6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[Altair]

Further thoughts on this new indictment:

First, putting two and two together, here's a portion of a post I wrote in this thread back in July. This was in the context of some back and forth between a few of us over how 'deliberate' versus 'hasty' this was.



Now, I'm not posting that as an 'I told you so', but rather look at the links. At the time, an Oath Keeper from Florida pled guilty to various lesser offences, and was reportedly cooperating with authorities. Now, having read through the indictment today, part of the crew charged were from a Florida cell. There is talk in the indictment of other people 'known to the Grand Jury', as well as considerable material from encrypted chats on the Signal app. Signal is pretty damned good for security and privacy; the weakest point is the user. I'm going to guess we are seeing the fruits of that cooperation by the guy who pled out.

Second: This indictment today has some heavy charges. Seditious conspiracy is 20 years; that's double the maximum for rebellion or insurrection (surprising- maybe an historical quirk there) 18 U.S. Code Chapter 115 - TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES It's noteworthy that these charges are only just starting to drop; they took their time to build the cases. I note that all thsoe charged today were from the Oath Keepers. They are only one of a number of organizations that were likely involved in this stuff. I infer from this that the oath keepers crew was one single contained investigation, though obviously information will be shared between investigative teams. I suspect we will see similar indictments unsealed against members of other groups, such as the Proud Boys.

This shows that investigators and prosecutors have successfully worked their way a fair distance up the 'chain of command' in at least one of the January 6th conspiracies, and that they're successfully leveraging a combination of cooperating witnesses, digital forensics, and comms that the bad guys thought were secure. It also shows that the feds are capable of OPSEC on this one. This same leader of the Oath Keepers has been named repeatedly in various articles asking "whya ren't the feds going after this guy?" with various speculations that he may be informant. Similar dynamics have played out with so-far unindicted Proud Boys, and others.

Third: there is likely some interplay between the January 6th commission and the DOJ, so as to not accidentally blow up criminal cases. The unsealing of indictments and evidence in criminal proceedings may open up more at the congressional committee.

Fourth: With arrests of prominent militia leadership, this will put investigators in a position to assess the extent, if any, to which political / party-connected figures played a role in this. In the course of arrests and searches they will likely seize phones, computers, etc. Communications will be accessed. They'll likely already have call logs (numbers dialed to and from, date, time, and call length) and will be in a position to press on any evidence they may have (if they do) of calls between people now arrested and charged, and others who may have political connections. It may well be that there isn't any of this- but if they're is, that's now starting to be within reach. Nothing stops them from working towards a cooperation and plea deal even with these indictments laid. 20 years is a long time to rot.

I bet some not very good people are sweating a bit tonight.

All those posts saying that nobody has been charged with sedition have aged very poorly indeed.

 

[brihard]

All those posts saying that nobody has been charged with sedition have aged very poorly indeed.

Few people have ever worked major criminal investigations or have a grasp for how long it can take and how quietly things can be kept- no shock there. While the posts didn’t age overly well, as Dunning-Krueger goes with regards to law enforcement, that’s pretty mild

 

[OceanBonfire]

The prosecutors took their time to build it meticulously:

U.S. built 'textbook' case of sedition charges for Capitol attack -legal experts

U.S. prosecutors appear to have proceeded carefully in bringing sedition charges against 11 people linked to a far-right militia who took part in the deadly 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol and are likely to obtain convictions, legal experts said.

www.reuters.com

'A bloody and desperate fight:' U.S. prosecutors release Oath Keepers' communications

Here are excerpts of communications that Stewart Rhodes, founder of the far-right Oath Keepers militia, had with his allies in the run-up to and after the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, according to prosecutors, who on Thursday charged him and 10 alleged members of the group with...

www.reuters.com

 

[KevinB]

as well as considerable material from encrypted chats on the Signal app. Signal is pretty damned good for security and privacy; the weakest point is the user.

FWIW generally any encrypting program will be broken by the NSA even before it is released OS to the public.
Anyone thinking they are hiding anything that way is in for a rude awakening.
I know several folk who use secure apps - but they don't kick themselves that their employer can't read the mail, they are just using it for individual PERSEC stuff - nothing Operational - and definitely not Criminal.

 

[brihard]

FWIW generally any encrypting program will be broken by the NSA even before it is released OS to the public.
Anyone thinking they are hiding anything that way is in for a rude awakening.
I know several folk who use secure apps - but they don't kick themselves that their employer can't read the mail, they are just using it for individual PERSEC stuff - nothing Operational - and definitely not Criminal.

Right, very possible- but if they can, that doesn’t mean it’ll get used for criminal prosecution because of the court disclosure requirements. The SIGINT community is not, I suspect, eager to have it out there what they can and cannot break. Besides, if a cooperating witness can give you the info and get you in, great.

 

[KevinB]

Right, very possible/ but if they can, that doesn’t mean it’ll get used for criminal prosecution because of the court disclosure requirements. The SIGINT community is not, I suspect, eager to have it out there what they can and cannot break. Besides, if a cooperating witness can give you the info and get you in, great.

Normally I would discount that option for domestic case - but there is a lot energy being directed at this - and it wouldn't shock me to find out if there has been work done in this manner. Also our National Security laws work a little differently regarding disclosure.
But I agree a witness is a much easier route.

 

[Haggis]

For lack of anything better on TV last night, I watched parts of Trump's "Save America" rally in Arizona. Many expected him to announce another run at the presidency, but it was just more of the same.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Gotta love this ....

As crews cleaned the US Capitol on January 7, 2021, the phone lines in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office began to ring.

Rioters were calling "asking whether there was a lost and found because they forgot their phone there, or they left their purse or what have you," Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., told Insider on Friday in a Q&A.

Police officers swiftly took down information from the callers, Raskin said.

"The officers quickly got on the phone and said, yeah, just give us your name, your address, your social, you know, and we'll tie up those loose ends," Raskin said ...

 

[OceanBonfire]

But the documents also show how quickly Trump’s most fervent and dangerous supporters mobilized to subvert the election results through force and violence, by any means necessary, even though there was no widespread election fraud and Trump’s Cabinet and local election officials said the vote had been free and fair.

For Oath Keepers and founder, Jan. 6 was weeks in the making

For more than a year, federal prosecutors have been investigating the Capitol riot, and at least 700 people have been charged, mostly with lower-level crimes.

apnews.com

 

[OceanBonfire]

Republicans in seven states tried to send in illegitimate Electoral College votes for Donald Trump during the 2020 election. Their efforts didn't work, and they could face legal ramifications as federal prosecutors investigate their actions:

Prosecutors in multiple states are investigating false Electoral College submissions

Legal experts say the illegitimate submissions should motivate Congress to update the Electoral Count Act and "firm up the guardrails" of democracy.

www.npr.org

 

[OceanBonfire]

It's slow but at least everything's moving carefully:

Judges approve special grand jury in Georgia election probe

Judges have approved a request for a special grand jury by the Georgia prosecutor who’s investigating whether former President Donald Trump and others broke the law by trying to pressure Georgia officials to throw out Joe Biden’s presidential election victory.

apnews.com

The Jan. 6 panel subpoenas 14 people in fake electors scheme tied to Trump

The 14 people are tied to an effort to put forth false electors as President Donald Trump sought to stay in office after losing the 2020 election.

www.npr.org

 

[KevinB]

I don’t think many Canadians understand what often has happened down here.

‘This Smacks of Something Gone Awry’: A True Tale of Absentee Vote Fraud

In North Carolina, a few hundred fraudulent ballots changed the outcome of a race. It had nothing to do with Donald Trump.

www.politico.com

North Carolina GOP Operative Faces New Felony Charges That Allege Ballot Fraud

Leslie McCrae Dowless is accused of leading a scheme to illegally collect, sign and mail in absentee ballots. An investigation into allegations of fraud overturned a 2018 congressional race.

www.npr.org

These are the same case, but both goood reads on how Vote Harvesting occurs, and how this case came to be a case.

When you look at the vote counts and how mail in votes are ‘clumps’ that defy statistical explanation, the reason why most claim foul is because it’s done on both sides.

The reasons why some Republican politicians wanted to assign the Electoral College votes, are they most likely aware of his Vote Harvesting works.

The other issue, is non of the election audits actually addressed this issue, probably because neither party actually wants to be factual and admit they know candidates (or people working for their candidates) conduct it.

The end result is the Democrats cheated more effectively in the last election than the Republicans. There need to be major reforms to voting laws down here, both to ensure that people can cast a vote, but also that the votes are legitimate and by legal voters. Neither side seems to admit that the other side has a valid point - and so it will continue to be a colossal disaster.

 

[quadrapiper]

The end result is the Democrats cheated more effectively in the last election than the Republicans. There need to be major reforms to voting laws down here, both to ensure that people can cast a vote, but also that the votes are legitimate and by legal voters. Neither side seems to admit that the other side has a valid point - and so it will continue to be a colossal disaster.

Something to completely remove the ability to gerrymander would help. Cyclical automated remapping with no consideration for anything but ensuring there's x voters in the blob, where x is national population divided by seats: bonus points if it can be refined to avoid mirroring existing municipal boundaries. An inalienable right to vote for citizens would be a good start (none of this non-voting felon nonsense), too, as would anything that takes decision-making about how to carry out federal elections out of local or state hands.

Since there's such a keenness for jurisdictions being able to manage their own affairs, the Republicans need to either shut up about municipal or state entities deciding to include non-citizens as eligible voters within their jurisdiction's internal polls, or never mention state's rights again.

 

[KevinB]

Something to completely remove the ability to gerrymander would help. Cyclical automated remapping with no consideration for anything but ensuring there's x voters in the blob, where x is national population divided by seats: bonus points if it can be refined to avoid mirroring existing municipal boundaries. An inalienable right to vote for citizens would be a good start (none of this non-voting felon nonsense), too, as would anything that takes decision-making about how to carry out federal elections out of local or state hands.

Since there's such a keenness for jurisdictions being able to manage their own affairs, the Republicans need to either shut up about municipal or state entities deciding to include non-citizens as eligible voters within their jurisdiction's internal polls, or never mention state's rights again.

Agreed to most.
Felon loss of voting is part of the punishment, and at least of part of incarceration should IMHO be enforced.
However upon release, I don’t see why not.

Municipal and State’s don’t have the Right to change the definition of an eligible voter however. It’s the Law of the Land, and that should not be up for local interpretation. As a naturalized US citizen, I paid taxes for years when on my green card, I didn’t get to vote, nor counted towards the eligible vote numbers.

I think some sort of Non Partisan board needs to oversee a lot of things in US politics, as right now both Parties are just so awash in corruption it’s sickening.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Municipal and State’s don’t have the Right to change the definition of an eligible voter however. It’s the Law of the Land, and that should not be up for local interpretation. As a naturalized US citizen, I paid taxes for years when on my green card, I didn’t get to vote, nor counted towards the eligible vote numbers.

Don't tell that to New York City

New York City Becomes Largest City In The Country To Grant Voting Rights To Noncitizens

New Mayor Eric Adams allowed the legislation to take effect after months of ambivalence on the issue.

www.forbes.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

In federal elections, or state/local?

 

[OceanBonfire]

The National Archives said it retrieved 15 boxes of White House records last month that were stored at former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago property. The records should have been transferred to officials from the White House at the end of the Trump administration, officials say:

15 boxes of White House records have been recovered at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort

Those records should have been transferred to officials from the White House at the end of the Trump administration, according to federal law.

www.npr.org

 

[OceanBonfire]

Looming large in the litigation is a Supreme Court case from 1982 holding that presidents are shielded, or immune, from lawsuits over their official acts.

Mehta ruled Trump was not immune from the lawsuits, determining that the then-president's fiery speech before the Capitol attack was not within the scope of his official presidential duties.

"To deny a President immunity from civil damages is no small step. The court well understands the gravity of its decision," Mehta ruled. "But the alleged facts of this case are without precedent, and the court believes that its decision is consistent with the purposes behind such immunity."

U.S. judge denies Trump's request to toss Jan 6 incitement lawsuits

Former U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday lost a bid to dismiss lawsuits accusing him of inciting the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

www.reuters.com

 

[OceanBonfire]

Archivist David Ferriero notified members of Congress Friday that some of the contents in 15 boxes of presidential records at the Florida resort were "marked as classified national security information." Ferriero said the National Archives had asked Trump's representatives to continue searching for more materials.

Garland confirms classified material found among records taken from Trump's Mar-a-Lago

But the attorney general would not confirm that a federal probe on the matter is underway. He said the Justice Department would "look at the facts and the law and take it from there."

www.npr.org

 

[OceanBonfire]

An Alabama man affiliated with the far-right Oath Keepers militia group pleaded guilty Wednesday to seditious conspiracy for his actions leading up and through the Jan. 6 riot, marking the first person involved in the violent attack on the U.S. Capitol to be convicted of the rarely used charge.

Oath Keeper is 1st to plead guilty to seditious conspiracy for Jan. 6, will cooperate with prosecutors

Joshua James, 34, of Arab, Alabama, pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy charges on Wednesday as part of deal with prosecutors contingent on his cooperation.

abcnews.go.com

Alabama man first convicted of seditious conspiracy in riot

An Alabama man affiliated with the far-right Oath Keepers militia group has pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy for his actions leading up to and through the Jan. 6 riot.

apnews.com