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Captain Sensible said:
Love it, that sums up what I sat and laboured over trying to express my feelings and experience with women in the CF.
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Australia unlike Canada does not have women in combat arms trades, but there are loopholes, support trades attached to said units.
Australia has been challenged to open such trades to females by womens groups and politicians (all were told to stay in their lanes and butt out of how things are ran), but in short thats a long way from ever happening. A huge influence was the RSL (our legion), the Corps in question, and others, as there really is no such thing as being PC on this subject in our Army (yet). We do nothing to appease the minorities, as its all about combat power and its preservation.
I am far from sexist, but being at the pointy end for real, against an enemy with extreme islamic beliefs, who ALREADY have no respect for their own women, honestly I am happy we did not have any with us when, in fact things got hairy (shy of three females in total of the whole Unit who were outside the combat arms trades).
Regards,
Wes
Australia has been challenged to open such trades to females by womens groups and politicians (all were told to stay in their lanes and butt out of how things are ran), but in short thats a long way from ever happening. A huge influence was the RSL (our legion), the Corps in question, and others, as there really is no such thing as being PC on this subject in our Army (yet). We do nothing to appease the minorities, as its all about combat power and its preservation.
I am far from sexist, but being at the pointy end for real, against an enemy with extreme islamic beliefs, who ALREADY have no respect for their own women, honestly I am happy we did not have any with us when, in fact things got hairy (shy of three females in total of the whole Unit who were outside the combat arms trades).
Regards,
Wes
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***DIRECTING STAFF***
If I am outside my own lane here, please feel free to delete this post, and PM me if there's a problem.
I've gone back and read over "Sig"s posts, and took a peek at his almost non existant profile, and I'm sorry but I gotta call bullshit on him even being in the CF. Just too many "civvy-isms" where there should be military terminology ie- "bosses" instead of Officers/Senior NCO's, etc.
Not to mention that he started back-peddelling so hard I could smell the rubber when our ladies called him on his comments.
If I am outside my own lane here, please feel free to delete this post, and PM me if there's a problem.
I've gone back and read over "Sig"s posts, and took a peek at his almost non existant profile, and I'm sorry but I gotta call bullshit on him even being in the CF. Just too many "civvy-isms" where there should be military terminology ie- "bosses" instead of Officers/Senior NCO's, etc.
Not to mention that he started back-peddelling so hard I could smell the rubber when our ladies called him on his comments.
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Hey, we could agree to disagree all we want about women in combat arms units, torture and rape are simply that, but overall the general western public would be more horrified if a woman was taken prisoner, raped and tortured than a man.
I have an opinion, and the last thing I want to do is start a shytestorm over it. My post was just comparing the CF policy to the ADF policy, nothing more.
I am no longer a member of the CF, and they practice what they do, but here the current model used by the Australian Army works for us.
Cheers,
Wes
I have an opinion, and the last thing I want to do is start a shytestorm over it. My post was just comparing the CF policy to the ADF policy, nothing more.
I am no longer a member of the CF, and they practice what they do, but here the current model used by the Australian Army works for us.
Cheers,
Wes
- Reaction score
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Wesley Down Under said:
Wes,
No shitstorm here. At least you put out the policy rather than just prattle off about the evils of women. There's a big difference.
As a female though, here's how I see it.
YES, the western public would be truly horrified if a female soldier was taken prisoner, tortured and raped. I would hope though that they'd be just as horrified if this were to happen to a male soldier.
Say you have a lassie able to volunteer to do the job and who can perform in that role just as well as a man. She is precluded by policy from doing so. If the reason that the policy precludes her from doing so is based on public perception in the west and how bad they would react to her rape/torture etc then, ironically, the policy effectively would be catering to exactly those political and self-interest groups who don't want to see that occur to a female and believe that only male soldiers should be subjected to this possibility. Despite the fact other political and other self-interest groups were told to keep out of the debate. I'd argue that no-one ever wants to see that occur, to a male or female soldier. Either way the decision goes, it IS catering to someones beliefs and interests.
That's fine, as long as its catering for the right reasons. As a soldier, I'd hope those interests of the military I serve in, and their policy decisions, would be based upon the ability to soldier, warfight, and get the darn job done; not sex, and certainly not upon public, political, media, or even a fellow soldiers opinion about what the enemy could do to me. The enemy can do that to men too.
Edited for damn typos.
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Another point about the combat arms VS non combat arms trades....
with the nature of warfighting that has evolved in such places as Afghanistan and Iraq, there are no real front lines & safe(er) rear areas. That medic / truck driver / mechanic outside the base perimeter is just as much at risk as the Infantryman / Sapper / Crewman / Gunner.... be they Fem / Male.
with the nature of warfighting that has evolved in such places as Afghanistan and Iraq, there are no real front lines & safe(er) rear areas. That medic / truck driver / mechanic outside the base perimeter is just as much at risk as the Infantryman / Sapper / Crewman / Gunner.... be they Fem / Male.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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geo said:
There's a big misconception out there about support roles. It's about the position they are in and the role they are filling, not the trade. There are zero trades working inside the wire at KAF too on a daily basis because that's the role they just happen to be filling. The support folk may not be out there daily, if ever as their role dictates, but there are indeed some out there.
I've gotten some really good pics from over there sent to me from some of the males and females who have previously worked for me out in the middle of the big marijuana fields and outside the wire. Who'd have thunk it for a suppie eh?
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SiG_22_Qc said:
Hey Sig, right now I train Jimmies in Kingston. If you know anything about the military you'll recognize my name and figure out who I am. Looking forward to seeing you this fall for IBTS training!
By the way, in over 20 years of service, I can't honestly remember how many courses(as both candidate and instructor) I have only had 2 people cry. Both Jimmies, both male. Maybe you were one of them!
- Reaction score
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SiG_22_Qc said:
It's not locked because the women have been doing the job (CREW) for 19 years now.
It may be a controversial subject for you, but the vast majority of us ... built the bridge and crossed it years ago. To us it's no longer controversial, the deed is done, the job gets done, and we are here to stay.
Have a good day yourself.
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I think you have been owned by so many people on this board Sig_22_Qc the only one that does not realize it is you, quit while you still have some dignity.
M
mudrecceman
Guest
SiG_22_Qc said:
Well I just read the thread and your posts. If you were fishing...nah I'll call bs on that. You just took a pounding and are saying "ya well I wasn't really fighting back, so there".
1 short story for you Sig.
Winter ex...I have my Tp- heading to our OP Base/Tp biv...I am up breaking trail for my sled, and hear a female voice "get up Bloggins. Bloggins, get the puck up now!".
Bloggins, a male, after only 500 meters or so, who was in the 2nd harness on the toboggan, had fallen and was laying face first in the snow, unable to hold his body, his fighting and winter marching order, and pull on the tobaggan. My 2 i/c was a female recce soldier, and she helped him up, helped him get out of his ruck, giving him the required amount of embarassing comments about his physical robustness, strapped his ruck on the top of the toboggan, and we carried on.
Bloggins spent the entire winter FTX in the TENT (sick with SBS...Sore Bum Sydrome), when we were already doing a Tp task (our Recce Tp those days was 20 soldiers and 1 officer) with 14 all ranks. He made it one less.
Thanks for coming out.
And if you read the words under my name upper left, you will see what I said to that young, weak male soldier who became a burden to us 2 days into the ex when we were all tired cold and overtasked...he tapped out when the first 5 man tent was up. :
He (yes *HE*) was actually both...and then some.
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