a problem...wonder if i'm alone....
- Thread starter Procrast
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Do what Dajanou said mate, advertise for a vet to come along with you. I can promise you that if you promise him or her a whole roomful of Granola munchers, you'll get a bunch of hands up from people who want to do some re-education. Just make sure if you do bring them into that class with you no throat punching goes on. Seriously though, look into it, i'm sure someone would live near and be willing to help out.
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The first part of this post may appear to be a little off thread,but please bear with me and I will
make my point.In 1958 I was a young soldier in training in Kingston Ont.and every weekend I
had a pass I would hitchhike to Windsor, an 800 mile round trip,to see a girl what else.In uniform
I would sometimes beat people who drove their own cars,hitchhiking was so easy people would
fall over themselves to help soldiers.Just over 10 years later I was again on course in Kingston
and decided to hitchhike to Windsor in uniform to visit my parents,the girl married someone else,while I
did not get spit on, a couple of times people ran off road and showered me with gravel,also cars
stopped, waited until I got to the door and drove off leaving me standing in a cloud of dust.I gave
up in Toronto and took the train the rest of the way getting to Windsor the next day.At the time I
was stationed in Germany and it came as a great shock to me that I got more respect and sympathy
there than in my own country.How could this happen?,one word,Vietnam,but there were no Canadian
troops in Vietnam I hear you say,it did not make any difference to the left wing students and their
brain dead supporters, they they just followed the lead of their equally idiotic peers down south.
The leaders of this movement decided the establishment was rotten,the cops were pigs,and
the military were babykillers and part of a gigantic conspiracy to rob young people of their freedom
and the Canadian youth bought into this,they seem to have no ideas of their own,the media jumped
on the band waggon and people who knew better just shut up.This is the generation that most of
your professors came from and may explain some of their attitudes and opinions,but just as they were
wrong then they are wrong now. However the fact that young people enter this site and ask the
questions that are being asked gives me grounds for optimism.
Regards
make my point.In 1958 I was a young soldier in training in Kingston Ont.and every weekend I
had a pass I would hitchhike to Windsor, an 800 mile round trip,to see a girl what else.In uniform
I would sometimes beat people who drove their own cars,hitchhiking was so easy people would
fall over themselves to help soldiers.Just over 10 years later I was again on course in Kingston
and decided to hitchhike to Windsor in uniform to visit my parents,the girl married someone else,while I
did not get spit on, a couple of times people ran off road and showered me with gravel,also cars
stopped, waited until I got to the door and drove off leaving me standing in a cloud of dust.I gave
up in Toronto and took the train the rest of the way getting to Windsor the next day.At the time I
was stationed in Germany and it came as a great shock to me that I got more respect and sympathy
there than in my own country.How could this happen?,one word,Vietnam,but there were no Canadian
troops in Vietnam I hear you say,it did not make any difference to the left wing students and their
brain dead supporters, they they just followed the lead of their equally idiotic peers down south.
The leaders of this movement decided the establishment was rotten,the cops were pigs,and
the military were babykillers and part of a gigantic conspiracy to rob young people of their freedom
and the Canadian youth bought into this,they seem to have no ideas of their own,the media jumped
on the band waggon and people who knew better just shut up.This is the generation that most of
your professors came from and may explain some of their attitudes and opinions,but just as they were
wrong then they are wrong now. However the fact that young people enter this site and ask the
questions that are being asked gives me grounds for optimism.
Regards
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I had a prof that was insisting in a Canadian history class that 1914-1918 was important because of the growth of the acceptable responsibilities of women, and the ensuing right for women to vote. There might have been a war somewhere. If there was, it certainly wasn't as important as women voting (not that I am saying universal sufferage isn't important). Equally sad when not a single student bothered to ask about the war that may or may not have happened.
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I'm a civilian, so feel free to disregard..... ;D
I was prompted to join this ARMY.ca by a raging argument with a member of
my wife's family. My own sister belongs to the liberal arts - hate the establishment
crowd mentioned above. Her boyfriend has son who is serving and
it has come up more than once that being in uniform in public is great in the UK
or the US, only in Canada is it disrespected.( as well as other arguments )
A uniform imparts a certain celebrity. In Canada it's like being the accordion player at a rock concert.
We are afflicted by a "peaceable kingdom" mythology.
Canadians simply don't realize that Canada has enemies.
We don't understand what "national interest" means.
And we don't get that national defence is not optional.
I have tried to see the other side - It just doesn't add up.
All I have seen is sentiment and feelings.
No one debates the virtue of law and order.
No one seriously questions the need for banks, the press, the government.
No one questions the need for education ( insert irony here ).
The military is the only national institution Canadians don't understand
or regard as fundamental to nationhood.
Canada needs to grow up.
I think it's vital for thinking people to speak up - I understand serving members are constrained. If I get a chance I speak up, and anyone wants me to write something
like a letter to the editor, PM me.
I was prompted to join this ARMY.ca by a raging argument with a member of
my wife's family. My own sister belongs to the liberal arts - hate the establishment
crowd mentioned above. Her boyfriend has son who is serving and
it has come up more than once that being in uniform in public is great in the UK
or the US, only in Canada is it disrespected.( as well as other arguments )
A uniform imparts a certain celebrity. In Canada it's like being the accordion player at a rock concert.
We are afflicted by a "peaceable kingdom" mythology.
Canadians simply don't realize that Canada has enemies.
We don't understand what "national interest" means.
And we don't get that national defence is not optional.
I have tried to see the other side - It just doesn't add up.
All I have seen is sentiment and feelings.
No one debates the virtue of law and order.
No one seriously questions the need for banks, the press, the government.
No one questions the need for education ( insert irony here ).
The military is the only national institution Canadians don't understand
or regard as fundamental to nationhood.
Canada needs to grow up.
I think it's vital for thinking people to speak up - I understand serving members are constrained. If I get a chance I speak up, and anyone wants me to write something
like a letter to the editor, PM me.
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R.O.S said:All I hear is how the military is pure evil and how Canada should set an example by eliminating our own military (really, this is discussed). I say, you enjoy your freedom?... thank a VET
!
How ironic that the same folks who say we don't need a military because the Americans will protect us, are the first ones to complain that the Americans are evil. No country gives anything away for free, and one can only imagine the cost to Canada for America's protection.
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I took a course last year called War and Terrorism.
Myself and one other were pretty much the only non-hippies there.
Luckily, very very few of them ever figured out I was a member of the CF, might have been bad.
Luckily, the actual professor held a somewhat non-biased stance (She was obviously anti American / anti Bush, but was still willing to listen to any view and argue against them using reason and logic, even admitted defeat a couple of times.)
Myself and one other were pretty much the only non-hippies there.
Luckily, very very few of them ever figured out I was a member of the CF, might have been bad.
Luckily, the actual professor held a somewhat non-biased stance (She was obviously anti American / anti Bush, but was still willing to listen to any view and argue against them using reason and logic, even admitted defeat a couple of times.)
TangoTwoBravo
Army.ca Veteran
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Procrast,
It can be tough to stand alone because of your views, especially in school if you are going against the professor.
With regards to the mission, the debate can focus on the "why" of the mission as well as the "how."
Canada is there as part of a coalition as a direct result of the 9/11 attacks. While the terrorists on the airplanes were not "Afghans", they had trained there. Al-Queda was intertwined with the Taliban regime. Al-Queda and the Taliban arose after the US had been actively involved in supporting the Mujahadeen against the Soviets.
Coalition forces are in Afghanistan to support the legitimate, democratically-elected Government of Afghanistan (GoA). Once the Taliban were out of power, the Bonn agreement instituted a Transitional Authority with President Karzai. A series of Constitutional Loya Jirgas (with UN involvement) were convened that hammered out how power would be shared in Afghanistan (a constitution). Democratic elections occured in 2004/2005. Coalition forces are there to assist that democratically elected Government of Afghanistan while the GoA developed its own security forces. Coalition forces give the GoA some breathing space to deal with the insurgency and other potential opponents. To abandon them would be to plunge Afghanistan into an all-out civil war as was seen in the mid-90s. The stage would be set for Al-Queda and the Taliban to come back.
As for the 'how', many critics are opposed to the 'offensive' operations undertaken. Canada's strategy is the 3D approach of Defence, Diplomacy and Development. The intent is to develop Afghanistan, but the Taliban actively counter development projects. They behead teachers in front of the students and burn schools. Sitting back in secure bases to the north will not defeat the insurgency or allow development in the south. Coalition forces certainly kill Taliban forces.
Good luck with your class. I doubt you'll sway the crowd or your teacher.
It can be tough to stand alone because of your views, especially in school if you are going against the professor.
With regards to the mission, the debate can focus on the "why" of the mission as well as the "how."
Canada is there as part of a coalition as a direct result of the 9/11 attacks. While the terrorists on the airplanes were not "Afghans", they had trained there. Al-Queda was intertwined with the Taliban regime. Al-Queda and the Taliban arose after the US had been actively involved in supporting the Mujahadeen against the Soviets.
Coalition forces are in Afghanistan to support the legitimate, democratically-elected Government of Afghanistan (GoA). Once the Taliban were out of power, the Bonn agreement instituted a Transitional Authority with President Karzai. A series of Constitutional Loya Jirgas (with UN involvement) were convened that hammered out how power would be shared in Afghanistan (a constitution). Democratic elections occured in 2004/2005. Coalition forces are there to assist that democratically elected Government of Afghanistan while the GoA developed its own security forces. Coalition forces give the GoA some breathing space to deal with the insurgency and other potential opponents. To abandon them would be to plunge Afghanistan into an all-out civil war as was seen in the mid-90s. The stage would be set for Al-Queda and the Taliban to come back.
As for the 'how', many critics are opposed to the 'offensive' operations undertaken. Canada's strategy is the 3D approach of Defence, Diplomacy and Development. The intent is to develop Afghanistan, but the Taliban actively counter development projects. They behead teachers in front of the students and burn schools. Sitting back in secure bases to the north will not defeat the insurgency or allow development in the south. Coalition forces certainly kill Taliban forces.
Good luck with your class. I doubt you'll sway the crowd or your teacher.
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I had pretty much the same experiences in high school, back in 1995-1996. In my history 12 class, I was the only person in my graduating class that was a cadet for 5 years, member of the Reserves, and the only one considering making the military a career at that time. My teacher, a relic from the days of "hippyism", continually tried to make it a point that military training was a form of brainwashing, as no ordinary, sane person would ever want to go through all the training, etc. especially with the ending goal being to kill people (well, the military ain't normal, and sane could be argued as well, but that isn't the point, lol 
). She even knew that I was enlisted, and apologized to me afterwards, but was just "stating the truth". I simply looked at her and replied, "You have just brainwashed every person in this class with your liberalistic views. It is men like I, that have been "brainwashed", that have enabled you to publicly declare the views that you have done so today." I had a few problems with the rest of the kids in the class, wanting to pick fights with me, just to claim they could beat up some one in the military, and wanting to say they are actually just weaklings, etc. I owe it to the years of self discipline that I had not reacted with my fists, but instead with silence, and simply walking away from them.
). She even knew that I was enlisted, and apologized to me afterwards, but was just "stating the truth". I simply looked at her and replied, "You have just brainwashed every person in this class with your liberalistic views. It is men like I, that have been "brainwashed", that have enabled you to publicly declare the views that you have done so today." I had a few problems with the rest of the kids in the class, wanting to pick fights with me, just to claim they could beat up some one in the military, and wanting to say they are actually just weaklings, etc. I owe it to the years of self discipline that I had not reacted with my fists, but instead with silence, and simply walking away from them.Something like that happen in one of my classes. Some student beeking off. I bite my lips some hard. Then my buddy stood up, from Europe, and beat the"poop" out of the other guy. He said he was thankful for the Canadian troops in WW2. Crazy Euros...I was in shock/rooting for him. Then told him afterwards to get a hair cut in his deep accent. ;D
Classic
Classic
