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6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

mariomike

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I don’t think it knocks down the real point I was making in any way.
It would have if President Eisenhower ( who was president at that time ) was "practically and morally responsible for provoking the events on the day."

"There's no question - none - that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events on the day. No question about it."
Mitch McConnell
Leader of the US Senate Republicans.

No Republican or Democrat ever said that about Ike ( Eisenhower ).
 

Jarnhamar

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Now that trump has been surprisingly found not guilty at his impeachment trial, has anything been done about the Capitol Hill police who showed less effectiveness than a team of airsofters? Or why the half a billion dollar a year police force was so unprepared?
 

brihard

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Now that trump has been surprisingly found not guilty at his impeachment trial, has anything been done about the Capitol Hill police who showed less effectiveness than a team of airsofters? Or why the half a billion dollar a year police force was so unprepared?
I suspect a ton is being done, but those sorts of investigations are slow and tedious- and there’s a simply ridiculous volume of stuff for all involved police forces to handle in the wake of that. I expect there will be some sort of full congressional inquiry.
 

Jarnhamar

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I hope so. The pictures and videos of the police at the mercy of the crowd is brutal. Everyone's focus down south seemed to be on the dumb impeachment trial.
And now that the impeachment met it's predictable end without a conviction Trump and his supporters can run in circles talking about a kangaroo courts and a witch hunts.

It's almost like the Democrat side didn't want Trump to go away quietly and wanted to rev him and his people up on the way out. Wonder why that would be.
 

Brad Sallows

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Is there proof the evidence was "doctored" as you say?

Depends on what you will accept as proof, and on what you will interpret as doctored. Find the short clip of Van der Veen's interview with CBS for a bit of discussion about the apparently lightly modified Twitter tweet. Decide for yourself whether a manufactured (edited) video rather than straight presentation of as-recorded videos is doctoring (or if you prefer, manipulated).

Impeachment is important enough to be played as a rigorously straight game, with sufficient time for investigative and trial phases and for appropriate evidence and testimony to be gathered and presented honestly. There is no expediency excuse.
 

PMedMoe

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Depends on what you will accept as proof, and on what you will interpret as doctored. Find the short clip of Van der Veen's interview with CBS for a bit of discussion about the apparently lightly modified Twitter tweet. Decide for yourself whether a manufactured (edited) video rather than straight presentation of as-recorded videos is doctoring (or if you prefer, manipulated).

Impeachment is important enough to be played as a rigorously straight game, with sufficient time for investigative and trial phases and for appropriate evidence and testimony to be gathered and presented honestly. There is no expediency excuse.
So, no actual smoking gun then. Gotcha.

Fact check: Trump’s 'first two' tweets urged peace
 

Brad Sallows

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If the tweet in question showed a "blue check" where one was not warranted, that shot is conclusively down range already.
 

PMedMoe

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If the tweet in question showed a "blue check" where one was not warranted, that shot is conclusively down range already.
Not being familiar with Twitter, I thought a blue check indicates that an account of public interest is authentic. So, Trump's tweets should have had a blue check. When would one not be warranted?

Here's a list of his tweets: Donald Trump - Twitter
 

Brad Sallows

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It wasn't one of Trump's tweets. Someone decided to dress up a tweet from an unverified account as a verified one and drop it in to illustrate whatever it was they thought it meant. The original author caught them out on it, and explained what it meant, which was not what the House managers assumed. I suppose a proper investigation might have avoided the embarrassment.
 

daftandbarmy

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Wow... I'm impressed that they held their fire. Not sure if I would have been so 'forgiving' given the obvious threat to life and limb:


“I Don’t Trust the People Above Me”: Riot Squad Cops Open Up About Disastrous Response to Capitol Insurrection

Interviews with 19 current and former officers show how failures of leadership and communication put hundreds of Capitol cops at risk and allowed rioters to get dangerously close to members of Congress.

The riot squad defending the embattled entrance to the west side of the U.S. Capitol was surrounded by violence. Rioters had clambered up the scaffolding by the stage erected for the inauguration of President Joseph Biden. They hurled everything they could get their hands on at the cops beneath: rebar, plywood, power tools, even cans of food they had frozen for extra damage.

In front of the cops, a mob was mounting a frontal assault. Its members hit officers with fists and baseball bats. They grabbed at weapons slung from the officers’ waists. They unleashed a barrage of M-80 firecrackers. Soaked in never-ending streams of bright orange bear spray, the officers choked on plumes of acrid smoke that singed their nostrils and obscured their vision.

One officer in the middle of the scrum, a combat veteran, thought the rioters were so vicious, so relentless, that they seemed fueled by methamphetamine. To his left, he watched a chunk of steel strike a fellow officer above the eye, setting off a geyser of blood. A pepper ball tore through the air over his shoulder and exploded against the jaw of a man in front of him. The round, filled with chemical irritant, ripped the rioter’s face open. His teeth were now visible through a hole in his cheek. Blood poured out, puddling on the pavement surrounding the building. But the man kept coming.
The combat veteran was hit with bear spray eight times. His experience overseas "was nothing like this,” he said. “Nothing at all.”

Over the last several weeks, ProPublica has interviewed 19 current and former U.S. Capitol Police officers about the assault on the Capitol. Following on the dramatic video of officers defending the building that House lawmakers showed during the first day of the impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump, the interviews provide the most detailed account to date of a most extraordinary battle.

The enemies on Jan. 6 were Americans: thousands of people from across the country who had descended on the Capitol, intent on stopping Congress from certifying an election they believed was stolen from Trump. They had been urged to attend by Trump himself, with extremist right-wing and militia leaders calling for violence.

Many of the officers were speaking to reporters for the first time about the day’s events, almost all anonymously for fear of retribution. That they spoke at all is an indication of the depth of their frustration over the botched response. ProPublica also obtained confidential intelligence bulletins and previously unreported planning documents.

Combined, the information makes clear how failures of leadership, communication and tactics put the lives of hundreds of officers at risk and allowed rioters to come dangerously close to realizing their threats against members of Congress.


https://www.propublica.org/article/...5ckBzFfRuNSi7MCO_0r6_B87VAT6to2-Yq6II#1050746
 

PMedMoe

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Those tweets urged peace, after the riots had breached into the Capitol. I personally (aka just the way I interpreted it) was that once the shenanigans started to get super out of control, that was his "Oh crap!" moment where he tried to throw some water on the fire.

0.02
You're right, after he tweeted video of the rally and after he called Mike Pence a coward. Then two tweets about being peaceful and respecting police/law & order and then yet another about how the election results were rigged (even though he used the word peace).

It wasn't one of Trump's tweets. Someone decided to dress up a tweet from an unverified account as a verified one and drop it in to illustrate whatever it was they thought it meant. The original author caught them out on it, and explained what it meant, which was not what the House managers assumed. I suppose a proper investigation might have avoided the embarrassment.
Okay, point it out to me. Which tweet wasn't Trump's?
 

CBH99

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Now that trump has been surprisingly found not guilty at his impeachment trial, has anything been done about the Capitol Hill police who showed less effectiveness than a team of airsofters? Or why the half a billion dollar a year police force was so unprepared?
That is going to be an ugly experience for anybody trying to investigate it from a factual/unbiased perspective.

“Powers at be” limiting the number of officers allowed to be working that day. Very little to no support from Washington, DC police. Not allowed to call in additional police resources. Not allowed to call in national guard assets beforehand. (Some national guard were present, mostly assisting with road closure blockades & such.)

They did everything they could to ensure those officers were not supported adequately, then dismissed the Chief. It’ll be some ugly truths “IF” an investigation can actually uncover the f**kery that happened behind the scenes.

0.02
 

kkwd

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Here is a timeline of events according to the Department Of Defense. The rest is at the link. You can draw your own conclusions from this official document.
Timeline

Thursday, December 31, 2020 (New Year’s Eve)•
Mayor Muriel Bowser and Dr. Christopher Rodriguez, D.C . Director of Homeland Security and Emergency Management Agency, deliver a written request for D.C. National Guard (DCNG) support to D.C . Metro Police Department (MPD) and Fire and Emergency Service.
Saturday, January 2, 2021 •
The Acting Secretary of Defense (A/SD) confers with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS) and the Secretary of the Army (SECARMY) on the Mayor’s written request.
Sunday, January 3, 2021 •
DoD confirms with U.S. Capitol Police (USCP) that there is no request for DoD support. •A/SD meets with select Cabinet Members to discuss DoD support to law enforcement agencies and potential requirements for DoD support. •A/SD and CJCS meet with the President. President concurs in activation of the DCNG to support law enforcement.
Monday, January 4, 2021 •
USCP confirms there is no requirement for DoD support in a phone call with SECARMY.
 

Brad Sallows

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The tweet was presented as evidence to support the charge against Trump (inciting insurrection). According to the author, the tweet was about a prayer vigil.

"Fake but accurate" again. The usual high standard.
 

Brad Sallows

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Welcome to the world of conspiracy theorizing, where everything is what you want it to be.
 

Fishbone Jones

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He could be a Saint and it wouldn't matter. The democrats cannot operate without their boogeyman. If they didn't have Trump to fill in the big blank spots in their policy, they'd be shown as doing nothing. He has become part of their platform, for better or worse. Now, because their own impeachment bullshit caused a huge gap in Biden's popularity show, they want a do over and to restart Biden's 100 days and not count the first 30 days. Any period of time where the president signs almost 40 executive orders, proclamations and presidential memos in the first week, is important and needs to be officially and historically noted.
 
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