Alleged Institutional Racism/solutions in CAF (merged)

[Towards_the_gap]

The only time I've seen a muslim encounter a negative reaction was when it was entirely his fault. Said individual lived quite a 'haram' lifestyle (booze, women, illicit drugs, chronic lateness, and I should think he was a bit behind on his zakat after all that), yet when the book was thrown at him for AWOL/discipline issues, he pulled every card for religious accommodation, ie halal meals, timings adjusted for daily prayers, etc etc. Now the accommodation of religion isn't what pissed anyone off, it was the hypocrisy of this individual who was quite blatantly 'pulling a card'.

Any other muslim I've met in the forces did his/her thing, nobody really cared about it, if anything it made the rounds easier in the mess cause it was one less alcoholic drink to buy.

You might feel a bit 'outside the tribe' right now as a multi-cultural urbanite, but give it 6 months should you get in, you'll belong to a whole new tribe, one that doesn't give a crap who you pray to.

 

[Oompah-Loompah@]

The only time I've seen a muslim encounter a negative reaction was when it was entirely his fault. Said individual lived quite a 'haram' lifestyle (booze, women, illicit drugs, chronic lateness, and I should think he was a bit behind on his zakat after all that), yet when the book was thrown at him for AWOL/discipline issues, he pulled every card for religious accommodation, ie halal meals, timings adjusted for daily prayers, etc etc. Now the accommodation of religion isn't what pissed anyone off, it was the hypocrisy of this individual who was quite blatantly 'pulling a card'.

Any other muslim I've met in the forces did his/her thing, nobody really cared about it, if anything it made the rounds easier in the mess cause it was one less alcoholic drink to buy.

You might feel a bit 'outside the tribe' right now as a multi-cultural urbanite, but give it 6 months should you get in, you'll belong to a whole new tribe, one that doesn't give a crap who you pray to.

After all, we all believe in a little something in a cold, water filled trench.

 

[EME Hopeful]

I know racism and discrimination exist everywhere, but its kind of sad if its a problem (I don't know if it is or isn't and I'm not saying it is or is not, I'm still only in the application process) in the CF considering one of the interview questions is what's your view on it/would you have a problem working with people of a different race/religion/gender/ sexual orientation/etc.  I know some people lie but I would like to believe that the interviewers are more than able to screen those people out.

With regards to minority recruiting, and this is coming from a Canadian with Chinese heritage, I think its pure BS.  In no way should a person's gender/race/religion/etc play a part in their recruitment.  If they're the best person for the job, hire them.  If not, move on.  Lives are at stake here, and nothing short of the best available candidate is acceptable.

With that being said, if you want to diversify and more accurately reflect the image of the general population perhaps you need to start an education program.  A lot of the people in the so called minorities come from places where the military is "evil" so to speak.  Where they're used to enforce dictatorships, where they're used to unlawfully suppress the masses, where they're nothing but a bunch of violent people who harass/extort the civilians or other things that may leave a negative lasting image that could be passed down from generation to generation.  That is the trend that you need to break if you ever want to increase the numbers from a so called minority population.

 

[dimsum]

When I was in the Navy, one of our Muslim sailors would call up to the bridge before prayer times and ask which way the ship was facing, so he would know where to face in the cabin towards Mecca (if he wasn't working).  It seemed to work out.

 

[RectorCR]

After all, we all believe in a little something in a cold, water filled trench.

Negative  >

 

[George Wallace]

Negative  >

WAIT FOR IT!          ;D

 

[Loachman]

To me personally, it seemed like a form of tribalism, where someone 'different' was not being accepted. Of course, no one would say this to my face, but I felt it. While at university, I also noticed this sort of grouping behavior where people hung out with others of the same race/religion

People naturally tend to gather in groups that reflect themselves, which can be based upon race, gender, language, interests, or whatever, so I'd not read too much into that.

You may find that it takes a little more to break into a group, but once you are on your first course that should happen pretty quickly.

Few of us care what somebody's race*, religion*, ethnic origin*, gender, or any other differentiating factor is so long as they pull their weight and do their best.

*My personal exception to that rule - such groups tend to have different and tasy food, so bring some along.

Good luck, and welcome to the family.

 

[DAA]

Few of us care what somebody's race*, religion*, ethnic origin*, gender, or any other differentiating factor is so long as they pull their weight and do their best.

While I would have to agree with most of Loachman's statement above with the exception of the "other differentiating factor".

Wearing a "green" uniform, I always feel uncomfortable hanging out with the Air Force and Navy guys, so I usually only do that when none of my kind are around to see it.   

 

[Strike]

*My personal exception to that rule - such groups tend to have different and tasy food, so bring some along.

Oh yes!  It makes unit pot lucks that much better!

 

[EME Hopeful]

While I would have to agree with most of Loachman's statement above with the exception of the "other differentiating factor".

Wearing a "green" uniform, I always feel uncomfortable hanging out with the Air Force and Navy guys, so I usually only do that when none of my kind are around to see it.   

Ah, I've been waiting for someone to say that for a while now....  took a lot longer than I figured it would

 

[ultimatewarrior]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm still pushing forward with my application since joining the CAF is something I've always wanted to do.

P.S. I'll be sure to bring some biryani and butter chicken to future potlucks.

 

[Emilio]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm still pushing forward with my application since joining the CAF is something I've always wanted to do.

P.S. I'll be sure to bring some biryani and butter chicken to future potlucks.

YES

please do.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

While I would have to agree with most of Loachman's statement above with the exception of the "other differentiating factor".

Wearing a "green" uniform, I always feel uncomfortable hanging out with the Air Force and Navy guys, so I usually only do that when none of my kind are around to see it.   

It can even go farther than that.  My SLC was all 'green DEU' folks, but in the mess, etc you'd usually see folks in groups that were related/semi-related; cbt arms, CSS would tend to end up at the same tables especially after supper if a few pints were happening.  I'd say mostly because of common discussion/gripe points being the conversation.

I guess once you see it happen for X amount of years, you don't really notice it because it's "normal".

I see it in the AF too;  different folks of the same trades but from different Sqn's talking/eating together in the mess, and even at the Sqn level at something like a Sqn brief.  People just tend to congregate with their own kind.

 

[brihard]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm still pushing forward with my application since joining the CAF is something I've always wanted to do.

P.S. I'll be sure to bring some biryani and butter chicken to future potlucks.

Butter chicken is friggin' delicious. I'm gonna make the effort soon to learn how to make it.

 

[Robert0288]

Butter chicken is friggin' delicious. I'm gonna make the effort soon to learn how to make it.

Sorry Brihard, had to be done.  ;D

 

[Delaney1986]

Sorry Brihard, had to be done.  ;D

Oh, the irony of spelling "Failure" wrong....lol
;D

 

[Robert0288]

I just copied and pasted from the internet.  I can't correct the spelling inside of a picture.

 

[Delaney1986]

I just copied and pasted from the internet.  I can't correct the spelling inside of a picture.

Wasn't referring to you....was referring to the picture

 

[eaglehawkdown]

Good day all.

I have a question that I would like to ask and yes I did some research and looking to try and find an answer but was not coming up with anything. Does any one know what the number of minorities are that are either in the application process or are currently working with the CAF. I'm trying to see if they hire any people with ethnic backgrounds less than say "whites" or "blacks" . It seems that finding a job while having a ethnic name on the application can seem like it would take much longer than someone that had a name like mike smith.

Just curious.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Canadian Forces to reduce ‘unattainable’ targets for recruitment of women, visible minorities

While auditors found the percentage of new recruits enrolled in basic training each year who were women has fallen from 15.58 per cent to 12.67 per cent between 2008 and 2011, women’s overall representation in the military grew from 13.59 per cent to 13.68 per cent.

Progress on increasing the representation of visible minorities also “falls well short,” defence officials reported, even though the number has increased steadily from 2.83 per cent in 2008 to 3.86 per cent in 2011.

The number of aboriginals in the Canadian Forces has grown steadily from 1.96 per cent in 2008 to 2.16 per cent 2011, and unlike with targets for women and visible minorities, defence officials had considered the target for aboriginals “achievable.”

See also this paper:

Can the Canadian Forces Reflect Canadian Society? by Captain (N) Hans Jung