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7 Year old Killed.

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Myth
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A few days ago a 7 year old near my home town died when the 250cc polaris ATV he was driving rammed into a hydro pole.

I just wanted to get some opinions on this. Personally I think the parents should be held criminally responsible. (a bit of a debate about it in the papers here too)
Anyone whos bought or rode an ATV has seen stickers on it stating not for use with children under the age of 12. Above that warning this 7 year old wasn‘t driving a little 50 or 60 cc atv but a full sized 250cc. A machine ment for an adult. By the looks of it there was also no adult supervision. What do you guys think?
 
Wow. I personally think that you should need a special permit to drive an ATV, like for snowmobiles.
 
That really sucks, poor guy. I agree with Condor!

:cdn:
 
It seems like a pretty simple case of neglect.

At 7 years old, a child shouldn‘t even be allowed to ride on a 50cc ATV without very close adult supervision.

The fact that he could get it started and begin driving it indicates that he was shown how at some point, which is totally irresponsible. Unless you are certain that you will always take the neccessary measures to prevent the child from "sneaking" a try when you‘re not around (ie removing the keys, disconeccting the spark plugs etc.) then you really shouldn‘t give the child the knowledge and the ability to operate the machine on their own.

It‘s like if you show a kid where you keep your guns and how to fire them. You can tell them 1000 times that they can only touch them when you are there, but most kids would go play with them at the first opportunity no matter what you say.
Dr.Phil set up some kids and proved that at least with his group, almost every kid ended up touching the gun only minutes after being told not to.

ATV licensing/permits would probably help to minimise teenage fatalities if they are required to take actual courses in the safe operation of ATV‘s.
However, I don‘t think permits etc would do much good in cases where a child decides to just go and try it. If the kid in this case actually was alone, he probably knew full well that what he was doing was wrong. Kids that age lack the ability to forsee the REAL possible consequences of doing dangerous things, aside from getting a time out or a spanking. I‘m sure the thought that he might get in a serious accident never even occured to this kid, and that‘s why you shouldn‘t teach kids how to use dangerous vehicles/tools unless you are absoluetly certain that you have eliminated the possiblity that they could go ahead and use it alone or while they are showing off to their best friend or whatever.

If you fail in that, after giving the child the knowledge and/or *ability (*even if its just leaving the keys in the car while you run into the house for something you forgot) to use a dangerous item, then basically you have neglected to look out for their well being.
 
Definately the parents fault, I agree, he should‘ve been watched mroe closely as well as extra precautionary measures should‘ve been taken.
 
I read the article and apparently the dad knew he was going riding and let him.

And Ontairo has a law that you must be 12 or older unless on private property and under close adult supervision.
 
any ways guys as sad as it is to here that someone died of an accident.(doesnt matter if its a kid,teenager or adult) kids have been riding these machines as long as i can remember. if you are from the city you will be the first to condem the parents for being irresponsible. i think your wrong. i grew up around kids driving dirt bikes skidoos and boats at a young age. i feel their is no difference between this and letting your kid ride his bike to school unsupervised. people die every day. ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. the real shame in this is that the parents have lost the one thing they hold dearest in their life. and now people like you are saying to charge them with neglagence. wrong we should be sending letters of regret about their loss. not trying to throw them in jail. come on guys get your head out of your butts and think out side of the box.
i feel very strong on these matters because our society tries to blame its fears and lack of knowledge on the innocent.
 
the real shame in this is that the parents have lost the one thing they hold dearest in their life. and now people like you are saying to charge them with neglagence. wrong we should be sending letters of regret about their loss.
If they were that "dear" to them, then they shouldn‘t have allowed a child to be riding the ATV. I bet money that the manual has a minimum age level. I see kids on ATVs, snowmobiles, etc. - parents buy those things as babysitters, I think.

Arizona has the second highest rate in the US for child drownings. Why? All the friggin swimming pools here! "Oh, I was just on the phone for a minute" BS.. It is very frustrating watching the news and constantly hearing about these kids (1-5) drowning! My wife and I may be over protective, but hey - our child is alive. Nobody takes responsibility for anything these days. True - the parents have suffered a terrible loss - but who is speaking for the (dead) child???
 
if you are from the city you will be the first to condem the parents for being irresponsible. i think your wrong. i grew up around kids driving dirt bikes skidoos and boats at a young age. i feel their is no difference between this and letting your kid ride his bike to school unsupervised.
I grew up in areas I‘d bet were a lot more remote then where you did.
There was ATV‘s and trail bikes in most garages.
I never saw 7 year old children riding anything other than 50cc trail bikes, and only on their yards if they were outside alone.

A child that age riding on a 250cc quad alone is madness. If the people in your area think it‘s commonplace, then that doesn‘t make it acceptable. I just means you live in an area where parents are particularly irresponsible.
Thats why there is warnings posted all over ATV‘s and dirtbikes and boats, that children are not permitted to operate the machines on their own. Because there are so many parents who are are not responsible enough to set realistic limits for their child on their own.

The strength of a 7 year old child is not enough to handle the potential rate of acceleration on that kind of powerful ATV. If a kid pinned the throttle in first gear from zero, he would probably find himself flying off the back of the quad. Considering that the child would probably weigh about 60 pounds, it would accelerate even faster than you would imagine if youre used to riding one yourself.

As for riding your bike to school alone, well that‘s the weakest part of your argument. Kids that age can probably push their bike up to 40kph when they ride down a steep hill. Give them a 250cc ATV, and suddenly they can go over 100kph effortlessly, uphill, downhill, over jumps (which we know kids love to do) and pretty much wherever they please. They lack the perception to properly understand distances vs speed vs time required to stop.
They don‘t have the reflexes required for emergency driving (like how to avoid the dog that runs out in front of them, or how to make a decision to just apply the brakes and take the chance running the dog over when its too late to turn) they would likely just slam the handlebars as far to one side as they could, even at top speed.
This kid that died only serves to validate what I‘m saying. He hit a static object. A telephone pole. Not very hard to miss. He was obviously out of control, which in my opinion is whenever a 7 year old child is riding a machine with that kind of power.

Yes it‘s sad, and we should feel bad for his familiy, but if we never held people accountable for being negligent, then accidents like this would happen far more often. There has to be consequences for poor decision making.
 
Agreed, a 250cc machine is a full size machine. I‘ve had adult members of my family go out of control on things like those even at low speeds. Heck, I‘ve seen kids go out of control on 50cc machines. And this kid was going fast enough that his helmet came off in the crash. The point is, that this should never have happened. The father was negligent in first showing his son how to ride this thing and then letting him take it on a road.
 
if this is the case then i guess all parents who buy or let their 16 year olds buy high horsepower cars or let them use theirs should be held laible if their kid causes an accident. thats what you are saying, really i bet these people learnt a leason and we all should from this unfortunate incident.
 
if this is the case then i guess all parents who buy or let their 16 year olds buy high horsepower cars or let them use theirs should be held laible if their kid causes an accident
That‘s exactly what we‘re saying

You will find that one thing that makes military people different than civvies - a deep sense of personal responsibility and accountability.

In the civilian world, everything is always "somebody else‘s fault". Honourable people, IMO, often try and take more responsibility than is deserved, when the poop hits the fan....
 
Originally posted by CTD:
[qb] if this is the case then i guess all parents who buy or let their 16 year olds buy high horsepower cars or let them use theirs should be held laible if their kid causes an accident. thats what you are saying, really i bet these people learnt a leason and we all should from this unfortunate incident. [/qb]
That‘s not a great example, because a licensed driver is different from a 7 year old child. At least in British Columbia, last I heard, a 16 year old is allowed to move away from home, drop out of school, buy/drive cars, have sex and do most things associated with adulthood. ( I know because I was did all of that when I was 16 in BC)

If a kid saves his own money and buys a 300 horsepower car, insures it, and then goes and kills a car full of his friends and himself, then the responsibility has very little to do with his parents. In that case it‘s the induviduals fault, and also the government to some extent for issuing him a drivers license.
Even if the same kid borrows his parents car, and then goes and kills some people with it, morally they may be accountable, but not legally (provided they have him listed as a secondary driver). It‘s still his fault, he‘s passed the courses, he‘s been given a license by the government (not his parents) and he should have known better than to do whatever he did wrong. (this is all assuming a preventable at fault accident occured)

The same can‘t be said in the case of a 7 year old ATV rider. He doesn‘t have the capacity to look out for himself, that responsibility falls to his parents.
 
Originally posted by CTD:
[qb] if this is the case then i guess all parents who buy or let their 16 year olds buy high horsepower cars or let them use theirs should be held laible if their kid causes an accident. thats what you are saying, really i bet these people learnt a leason and we all should from this unfortunate incident. [/qb]
Further to what muskrat said, a 16 year old is hardly the same thing as a 7 year old. A 16 year old kid with a high horsepower car is legally allowed (assuming the kid is licensed) to drive it on the road. Its still irresponsible to give them something they can‘t properly handle. But saying that a 16 year old and a 7 year old are the same thing (which you effectively did) just proves you don‘t know what you‘re talking about.

And you‘re right, we should learn from this unfortunate accident. What we should learn is that its not okay to let 7 year old kids drive full-size ATV‘s by themselves.
 
Yeah, GrahamD said what I was thinking. Only he did it better, and quicker than I.
 
I agree with muskrat, condor, ranger and graham, this kid was definatly under no supervision, under the age limit, and drove the machine WITH the consent of his father(which is right away against the law). Because the boy was under the age restriction for the vehicle, and not an adult, his parents are most defnatly responsible for his fate. Just as a homeowner is liable for any injury or death that occurs on their property that could likely have been prevented, this could and should have been preventedAs for the car comment, I agree and disagree. If the child successfully gets his/her license, and still gets on the road and in an accident, he is legally responsible, because he has been certified to drive that vehicle. But Parents need to be held partially responsible because they bought the car for their kid in the first place, and they (should) know their kid, and their level of maturity and ability to safely operate a Motor Vehicle. I am a Teenager myself (19 in Aug.), and I know quite a few kids who do stupid things with their free time, and I am geinuinely afraid knowing that they do drive, so I really do hope that the Ontario govn‘t goes thru with plans to increase the age at which you can drive, because I am tired of kids (sometimes as many as 5 a year) at my school dying in car crashes because they(or their friends) are inexperienced.
 
Wow, all of us said the same thing, pretty much right at the same time. :eek: I really need to type faster or keep my answers short, otherwise you guys will always be taking the words out of my mouth. :blotto:
 
As I said though, where I grew up most kids bought their own cars.

Maybe its a generational thing, that kids only get what their parents pay for these days, but 12 years ago when I was 16, kids bought the kinds of cars they felt like buying, with or without their parents consent.
My first car was a Mustang with a 302 engine. Once I buried the needle at 220kph on a 10 mile straight stretch (called the Port Stretch) where everyone went to find out the top speed of their cars/ or nerves (whichever came first).
The town was so small that everyone‘s parents knew what was happening, only there‘s not a lot you can do to a 16 year old who‘s determined to do their own thing. You can‘t take away stuff that belongs to them.
You have to know that the last thing my mother wanted was for me to have that car. And after about 8 months I ended up going off the road at about 160kph, and that was the end of that. I don‘t see how I could hold my mother accountable for that accident even a tiny bit.

As a point of interest, our computer studies teacher completely totalled his Lotus (an inheritance from his estranged father) on the Port Stretch and nearly died, only the fact that the stretch runs directly though a bog saved him. So it wasn‘t only kids who had high performance cars and acted like idiots out there.

I agree though, bumping up the age required to become fully licensed is a good idea. Now that my little sister is only about 10 months away from being 16 I totally realise how young that is. I felt so mature at that age, but now I realise that I was still basically a child. It‘s scary to think of the times I was flying around in a car at double the speed limit and more.
 
I totally agree, My sister got her G2 a few months age, and it scares me driving with her, and now I know how many parents must feel putting their kids behind the wheel, that is probably why I have the outlook i do now, that and the nutoriously reckless kids in this area. If the Gov‘t does raise the age(to 18 I think) it will mean that ppl will be at least a little more mature when they get the license.
 
i guess you guys are right. all my buddies rode big reds not 4 wheelers and yes most of them used 50cc and 80cc bikes. they were supervised. parents in their campsites, kids riding up and down the logging roads, sometimes the parents would go ride with them, depends on how much they had to drink. typical backwoods family. i know of one guy who lets his 12 year old fly his airplane around his property by himself. they live in northern BC though.
i dont claim to know any facts other then the kid was 7 and his parents let him ride the quad, bad judgement maybe, should they suffer more then they have already i dont think so. the loss of a life is the worst punishment anyone can have, i feel that is enough, throwing these people in jail is not going to bring their kid back. figure they have to live with their descision for the rest of their lives.
 
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