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All Things Combat Diver (merged)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Roko
  • Start date Start date
Diverchick,

You raise some good points.  I also think most of the combat divers agree with you, it's just a matter of convincing the grown-ups that divers are combat multipliers and need to be trained as such.  I think of it this way.... 6 months ago the Leo I MBT was on its way out of the CF inventory as being surplus to requirement... now they are sending a Squadron of Leos into KAF!  I don't know when or where, but mark my words,... there will be another op requirement for divers in the future.  We just can't let our guard down.  What does that mean?  Unit dive teams will have to continue holding the torch until manning gets sorted out.

As for your question on dive comms, I am hoping that Joe can answer that for us.

S6
 
A new story has been posted to the Combat Diver site ref 5 RGC and Trg at the POrt on MOntreal

www.donlowconcrete.com/CDAC

Enjoy!
 
Divderchick were you in Trail a few years back and did that tethered night swim on the Columbia river?
 
Been a bit busy at the ol' dive centre the last few months so haven't had a chance to stop by this site. Here's an update:

DERTWG and DEngr Confs in Oct didn't pan out as well as I had hoped. Certainly, there was moral support, but it pretty well ended there. A bit later D Engr confirmed that "status quo" was where we had to stay, for awhile anyway. So, as a result, we sought out and have been given direction to get as capable as possible in completing our current CFP 361(7) mandated tasks. So, that means additions to our list of eqpt (only to address capability deficiencies to these "blessed" tasks, not developing new tasks) and adding the trg that needs to be done to properly do these tasks. What's that mean? Tell you later in this write up.

Dive crse and Suprs crse wapped up mid-Nov (welcome to the family to all the hard chargers on the last crse. Dive Suprs, keep the standards high.)

ADC sent a rep to the Dive Eqpt Marketers Assoc Conf in Florida - lots of great new ideas for kit and lots of new contacts made.

CF Dive Trg meeting in early Dec in Hfx. Seems there is potential for considerable taking on of new trg responsibilities for the ADC from the Clearance Divers. Diving to 150 fsw is already blessed and will happen next crse. Won't spell out other initiatives here until things get "carved in stone" at the CF Dive Policy Conf in Apr 07, but it is potentially the largest single Army dive trg advancement since the inception of Army diving. More to follow.

Once again, it's that time of the fiscal year where rumours abound that there is the potential for lots of eqpt money to be made aval at the last minute.

Now, you add all of the aforementioned points together and you'll understand that with the "new direction," the new list of eqpt ideas, the potential for a lot of new responsibilities, and the rumours of money, that we pushed a lot of paper and spent considerable time doing the nec planning, staffwork, and liaison to be prepared to acquire new eqpt should funds be made aval. Lists have been submitted to the Training chains of command for eqpt for the ADC to assist in individual trg and collective trg, and have also been submitted to the Army for lots of eqpt for the Army teams. You never know how these things will work out, but we'll keep on top of things.

The ADC found out very recently that Treasury Board reps were doing a review of Port Inspection Diver allowance and that Combat Diver allowance would be reviewed as well if we got our submission in really quick. We scrambled to get the research and the briefing note done and reviewed by OPI Army Diving and was submitted late last week. We asked to have all extra-regimentally employed (ERE) divers recv full allowance as well if they remain current with a unit team. No promises on that. Might hear something of a result by end-March. More to fol.

Also working on trying to grow the ADC. The potential workload and responsibilities that could be here will seriously impact on the small staff we have. More to fol.

We are visiting the US Army Dive Company early next month to talk trg, eqpt, tasks, op lessons learned, and participation in Ex RB 07.

Will also be participating in the Underwater Intervention conference in the US end-Jan. That's heavy on commercial dive trg and eqpt. I think that'll prove the most useful of all the confs.

Speaking of Ex RB 07, looks like Allied particpation will be good, but it's Canadian participation that's not looking good. Anyone on a Regt team out there that can make it? I'm hearing crickets chirping right now due to op tempo.

That's all I've got for now. Lots of irons in the fire. If you've got comments or suggestions, fire away.
 
Forgot to mention the design for the new Dive Pod for the MSVS has also been submitted.
 
Joe,

Excellent SITREP.  Keep the momentum going.  I hope all the hard work in staffing will continue to pay off.

Any more information on the use of Shallow Water divers in the SCF?

Who again is OPI Army Diving?

S6.
 
S6,

Ref the SCF, I've heard post-ITEE that Army diving skills (and the considerable accompanying gen Army mil skills) would benefit the SCF. This is completely unofficial, however. So, until the government announces future of SCF, expending further brainpower or effort on this is low on Army diving priority list. The ADC is aware of the types of tasks involved (and the majority of the resultant trg and eqpt bill) and fully believes an Army element is nec for the SCF dive/recce element to be successful. The Army diving community will likely only get further involved in this if future Army direction is given.

OPI Army Diving is Cmdt CFSME.

By the by, once we commence "catch-up" trg for current divers, and also beginning with the next dive crse, you can shelve the term "Shallow water" divers as 45m/150fsw will be the new Army diver depth limit (a shout out to our Clearance Diver friends acknowledging they still do it deeper ;)).
 
Here's a dive site here on the left coast for those of who really like diving.

http://www.divemaster.ca/

To bad the City of Nanaimo has not done the same for HMS Sask. and HMS Cape Breton just off Snake Island.
Both good dive sites.

Bubbles Up

Be for your ask I are a air breathing Sapper and just passing on some info.
 
Just came back from fdup, and got my blood up listening to all the hard core Navy guys. How much involvement is Combat diving having with the VSW (Very Shallow Water) ... cell/ detatchment/ sqn/ whatever it is? There are some pretty interesting things going on in areas youall have interest in, except maybe the salty taste of the water. I don't have a tan beret in my collection yet, but...
 
Gully,

The ADC argued its case to be a part of the amphib concept of ops when the organization was being put together a year or more ago. We did a few trips to visit other Allies with the clearance divers now involved in the SCF to work on draft TTPs and such. Even ran ROGUISH BUOY 06 with an amphib slant. Bottom line, the Navy guys running the org have simply decided we are not required, and without a higher level Army push to be part of it, we are not involved. End of story.

The Army dive community needs to focus on becoming competent in doing the mandated tasks within our Combat Diver pam. That is the direction coming out of the DERTWG/D Engr Conf/OPI Army Diving. Taking on new roles would be spreading ourselves much too thin based on our current numbers, eqpt, and trg time aval these days.

 
kj_gully said:
Just came back from fdup, and got my blood up listening to all the hard core Navy guys. How much involvement is Combat diving having with the VSW (Very Shallow Water) ... cell/ detatchment/ sqn/ whatever it is? There are some pretty interesting things going on in areas youall have interest in, except maybe the salty taste of the water. I don't have a tan beret in my collection yet, but...

Gully,

These VSW guys....are they working for the Fleet?  SCF?  CSOR?  Who?

If they are Clearance Divers, what compentencies were they talking about?  They already have the rebreathers.  Do you have any more detail?

S6
 
Current Combat Divers,

Any of you conduct ice dives this past winter?  Any pics?  Post a couple if you got them.

Chimo!

S6
 
During the winter warfare exercise of January '75 or '76, when 2CER was still 1 Field Sqd or 1 Field Engineer Sqd, we did an under ice exercise on the Petawawa River. 2 Troop had spent considerable time and effort building a fairly significant ice bridge. My Troop (3 Troop-Mechanized) was down river  and around a bend sitting in the bush waiting for 2 Troop to finish and clear the area. We had at least two maybe three divers in our troop. Well, we made up charges of C4 for the two divers (I think one of them was MCpl Dave Morrison) and they went under the ice with safety lines attached, placed the charges upriver and all the ice turned into mush for hundreds of metres.

It was so bloody cold, like -30 to -40, that we had to thaw out the C4 over our mountain stoves so we could work with it. Had real winters in those days. None of this global warming business back then.

I remember the dive shack wasn't in the Z or P lines where most of the unit's assets were; I think it was over in the 8CH lines near the Coriano Club.

Lots of fun. Tried to do the dive course but the ears weren't up to it.

Death Tech Extraordinaire :skull:
 
S6,

I've tried to get them to turn down the temperature in the Base pool, but it just won't freeze. ;)
 
joe said:
I've tried to get them to turn down the temperature in the Base pool, but it just won't freeze. ;)

Oh boy......biting my tongue here  ;D
 
Combat Divers do what they are allowed to do at the era in question. It started as safety support and recovery for the APC's when Canada first got them. The first Cbt divers used re breathers the same as CD's at the time! Jobs expanded as there was support for them, being engineers naturally expanded that into cbt and tech recce, construction and U/W Demolition because that's what Engineers do! Any of you other trades out there do that stuff as your bread and butter?????????? (not an add on crse).

Doing U/W demolitions led to connections with US UDT teams as SUE's, They later all turned into SEAL tm's. You do what your capable of, finaced for and can get away with.  I did lots of trg w/ other special forces and didn't have any trouble keeping up or even showing them a thing or two. If Cbt divers weren't credible than all thoughts other countries special forces and other divers wouldn't have keeped coming to Canada's little "ex Roguish buoy" every year for the last.... what 30 or so years!!!! Any of you other trades got a claim like that?.... eh?

Politics, conflicting tasks, conflicting ideologies of what we are, being a small trade, the Navy and a couple other things are allways grinding the bit into a Cbt divers teeth......grrrrrrrr. I did it long enough to watch the wheel go around and around and around on the trg and what the Job is. That's the problem and that's why I stopped. I mention this because I read some of these posts and laugh lol..lol..lol. As guys ask questions about things that "were done " 20 years ago, 10 years ago....etc. Go ask your crusty old "NCO" Dive supr's or come up with a plan and experiment with it. That's how we learned (knowledge which is obviously forgoten now) Go read through all those old RB ex after action reports. Tones of lost knowledge there!!!!!!!

To all you Cbt divers out there... Be safe.. and keep Plodding away (old joke) you know what to do and how to get the job done! What ever it is. If you need hrs U/W take a nap....proficiency is ..in, job done, out (when your frozen, cant see a thing, fighting the current and in a rough sea at night!)

.....Zee
 
Zee,

Welcome to Army.ca!

I suppose as an old diver but a new member to Army.ca you are entitled to your rant.  It took me a couple of reads to find out what your point was, but I think I get it now.  Please allow me to paraphrase you and add my 2 cents.

In summary, you said that Canadian Combat Divers do what they can with the resources they are given - yes, I would agree with that.  Secondly, you think that Combat Divers are just as good as any of the foreign divers and we shouldn't be ashamed of that - yes, I would agree with that in the main, however there are some specialist units that are more proficient than we are in certain skills - goes back to your first point.  Finally, you say that there are a lot of lessons that have been lost over the past 30 yrs - not sure I would agree with you on that.  The establishment of the Army Dive Centre (ADC) at CFSME Gagetown, NB has gone a long way towards archiving and implementing lessons learned.  In fact, ADC through Land Force Doctrine and Training System (LFDTS) has recently issued combat dive doctrine (2006) that was years in the making.  Sure there will always be "ticks of the trade" that are learned at the tactical level - let's call them TTPs - but those will constantly have to be updated as equipment and technology changes.

S6
 
Hey Z, long time no hear. Appreciate your comments. FYI, the ADC has lots of irons in the fire to try to do its bit to develop a "relevant and effective" diving capability for the Army, we just don't have the best public affairs plan to let the rest of the dive community know about it, and we are awaiting decisions on a few key issues before we "go public."

Right now the teams are just trying to keep their heads above water as op tempo and the nature of the operating environment (desert!) has pushed diving to the outer edge of the radar screen. The ADC is doing what it can to "keep the dream alive" :) Hopefully, no later than end-Apr we'll be able to make a statement on the way ahead...could be good, could be not so good from our point of view.

On a positive note, a couple of the ADC staff are off to the University of Iowa to take a course on underwater bridge inspection put on by the US National Highway Institute. Hopefully, the info will be stuff we can put directly into our diver and supervisor trg and maybe it'll open doors for additional contacts with other US trg orgs or eqpt distributors. That's the great thing about the ADC, we immediately put lessons learned into our trg for the next course. We squeeze in a helluva lot of trg into that 11 week course these days and we got lots more planned. More to follow if things work out.

Hey, FYI, I found out about the course from an Alabama State dive inspector while I was knocking back drinks with Steve and Al in the Coyote Ugly bar in New Orleans (even while playing, the ADC is always working for you and the Army!8)).
 
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