Religion tangent, split from: Military pushes overhaul of medal system

[Edward Campbell]

There is a common point of origin for Christian ritual. It is somewhere closer to Cairo and Istanbul than to Rome or some English village. I'm not sure that the requisite connections between the point of origin and today's sundry sects have all been broken - despite the best efforts of those sects.

Western Protestants in the 16th and 17th centuries were, in many cases, very careful to preserve connections to Rome and, similarly, 4th and 5th century Rome was careful to preserve its connections to Constantinople which remained connected to Alexandria and Jerusalem.

Because so many of us, in the 21st century, care so little we forget that 500 and 1,500 years ago most people cared very much and so they took the business of connections to a "proven" (maybe just "believed") point of origin very seriously.

In other words, despite the intense efforts of the Catholics, Copts, Protestants (of heaven alone knows how many varieties) and the Orthodox, Christendom exists and much, much more unites you all than divides you and most of your rituals, despite the superficial, cosmetic differences are well and truly rooted in a few, common practices that date to the very beginning of your religion.


Edited by Roy Harding:  Moved it here for you, Edward

 

[aesop081]

No offense intended here, either.  I'm an "enlightened atheist" - as in enlightened enough not to disparage others' (especially my friends and neighbours) beliefs.

I agree. people beleive in what they want to beleive in and i respect their convictions. Me on the other hand, well, 1994-95 was the straw that broke the camel's back (not that i had much faith left by then).

 

[the 48th regulator]

No offense intended here, either.  I'm an "enlightened atheist" - as in enlightened enough not to disparage others' (especially my friends and neighbours) beliefs.

And Tess:  I've already got a beard - you've already got some hats - maybe together we're Amish?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08e9k-c91E8



dileas

tess

 

[Bianca]

That may be so, tess.  However, we were not allowed to receive it until after Confirmation.

Really? I thought it was after the First Communion? I doubt my ultra-religious Italian, Roman Catholic grandparents would allow me to take communion if I wasn't deemed "worthy," hahaha.

My opinion on religion is that everyone has the right to believe (or not believe) in whatever they choose. But- I don't believe that someone has the right to force their beliefs on someone else and I cannot stand it when people use their religion as an excuse to hate/discriminate.

Personally, I use my catholic upbringing as more of a moral compass- "do unto others," etc. And I'm not going to be offended by a non-catholic (regardless of who they are) doing something 'wrong' in church. I wish sometimes people would just back off and let things slide. Not be completely apathetic, but there has to be a happy medium.

 

[PMedMoe]

Really? I thought it was after the First Communion? I doubt my ultra-religious Italian, Roman Catholic grandparents would allow me to take communion if I wasn't deemed "worthy," hahaha.

Yes, it was.  tess corrected me in another post.  Told you I was lapsed! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08e9k-c91E8

I love that song!!  It's on my iPod.  :nod:

 

[the 48th regulator]

I love that song too!!

And this one too....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epq7luiv_2Q

 

[Journeyman]

No offense taken.  I don't have a problem with God...

Really? I'd think you would, given the things She says about you  >

 

[PMedMoe]

Really? I'd think you would, given the things She says about you  >

What She says about me are bedtime stories, compared to what She says about you. 

 

[GAP]

What She says about me are bedtime stories, compared to what She says about you. 

A picture is worth a thousand words.......

 

[vonGarvin]

As a slightly-tripped up Roman Catholic, a few clarifications re: communion.
First of all, it is not only Catholics who practice communion.  The difference is in the belief of what we are consuming.  For some churches, as I understand it, the act is a re-enactment of the last supper.  For Catholics, it is not only a re-enactment, but for us, thanks to a process called "trans substantiation", the bread becomes the body of Christ, and the wine becomes the blood of christ.  To participate in communion (eg: to receive the host [so named because the bread acts as a literal host for Christ]), one must meet certain criteria.  First of all, one must have done the catechism and been given first communion. Another one (that many forget) is that one must be in a state of "absolved sin" to do so.  I'm not sure how else to say this, but I guess if you have a mortal sin hanging over your head, and you have yet to confess your sin, then you cannot receive the host.  So, you can go up, fold arms in front of you, and receive a blessing from the priest.

Having said all this, anyone who asks for communion will receive it during mass.  So, the act is pretty well the same among many Christian denominations, but the beliefs behind the actual event may vary, which is why the uproar (if you want to call it that) when PM Harper received communion.  Also remember when former NYC mayor Rudi took communion from the Pope last summer?  He's a divorced man (the horror!).  Anyway, both events clearly took place on days in which real news was lacking.

 

[Old Sweat]

In many Protestant denominations, the bread and wine are not consumed when offered. Instead the members of the congregation take the bread and hold it in their hands until the distribution is completed. The minister then leads them in eating the bread. The same is then repeated for the wine. It may very well be that the PM took the host in line with Protestant ritual and then ate it when he saw others doing so.

 

[vonGarvin]

In many Protestant denominations, the bread and wine are not consumed when offered. Instead the members of the congregation take the bread and hold it in their hands until the distribution is completed. The minister then leads them in eating the bread. The same is then repeated for the wine. It may very well be that the PM took the host in line with Protestant ritual and then ate it when he saw others doing so.

Ah, that's a good point.  I've attended many services at my neighbourhood UCC church.  Though it wasn't wine (much to my chagrin!), it was exactly as you mentioned here.  Until I read this, I had forgotten about it.

 

[Kirkhill]

This is a bump

It was prompted by two articles that I read this morning. One was about the apostate muslims and what they had to say about what they were taught about Jews and the other was about faith in Canada.

We Were Taught to Hate Jews

‘It’s like asking me how often I drink water. Antisemitism was everywhere.’ Apostates, former Islamists, and an almost-terrorist on how they changed their minds.

www.thefp.com

The Shifting Landscape of Faith in Canada | Cardus

Religion holds an increasingly delicate place in Canadian society according to The Shifting Landscape of Faith in Canada. This report compiles data from nine representative surveys of the Canadian population, creating one of the most comprehensive looks at religion in Canada.

www.cardus.ca

The phrase that caught my eye in the muslim article was this:

Today, I’m an agnostic deist and totally reject organized religion

Previously I have described myself as belonging to a church of one. An agnostic deist is a pretty fair description of myself as well. Judging from the second article it would appear that I have a lot of company.

The Spectrum of Spirituality Index​

The Spectrum of Spirituality was developed in 2017 by Cardus and the Angus Reid Institute to highlight the nuances of personal faith and public faith within religious affiliations and to recognize that a range of commitments and practices exists both within and between religious groups. Although there was some other publicly available data focused on individual religious beliefs and practices, relatively little attention had been given to how religious individuals and institutions influence the public square and how they are understood by others. The index was created to help understand religion in Canada along a spectrum of commitment, rather than a binary religious-secular divide. Drawing from previous social-science research on key indicators of spirituality, the Spectrum contains seven spiritual indicators that are split between personal and public religious practices and beliefs:

• Belief in God or a higher power
• Belief in life after death
• How important it is for a parent to teach their children about religious beliefs
• How often, if at all, a person feels they experience God’s presence
• How often, if at all, a person prays to God or a higher power
• How often, if at all, a person reads the Bible, Qur’an, or other sacred text
• How often, if at all, a person attends religious services (other than weddings or funerals)

Higher scores in each indicator indicate a higher commitment to religion in everyday life,

Religiously Committed (n=268, 16 percent of the total population):
Privately Faithful (n=317, 19 percent of total population):
Spiritually Uncertain (n=802, 47 percent of total population):
Non-religious (n=321, 19 percent of total population):


Earlier today I came up with this breakdown of religion in Canada and the 35% with no affiliation stood out for me. The no affiliation label is my own. The reference label was irreligious but that didn't feel right to me. The article on faith suggests to me that I was closer to the mark with my no affiliation.

53% Christian
30% Christian - Catholic
23% Christian - Other
35% - No affiliation
5% Muslim
2% Hindu
2% Sikh
1% Buddhist
1% Jewish

No proof is offered at this time but my belief is that a large portion of the 35% with no affiliation are following a trend that starts with Catholicism, the universal church, progresses through the state churches (predominantly episcopalian as in the Churches of England and Ireland and the Lutheran Churches of Scandinavia but including the Church of Scotland), on through the confessional churches (Baptist, Methodist and Quaker) to the Congregationalists.

The progression is from one universal belief through large groups (nations) to smaller groups (confessions) to still smaller groups (congregations) and ultimately to the individual - many of whom eschew churches but still find themselves attached to a deity and a belief in an afterlife.

When looking at the 53% Christians and 35% non affiliated I wonder how many of those 35%, as individuals are "Cultural Christians". How many share the traits and values of the communities in which they were raised even as they reject the clubs, the congregations, the people and their rules and hierarchies.

Why do I think this is important?

Because if our history, our worldview, our way of life, is being challenged I am curious to see where the divides might be.

Are the 35% more likely to side with Hamas? On the other hand I know of some of the 53% that do support Hamas.