All Things CF Firefighter (merged)

[KJL]

Honestly, if you're goal is to get into a civi fire dept you may as well spend your time getting your Firefighter type 1 and 2 and additional courses and then prepare for a long haul. Hamilton hired for 24 spots this past year, thousands applied apparently. Some depts, mostly from what Ive seen out west, even charge fees to apply just to narrow down the numbers and those are on top of maintaining your certifications.  The reason I say to prepare for the long haul is I completed TEEX's course down in Texas last June and of the class, 18 or so of the 40 were Canadian. Not one of us that Im aware of is currently working for a civi fire dept. Basically, the process is long, expensive and tough...and having worked for another fire dept may or may not help because that means your trained to their way of doing things which may not be the target dept's.  Don't mean to dump on your goal, firefighting is fantastic, I decided to go a different route but I dont regret a second of the training I received. I'd recommend talking with a few local fire depts in your are and see what they're thought is on going to the Forces.

Best of luck in getting on though!

 

[The_Falcon]

lol thanks for the insightful post  :

Anyways that is what I plan on doing.

Be sure to mention that to the recruiters, that will earn you bonus points and make you a shoe in :

 

[X-mo-1979]

Be sure to mention that to the recruiters, that will earn you bonus points and make you a shoe in :

And can someone please tell me what is so wrong about a man giving service to his country for 3 years? 3-5 years of service seems like payment enough for a army ran course doesnt it?

 

[blacktriangle]

Last I checked, the army relies on the 3 year comittments of young strong backed individuals like myself...

A soldier for 3 years is better then a soldier for none, both for the person and the CF as a whole.

...unless they spent their whole contract on PAT platoon  ;D

 

[fire_guy686]

And can someone please tell me what is so wrong about a man giving service to his country for 3 years? 3-5 years of service seems like payment enough for a army ran course doesnt it?

People like this don't join to "serve their country". They join to get free training that would otherwise cost an arm and a leg in civi world, with no guarantee of work afterwards. Here they get trained, and very well and they have a job for 3-5 years while they look for something better outside. I know a lot of people who do this, especially with the Firefighter trade. This guy, and many like him will probably get that chance and the people who do want this as a life long career get the shaft.

 

[X-mo-1979]

People like this don't join to "serve their country". They join to get free training that would otherwise cost an arm and a leg in civi world, with no guarantee of work afterwards. Here they get trained, and very well and they have a job for 3-5 years while they look for something better outside. I know a lot of people who do this, especially with the Firefighter trade. This guy, and many like him will get that chance and the people who do want this as a life long career get the shaft.

Why would he get home of an opportunity than you to get on the course?If he is better trained or placed better on testing YES he will get ahead of you.Maybe we should make firefighters sign a 30 year contract and shoot them if they wish to get out.
As I said it's an army ran course,a member gives 5 years of service as far as I'm concerned he has "paid" his due's and can do as he please.

Why not stop worrying about the "other guy" and focus on your skills so you can not miss out on selection.So you get in instead of another applicant who may be planning to do what you say,and go on to serve 25 years as a firefighter.

Give yourself a few years and I'm sure you'll agree,I for certain once "thunk" just like you.As the years go by you get more mellow,and you realise getting angry at others does nothing for you.Be happy for them and everything becomes easier....You'll see.

It's sorta like getting mad at a guy in the store who bought the last icecream for 50 cents and threw it in the garbage in front of you......even though you only got 29 cents and couldn't buy it anyway. ;D

 

[fire_guy686]

Why would he get home of an opportunity than you to get on the course?If he is better trained or placed better on testing YES he will get ahead of you.Maybe we should make firefighters sign a 30 year contract and shoot them if they wish to get out.
As I said it's an army ran course,a member gives 5 years of service as far as I'm concerned he has "paid" his due's and can do as he please.

Why not stop worrying about the "other guy" and focus on your skills so you can not miss out on selection.So you get in instead of another applicant who may be planning to do what you say,and go on to serve 25 years as a firefighter.

Give yourself a few years and I'm sure you'll agree,I for certain once "thunk" just like you.As the years go by you get more mellow,and you realise getting angry at others does nothing for you.Be happy for them and everything becomes easier....You'll see.

It's sorta like getting mad at a guy in the store who bought the last icecream for 50 cents and threw it in the garbage in front of you......even though you only got 29 cents and couldn't buy it anyway. ;D

That doesn't sound like a half bad idea. ;D ;D

I'm not too worried about selection right now anyways because I am in a trade and happy with it.

Most of my feelings towards that draw from being a person who spent a lot of time and a lot money in getting trained on civi side, waiting forever to get an offer for that trade and then having to choose another trade just so I could get a secure job and be able to support myself. So now I have certificates and for what?? To collect dust. So maybe you can see why I have an attitude towards people like this. I'll be over it soon as I have a beer tonight and it will be forgotten. ;D

 

[The_Falcon]

And can someone please tell me what is so wrong about a man giving service to his country for 3 years? 3-5 years of service seems like payment enough for a army ran course doesnt it?

FF is an airforce course actually, and there is nothing wrong with someone only doing their first engagment, and then leaving.  Some people realize the CF isn't for them and the get out.  But going in with the attitude that the CF is only a stepping stone, to gain better civi employment after that first contract is just wrong.  People who do this take up spots on courses that might other wise go to people who would stay in the CF for possibly their entire career (and thus saving the CF the time and expense of hiring and training a new person).  We are already shorthanded for most trades, why exacerbate the problem if you can avoid it.

 

[CFR FCS]

I'm not sure which is the most competitive occupation to get into Pilot or Fire Fighter. The Forces takes very few totally unskilled Fire Fighters off the street, usually the applicants who are selected are semi skilled, meaning they have some prior training and experience as a Fire Fighter. Anyone can apply but beware it is very competitive. As for the free training during your first contract , the Forces isn't totally stupid and I'm quite sure you get the majority of your "marketable civie" training after you reengage with a longer contract. 

Best of Luck.

 

[The_Falcon]

I'm not sure which is the most competitive occupation to get into Pilot or Fire Fighter. The Forces takes very few totally unskilled Fire Fighters off the street, usually the applicants who are selected are semi skilled, meaning they have some prior training and experience as a Fire Fighter. Anyone can apply but beware it is very competitive. As for the free training during your first contract , the Forces isn't totally stupid and I'm quite sure you get the majority of your "marketable civie" training after you reengage with a longer contract. 
Best of Luck.

That would depend on the trade then I guess.

 

[Great white Hype]

Well for the record, I as well as many others I know have applied to the Armed Forces for the Firefighter trade. We all have a few years experience in firefighting, NFPA 1001 as well as II, some of us--like myself are certified EMR and we have all been told that the most likely scenario for employment with DND is to re-muster into the Firefighting trade. Much like Civilian life I suppose in that to become a Firefighter you need luck on your side. Best of luck to all who succeed in obtaining this trade.

 

[Harbinger]

The scenario of folks getting in off the street, staying until they get their seals and then getting out is recognized as a major problem in the FF trade right now. It takes 3 years before a recruit FF finishes their QL5's  - at this point they are fully employable in a firehall just as their BE is up.  Not very cost-effective for the military. Guys often get their NFPA seals and then get out before they go on a ship posting thus passing on the burden to the guys that stay in.

Certain initiatives are being looked at such as with-holding NFPA Certifications until a second engagement has been signed. So be aware that the days of getting in, getting your seals and then getting out before needing to serve in a less attractive posting, may be over.

 

[CAPER008]

Alright...new to this and was searching by chance and came across this thread...very interesting so I signed up. I'm actually a Sgt in the ARMD Corp. posted to the Infantry School at the moment. However, this all comes to an end on July 1st when I head down to the Firehall on base for a little OJT. Yep, after a few years of struggling with the fact that I wanted to OT and that firefighting is what keeps me going, I got my OT. I drop to Cpl on the 14th July and put the blue stuff on and I can't wait. These comments have been great. Answered a few points for myself that I won't have to bother anyone else about. I'm looking forward to the career change in a big way and I will hopefully bring some good things to the table when I get over there. I do have 2 1/2 years of experience in a volunteer department that is actually quite busy however , I'm going to Borden (or Memorial) to learn the ways of the CF firefighter. Eyes and ears open and your mouth shut ..so was said to me about 11 years back when I joined the Army

 

[Scott]

Wait. Both Borden and MUN are doing courses for the CF now?

 

[CAPER008]

Yes...the CF has contracted out. MUN has or is about to graduate some CF firefighters. Too many troops not enough instructors is the cause for this from what I"m told. MUN is a good school but I'd rather go to Borden...I know it is probably the best School in Canada for firefighting and is right up there for North America. That, and Borden is 4 months as opposed to 7 in St. John's. Not a whole lot of places the Mil. can contract out to due to the ARFF....maybe Vermillion. My fingers are crossed for Borden. If anyone else knows more or different...let us all know, Cheers

 

[Dano651]

The trade had a major review of all QL levels. The Fire Fighter basic course Qualification Standard for QL3 is now completed, with the Training Plan approved the new adjusted Firefighting course will be a average of 170 training days. This will include: EMR, Driver operator, Hazmat Tech, and Firefighter IFSAC Lvl 2. We already have the First Gradutes from Stephenville on their way to the Bases, a second course is in progress at this time.

 

[Dano651]

More info on the Firefighter courses. So that every one can have an understanding of the terms, here is a small explanation.

To start we have the Occupational Specification (OS) this paper define all the tasks a firefighter must know or do at each level of his/hers training / qualification,

From the OS a working group will develop the Qualification Standards (QS) for each courses IE :
QUALIFICATION STANDARD
00149 APPRENTICE FIRE FIGHTER 
REGULAR FORCE:  MOSID 00149 (MOC 651), ACAW
RESERVE FORCE:  MOSID 00149  (MOC 651), ACAW

From the given QS a working group will develop the Training Plan (TP)  the TP will define all require training, time needed,

CHAPTER 1 - GENERAL

Aim
Outline of Training
Training Strategy
Use of Training Plan


CHAPTER 2 - TRAINING MANAGEMENT DETAILS

Responsible Agencies and Training Establishments
Scheduling
Prerequisites
Training Duration
Instructor Allocation
Capacity
Language of Instruction
Environmental Considerations
Qualification
Related Documents
Terminology
Training Support
Training Limitations

CHAPTER 3 - ASSESSMENT

General
Supplemental Assessment
Progress Monitoring
Removal from Training
Reports

CHAPTER 4 – LESSON SPECIFICATIONS

PO 001 Perform Alarm Room Duties
  EO 001.01 Perform Alarm Room Duties
  EO 001.02 Describe Fire Service History and Culture
PO 002 Operate Fire Apparatus
  EO 002.01 Fulfill Basic Driver Skills
  EO 002.02 Demonstrate Basic Driver Fundamentals
  EO 002.03 Operate Structural Fire Apparatus
  EO 002.04 Operate Aerial Fire Apparatus
  EO 002.05 Operate Aircraft Rescue Fire Fighting (ARFF) Apparatus
PO 003 Don Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)
  EO 003.01 Maintain Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)
  EO 003.02 Use self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA)
  EO 003.03 Operate breathing air compressor
PO 004 Achieve and maintain the Fire Fighter Physical Fitness
  EO 004.01 Perform a pre-fire fighter fitness evaluation
  EO 004.02 Perform first level evaluation
  EO 004.03 Perform second level evaluation
  EO 004.04 Perform third level evaluation
PO 005 Perform Emergency Medical First Response
  EO 005.01 Perform Emergency Medical First Response
PO 006 Perform Wildland Fire Fighting Techniques
  EO 006.01 Recognize Wildland Fire Behaviour
  EO 006.02 Employ Wildland Fire Equipment
  EO 006.03 Employ Wildland Fire Suppression Techniques
PO 007 Assist with Fire Prevention and Life Safety (FPLS) practices
  EO 007.01 Determine the Building Construction
  EO 007.02 Interpret Building Manuals, Codes and Standards
  EO 007.03 Assist with Fire Prevention Duties
PO 008 Operate Ancillary Equipment
  EO 008.01 Using Ropes and Knots
  EO 008.02 Using Forcible Entry Tools
  EO 008.03 Using Ground Ladders
  EO 008.04 Using Fire Hoses
PO 009 Operate Portable Fire Extinguishers
  EO 009.01 Identify the Types of Fire
  EO 009.02 Select Portable Fire Extinguishers
  EO 009.03 Maintain Portable Fire Extinguishers
PO 010 Execute Aircraft Rescue Fire Fighting (ARFF) Operations
  EO 010.01 Identify Airport Characteristics (airport familiarization)
  EO 010.02 Identify Aircraft Characteristics (aircraft familiarization)
  EO 010.03 Apply ARFF Fire Fighting Safety
  EO 010.04 Perform ARFF Communications
  EO 010.05 Perform Aircraft Fire Fighting
PO 011 Execute Difficult Rescue Techniques
  EO 011.01 Explain Search and Rescue Incident Management
  EO 011.02 Operate Rescue and Extrication Tools and Equipment
  EO 011.03 Apply Vehicle Extrication Techniques
  EO 011.04 Assist in Technical Rescue Incidents
  EO 011.05 Apply Rope Rescue Techniques
PO 012 Execute Structural Fire Fighting Operations
  EO 012.01 Apply Firefighter Health and Safety
  EO 012.02 Perform Rescue and Extrication Techniques
  EO 012.03 Perform Forcible Entry
  EO 012.04 Perform Ventilation
  EO 012.05 Connecting to a Water Supply Sources
  EO 012.06 Operate Fire Hose
  EO 012.07 Identify Fire Stream Patterns and Foam Applications
  EO 012.08 Apply Fire Control Suppression Techniques
  EO 012.09 Relay Structural Size-up Information
  EO 012.10 Explain Various Fire Detection Systems
  EO 012.11 Perform Loss Control
  EO 012.12 Protect Fire Scene Evidence
  EO 012.13 Perform Flashover Simulator Training
PO 013 Identify Hazardous Materials as a First responder
  EO 013.01 Define Hazardous Materials (HazMat)
  EO 013.02 Initiate the Operations of HazMat incidents
PO 014 Conduct Duties of HazMat Technician
  EO 014.01 Adhere to Health and Safety Practices
  EO 014.02 Describe Incident Command System (ICS)
  EO 014.03 Assess the HazMat / Dangerous Goods (DG) spill incident
  EO 014.04 Initiate HazMat Emergency Response Plan
  EO 014.05 Use Specialized HazMat Personal Protective Equipment
  EO 014.06 Implement Planned Response to HazMat/DG Incidents
  EO 014.07 Perform Decontamination
  EO 014.08 Participate in Terminating the Incident
PO 015 Conduct CBRN Operations
  EO 015.01 Recognize Terrorisms
  EO 015.02 Recognize Chemicals Agents
  EO 015.03 Recognize Biological Agents
  EO 015.04 Recognize Radiological Agents
  EO 015.05 Operate CBRN Personnel Protective and Detection Equipment
  EO 015.06 Perform Casualty Management
  EO 015.07 Perform Decontamination (Decon) Techniques
  EO 015.08 Conduct CBRN Hazard Assessment


From the TP the  training establishment will develop the appropriate Master Lesson Plan (MLP) which will be use by the instructor to present the teaching points required. MLP will contain all the lesson, the teaching aids, the Training aids, class duration, assessment techniques, etc.


So from this the new QL3 Firefighter is expected to be 174 training days. Because this will be a new training CFFA will need to run a Pilot Course to assest the validity of this course, the expected course should be run later this summer or early fall.

 

[CAPER008]

Excellent information.....good explanations for those that are not familiar with QS and TP procedures. I know all too well about these areas as I've been an instructor at both the Armour and Infantry Schools for almost 3 years now. Beggars can't be choosers but I'll take whatever course I can be it a pilot or not. By the sounds of it it will only be a better course once the kinks are massaged.  !74 training days are a lot but when you get into something you love...fine and dandy. Now...a fellow just needs to prepare himself to be ready to MARCH around again on the other side of the coin. Dano, I have one question for you....Have they finished the review to see if 00149 is eligible as a Spec Trade? Sounds greedy but man, I'm going to be losing close to $400 a month from my pay...haha. Thanks.

 

[Dano651]

The power to be are still looking into the spec pay side for the trade. After we had the major review with MOZAR all the task we were performing ,like EMR, confine space rescue, high angle rescue, Hazmat tech , are now part of core training. As you know those were not identify in the tasks before the review. I hope the new Firefighter have the chance at spec pay, for me it could be to late when and if it happens.

 

[aesop081]

After we had the major review with MOZAR

MOSART

http://www.revue.mdn.ca/engraph/Vol7/no4/PDF/03-letters_e.pdf