also the some inhabitants of Mexico had been exposed to Spaniards prior to the arrival of Cortez. Years previously some Spanish sailors were shipwrecked off of Mexico and the survivors were taken in by the local inhabitants. And in one case of one individual who went "native," married a local women and raised a couple children with her (first mixed-blood children in Western Hemisphere). When offered the chance to return to Spain he refused.

If anyone is interested in the conquest of Mexico by the Spanish I highly recommend Daniele Bolellis History On Fire podcasts. Back in 2017 (see Archives), he produced four episodes (Conquest of Mexico) that go into very good detail of the conquest and come out at about total of nine and half hours. Just one caveat, not for children! What the Spanish and the Aztecs did to each other were pretty brutal and the podcasts are not for the faint hearted.

Also the Spaniards had significant numbers of allied indigenous troops joining them in the fight. The Aztecs were an expansion-minded empire and made plenty of enemies among their neighbours. Most histories conveniently "forget" to mention the contribution of other tribes in the conflicts.

Edit: Remius beat me to it

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Also the Spaniards had significant numbers of allied indigenous troops joining them in the fight. The Aztecs were an expansion-minded empire and made plenty of enemies among their neighbours. Most histories conveniently "forget" to mention the contribution of other tribes in the conflicts.

Edit: Remius beat me to it

Yes, who were sick and tired of being used as human sacifices to the Aztec gods. Unfortunately, they just exchanged one set of monster (Aztecs) for another (Spaniards).

 

[Remius]

Yes, who were sick and tired of being used as human sacifices to the Aztec gods. Unfortunately, they just exchanged one set of monster (Aztecs) for another (Spaniards).

To be fair, most of the rival groups at the time were also Aztecs, they pretty much all spoke the same language and practiced the same religion and had the same gods. The main power being the mexica (I may have that wrong) with a few other city state against other city states with one in particular that was a rival (name escapes me at this time). Not unlike Ancient Greece with competing city states. Think Athens vs Sparta.

It was more an opportunity for one side to gain advantage over the other. Just like here with the Iroquois vs the Huron.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Not sure where that comes from.

Conspiciry podcasts, obviously

I missed pyramid in the response. From some of the documentaries I've seen some of these megalithic structures appear to just spring up, from civilizations with no prior building experience, no substation how they would come about the knowledge to build these things. In some cases, we still can't explain how they were made.

 

[Furniture]

I don't buy into Hancock's theory, but if you look into the discovery of "viking" settlements in North America, it's pretty clear that the "establishment" doesn't like anything that upsets their narrative. Hancock does definitely gloss over things that don't work with his theory, but there is a lot of hand waving in the official stories as well.

Time and technological limitations mean none of us are ever likely to know conclusively which version of events is 100% true.

 

[RangerRay]

Some of the things that stuck with me from reading Hancock’s books:

- The erosion on the Sphinx is consistent with rainfall similar to that found in rainforests. The last time there was a rainforest in what is now Egypt was over 12000 years ago.

- The head on the Sphinx is proportionately smaller than the body suggesting the original statue had the head of a lion. This has something to do with the position of Leo over 12000 years ago.

- The layout of the Giza complex matches a certain constellation over 12000 years ago

- Geological characteristics of the “older” crude pyramids indicate they are actually newer than the Great Pyramids. Later people may have tried to emulate the Great Pyramids built by an earlier more advanced civilizations

- If the Pyramids were built by dragging stones on ramps, to be at an angle to drag them up the structure, the ramps would be larger than the pyramids.

It’s also more than likely that these “factoids” are based on less than rigorous academic work.

 

[Kirkhill]

Not sure where that comes from.

There is plenty of evidence of cruder structures in all pyramid building civilisations.

In the americas in a lot of cases they just built over the smaller structures and kept getting bigger.

In Egypt, plenty of proto pyramids.

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramids

The Egyptian Pyramids are described as pyramid-shaped monuments, constructed mostly as funerary tombs and ceremonial complexes for the departed pharaohs during the Old Kingdom (2575 BC to 2150 BC) and Middle Kingdom (2050-1550 BC) periods. - HeritageDaily - Archaeology News

www.heritagedaily.com

Agree. Masonry techniques had been developing for thousands of years in various places prior to the pyramids. Technology is portable over great distances and time.

 

[Furniture]

Agree. Masonry techniques had been developing for thousands of years in various places prior to the pyramids. Technology is portable over great distances and time.

That explains the pyramids at Giza, but not Göbekli Tepe.

As I said before, there is little reason to believe Graham Hancock's theory, but there is a lot of hand waving in the official story as well.

 

[Remius]

That explains the pyramids at Giza, but not Göbekli Tepe.

Actually it does. Quarries with unfinished structures and pillars have been found at the site. They litteraly carved into the rock. The site does indicate a transitionary period from Hunter gatherer societies to more established permanent settlement. It’s quite fascinating.

 

[Furniture]

Actually it does. Quarries with unfinished structures and pillars have been found at the site. They litteraly carved into the rock. The site does indicate a transitionary period from Hunter gatherer societies to more established permanent settlement. It’s quite fascinating.

Not related in any way to the development of pyramids in Egypt...

I'm aware the site didn't pop up out of nowhere, but in the 90s it was not really "accepted", nor was Troy, and a few other things that have since been accepted by the broader archeological world. My point is, things get discovered, ignored/dismissed, then finally accepted on a somewhat regular basis. What right now is just a crazy guy's theory, may very well be found/accepted to be true, or may be found to be untrue. Dismissing things because they don't align with the accepted narrative is the default (for good reason), but it doesn't mean everything dismissed is untrue.

 

[Remius]

Not related in any way to the development of pyramids in Egypt...

Sorry, I thought you were talking about quarrying and the development of megaliths and structures as whole. Archeological sites normally have associated areas for those things. And they strive to show the development. Either by digging deeper (a lot of sites are just built over older sites) or searching the area.

I'm aware the site didn't pop up out of nowhere, but in the 90s it was not really "accepted", nor was Troy, and a few other things that have since been accepted by the broader archeological world. My point is, things get discovered, ignored/dismissed, then finally accepted on a somewhat regular basis. What right now is just a crazy guy's theory, may very well be found/accepted to be true, or may be found to be untrue. Dismissing things because they don't align with the accepted narrative is the default (for good reason), but it doesn't mean everything dismissed is untrue.

Oh for sure. Not discounting anything tbh. But there are quantifiable and demonstrated explanations for some of the questions being posed. But yes, all answers are not yet answered to be certain. Archeology is definitely a cool area of study.

 

[Jarnhamar]

They estimate only 5% of Gobekli Tepe has been excavated and believe at least 250 more megaliths and 16 sites are buried around the area. Pretty impressive work for nomads. There also seems to be arguments that these sites were raised before humans started transitioning to agriculture and occupied dwellings.

 

[Remius]

They estimate only 5% of Gobekli Tepe has been excavated and believe at least 250 more megaliths and 16 sites are buried around the area. Pretty impressive work for nomads. There also seems to be arguments that these sites were raised before humans started transitioning to agriculture and occupied dwellings.

Not too dissimilar from the Aztecs who went from Nomads to empire in only a few centuries. Humans despite their flaws are an amazing species.

 

[Kirkhill]

Building drystone walls in a cave in Greece 10,000 years before Gobekli Tepe.
Firing clay in a kiln at Dolni Vestonice, and making rope and nets, 5,000 years before that.

Wall discovered in central Greece could be world’s oldest | eKathimerini.com

The unassuming remains of a stone wall that once partly closed off the entrance to the prehistoric Theopetra Cave near Kalambaka, Thessaly, have recently been dated by specialists to about 21000 BC, making it the oldest known man-made construction in Greece and likely the world, according to a...

www.ekathimerini.com

The unassuming remains of a stone wall that once partly closed off the entrance to the prehistoric Theopetra Cave near Kalambaka, Thessaly, have recently been dated by specialists to about 21000 BC, making it the oldest known man-made construction in Greece and likely the world, according to a statement on March 22, 2010, by the Greek Ministry of Culture and Tourism. According to radio carbon dating, the date 23,000 BP (years before present) was determined by a pair of scientists, Nicholaos Zacharias and Ioannis Basiakos, at the Archaeometry Laboratory of the National Center for Scientific Research Demokritos, using a relatively new method of dating called Optically Stimulated Luminescence (OSL, see below).

The cave, in a setting overlooking the Lithaios River, a tributary of the Pineios River... consists of a 500-square-meter rectangular chamber of which the entrance is 17 meters long by 3 meters high. The reported wall, constructed of dry masonry, extends across the cave?s mouth reducing the large opening by about two-thirds. The wall?s suggested date coincides with the last glacial period (circa 110,000-10,000 years ago) and indicates that the structure may have been built by Paleolithic inhabitants of the cave to protect themselves against the bitter cold.

If we ditch the borders and assume a nomadic existence with lots of opportunities for exchange, both peaceful and violent, and opportunities for learning, you end up with a very slow speed internet. Information is retained, passed on, adapted. The community at large learns, adapts and advances.

And I too am a great believer in the value of the heretic and their focus on the outlying data that doesn't conform to the conventional theory. It is only when you get enough outliers that the conventional theory is forced to adjust and accommodate.

And my belief is that the ancient internet ran at the speed of the dogsled over ice. Hard to prove because when the ice melts, as it has been for 19,000 years, it carries away most traces of life on top of the ice.

 

[Spencer100]

Not too dissimilar from the Aztecs who went from Nomads to empire in only a few centuries. Humans despite their flaws are an amazing species.

Wright brothers to the moon in under 75 years. I don't get why there could not be a burst of knowledge so there is no evidence of hunter/gatherer to city and pyramids. Also civilizations lose knowledge too.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Wright brothers to the moon in under 75 years. I don't get why there could not be a burst of knowledge so there is no evidence of hunter/gatherer to city and pyramids. Also civilizations lose knowledge too.

That's a solid point.

 

[Journeyman]

Also civilizations lose knowledge too.

As seen in recent politics....

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Where the stories of the destruction of Sodom likely came from. You can imagine the social impact of such an event on the region, likley still with us today.

A Tunguska sized airburst destroyed Tall el-Hammam a Middle Bronze Age city in the Jordan Valley near the Dead Sea - Scientific Reports

We present evidence that in ~ 1650 BCE (~ 3600 years ago), a cosmic airburst destroyed Tall el-Hammam, a Middle-Bronze-Age city in the southern Jordan Valley northeast of the Dead Sea. The proposed airburst was larger than the 1908 explosion over Tunguska, Russia, where a ~ 50-m-wide bolide...

www.nature.com

 

[QV]

Hancock's theory that an advanced ancient civilization was destroyed by a cataclysmic event resulting in a giant reset is quite interesting and entirely possible from my standpoint.