Ancient Apocalypse (Netflix)

[Jarnhamar]

Interesting (or entertaining) documentary on the theory of an ancient advanced civilization.

First and foremost this show seems to be really pissing off archeologists. The author himself is clearly biased against archeologists and routinely trash-talks them during the episodes. Still, they're making quite a fuss about it. They're so upset they penned a letter to Nexflix asking them to reclassify the show as fiction. One article suggests it's the most dangerous show on netflix. "Why has this been allowed"


As with a lot of conspiracy stuff, a lot of his content seems to make sense. Or at least he does a good job of selling it. In particular, he points out questions in the idea that human hunter-gathers fresh out of the ice age decided to all of a sudden build these giant megalithic sites like Gobekli Tepe and all of a sudden take-up agriculture. One of the stone pillars in Gobekli Tepe being carved with symbols aligning with astronomical signs/positions of the stars dated 1000 years prior to a cataclysmic event was neat too.

There are interesting examples of multiple out-of-contact civilizations all with stories of ancient apocalypse-type events where someone comes from the sea to teach them laws, ethics, and how to live well. The way things keep circling back to the apocalypse type event from around 12,000 years ago is interesting as well.

 

[RangerRay]

I read some of his books on the Ark of the Covenant and the Sphinx and Pyramids of Giza when I was younger. Definitely got me thinking about an alternative past. After reading critiques from people more in-the-know than I, I came away thinking that he’s leaving a lot stuff out that’s inconvenient to his theses. He also tends to make assumptions, then make the case for a fact based on the assumption that has not been proven true.

It’s interesting stuff, but but being lay person in archaeology, I could be easily duped by my own ignorance.

 

[Kirkhill]

Ever since Erik von Daeneken's Chariots of the Gods I have been taken with "alternatives". I learned to disregard their theories but enjoy the extraneous data that they dug up. The mainstream archaeologists eventually had to accommodate the outlying data that they would prefer wasn't there.

Like so many other fields - the professionals would prefer that their science was settled.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Pyramidiot literature is entertaining, but far-fetched. The simple explanation is that people were as smart then as they are now, they just had fewer technologies to leverage their intelligence. The fact some achievements seem unexplainable might just mean that contemporary people biased with modern knowledge simply aren't clever enough to figure out how things were done.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Interesting (or entertaining) documentary on the theory of an ancient advanced civilization.

First and foremost this show seems to be really pissing off archeologists. The author himself is clearly biased against archeologists and routinely trash-talks them during the episodes. Still, they're making quite a fuss about it. They're so upset they penned a letter to Nexflix asking them to reclassify the show as fiction. One article suggests it's the most dangerous show on netflix. "Why has this been allowed"


As with a lot of conspiracy stuff, a lot of his content seems to make sense. Or at least he does a good job of selling it. In particular, he points out questions in the idea that human hunter-gathers fresh out of the ice age decided to all of a sudden build these giant megalithic sites like Gobekli Tepe and all of a sudden take-up agriculture. One of the stone pillars in Gobekli Tepe being carved with symbols aligning with astronomical signs/positions of the stars dated 1000 years prior to a cataclysmic event was neat too.

There are interesting examples of multiple out-of-contact civilizations all with stories of ancient apocalypse-type events where someone comes from the sea to teach them laws, ethics, and how to live well. The way things keep circling back to the apocalypse type event from around 12,000 years ago is interesting as well.

He's been on The JRE a couple times.

I'm on episode 3 of Ancient Apocalypse.

Its interesting/fun stuff.

 

[QV]

"There are also unknown unknowns."

 

[FSTO]

How the hell did the pyramids in Giza get built and why did folks in Central America and SE Asia build similar structures. And how/why do ALL ancient societies have similar astrological knowledge and cataclysmic flooding events in their oral histories?

 

[Halifax Tar]

How the hell did the pyramids in Giza get built and why did folks in Central America and SE Asia build similar structures. And how/why do ALL ancient societies have similar astrological knowledge and a great cataclysmic flooding events in their oral histories?

 

[FSTO]

Ha ha. But maybe there was more worldwide trade and contact prior to or even during the Ice Age? I think I read something that there was less than 200,000 humans left after a massive worldwide event.

It all makes you wonder.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Ha ha. But maybe there was more worldwide trade and contact prior to or even during the Ice Age? I think I read something that there was less than 200,000 humans left after a massive worldwide event.

It all makes you wonder.

No idea my man. And until we develop a time machine we will probably never know for sure.

 

[Remius]

How the hell did the pyramids in Giza get built and why did folks in Central America and SE Asia build similar structures. And how/why do ALL ancient societies have similar astrological knowledge and cataclysmic flooding events in their oral histories?

A variety of reasons can explain those things.

Pyramids are in essence very simple structures. Stack rocks, build high.

Cataclysmic floods can be boiled down to rising oceans and melting glaciers world wide. Also tsunamis and normal flooding in some areas. People like to live near oceans and water. So it’s inevitable that at some point or various points in human history that major flooding would be ingrained in their memories.

The series is interesting and I am half way through. But like anything I google and search out the areas he’s investigating. Unfortunately a lot of the studies he cites are not the most academically rigid and as someone mentioned a lot of details are conveniently left out.

Some very fascinating places.

 

[FSTO]

Pyramids are in essence very simple structures. Stack rocks, build high.

Agree, but, where were the stones sourced? How were they cut? How were they moved to the work site? How did they keep the workers fed, housed, and kept under control for the years they took to build the structures.

This has never been completely explained without a lot of assumptions being made.

 

[Remius]

Agree, but, where were the stones sourced? How were they cut? How were they moved to the work site? How did they keep the workers fed, housed, and kept under control for the years they took to build the structures.

This has never been completely explained without a lot of assumptions being made.

Sure. Plenty of theories, some debunked and others confirmed and some still questioned, abound.

Rock cutting is an old science. Use of tools, water and wood. Things would get refined and technical know how would improve over time.

Like anything else, ancient civilisations had the logistics and wealth for all sorts of public works projects. The amount of manpower would be impressive but not impossible by any means.

 

[Kirkhill]

Ha ha. But maybe there was more worldwide trade and contact prior to or even during the Ice Age? I think I read something that there was less than 200,000 humans left after a massive worldwide event.

It all makes you wonder.

I'll go with more worldwide trade for a lot longer by people that were not significantly less intelligent or able than ourselves - going back at least to the era of Homo erectus.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Interesting (or entertaining) documentary on the theory of an ancient advanced civilization.

First and foremost this show seems to be really pissing off archeologists. The author himself is clearly biased against archeologists and routinely trash-talks them during the episodes. Still, they're making quite a fuss about it. They're so upset they penned a letter to Nexflix asking them to reclassify the show as fiction. One article suggests it's the most dangerous show on netflix. "Why has this been allowed"


As with a lot of conspiracy stuff, a lot of his content seems to make sense. Or at least he does a good job of selling it. In particular, he points out questions in the idea that human hunter-gathers fresh out of the ice age decided to all of a sudden build these giant megalithic sites like Gobekli Tepe and all of a sudden take-up agriculture. One of the stone pillars in Gobekli Tepe being carved with symbols aligning with astronomical signs/positions of the stars dated 1000 years prior to a cataclysmic event was neat too.

There are interesting examples of multiple out-of-contact civilizations all with stories of ancient apocalypse-type events where someone comes from the sea to teach them laws, ethics, and how to live well. The way things keep circling back to the apocalypse type event from around 12,000 years ago is interesting as well.

Read the book, "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond.

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies: Diamond, Jared: 9780393354324: Agriculture: Amazon Canada

Up to 90% off Textbooks at Amazon Canada. Plus, free two-day shipping for six months when you sign up for Amazon Prime for Students.

www.amazon.ca

Diamond is an Anthropologist and a lot of these alternate theories can be explained by things Diamond writes in his books.

According to Diamond, all the really important military and scientific developments Europeans discovered came about as a result of the need to continuously compete for scarce resources. Essentially, the perpetual state of war and conflict that existed in Europe for thousands of years allowed them to leapfrog the rest of the World militarily.

These conditions did not exist elsewhere so while places like Central America/South America where the Aztecs, Mayans and Incans had highly developed societies that understood things like mathematics, reading and writing, etc, they never developed the "guns, germs and steel" that the Europeans did.

Socially and economically, they were basically on par with European Societies but from a Military/Scientific standpoint, they were basically around a couple of thousand years behind.

The Aztec were still using stone weapons and wooden armour which is why even though they massively outnumbered Spanish Conquistadors and had large and well organized Armies, they had no way to defend themselves against soldiers equipped with steel armour, guns and steel swords. They also didn't have horses or any siege weaponry like bombards or cannons.

The Spanish may as well have been Alien Invaders to them. Diamond discusses some of the battles fought by the Spanish against the Central/South American civilizations and it is believed the Aztec and Mayan actually thought the Spanish were some sort of "god" or "mystical beings".

 

[Brad Sallows]

How the hell did the pyramids in Giza get built and why did folks in Central America and SE Asia build similar structures. And how/why do ALL ancient societies have similar astrological knowledge and cataclysmic flooding events in their oral histories?

A pile of rocks is an obvious structure when all you have is stone and people. If you look at the pyramid structures in one location, you should be able to see the evolution from cruder (sometimes, failed) structures to more refined and stabler ones over time.

Cataclysm stories might not have been meant literally - see Hamlet's Mill for one (fairly well-known among people interested in those speculations) take. (Summary: the myths encode knowledge about the precession of the equinoxes.) People had fewer things to observe in olden times, so more time to observe and wonder about them. Who today can find more than the Big Dipper?

[Add: one of the better candidates for generating shared flood myths is a possible flooding of what is now the Persian Gulf - the flooding could have happened within the ancient historic time frame; it's a known location of early civilization and would have prompted some kind of diaspora.]

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Read the book, "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond.

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies: Diamond, Jared: 9780393354324: Agriculture: Amazon Canada

Up to 90% off Textbooks at Amazon Canada. Plus, free two-day shipping for six months when you sign up for Amazon Prime for Students.

www.amazon.ca

Diamond is an Anthropologist and a lot of these alternate theories can be explained by things Diamond writes in his books.

According to Diamond, all the really important military and scientific developments Europeans discovered came about as a result of the need to continuously compete for scarce resources. Essentially, the perpetual state of war and conflict that existed in Europe for thousands of years allowed them to leapfrog the rest of the World militarily.

These conditions did not exist elsewhere so while places like Central America/South America where the Aztecs, Mayans and Incans had highly developed societies that understood things like mathematics, reading and writing, etc, they never developed the "guns, germs and steel" that the Europeans did.

Socially and economically, they were basically on par with European Societies but from a Military/Scientific standpoint, they were basically around a couple of thousand years behind.

The Aztec were still using stone weapons and wooden armour which is why even though they massively outnumbered Spanish Conquistadors and had large and well organized Armies, they had no way to defend themselves against soldiers equipped with steel armour, guns and steel swords. They also didn't have horses or any siege weaponry like bombards or cannons.

The Spanish may as well have been Alien Invaders to them. Diamond discusses some of the battles fought by the Spanish against the Central/South American civilizations and it is believed the Aztec and Mayan actually thought the Spanish were some sort of "god" or "mystical beings".

Don't forget the "Germs" part of "Guns, Germs and Steel." Those nasty little microbs killed far more indigenous people then the other two put together. And they didn't discriminate (See the multitude of plagues that devastated the ancient world).

 

[Jarnhamar]

A pile of rocks is an obvious structure when all you have is stone and people. If you look at the pyramid structures in one location, you should be able to see the evolution from cruder (sometimes, failed) structures to more refined and stabler ones over time.

I believe that's one of the argument points. There is no evidence of evolution from cruder structures. Hunter-gathers just came together and decided to start building these megalithic structures with mathematical, astronomical, and structural precision.

People had fewer things to observe in olden times, so more time to observe and wonder about them. Who today can find more than the Big Dipper?

This is the picture of the stone pillar I mentioned. The pictures of the creatures apparently correspond with constellations and if you align them and use the half-circle images to reference the positions of the sun it points to a date 1000 years prior to when Gobekli Tepe was constructed. A date that the author alleges is repeated across all these ancient civilizations. 12,800 years ago.





Gobekli Tepe was also made before humans settled down and began farming and agriculture.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

The Aztec were still using stone weapons and wooden armour which is why even though they massively outnumbered Spanish Conquistadors and had large and well organized Armies, they had no way to defend themselves against soldiers equipped with steel armour, guns and steel swords. They also didn't have horses or any siege weaponry like bombards or cannons

Actually, it was a lot closer then most people think. There was one battle where Cortez and his gang got there asses kicked by the Aztec (also called "Mexica") and sent running. If the Aztecs had followed up they could have wiped Cortez and his expedition out, but they didn't and that allowed the Spanish to re-group and rest.

The Spanish may as well have been Alien Invaders to them. Diamond discusses some of the battles fought by the Spanish against the Central/South American civilizations and it is believed the Aztec and Mayan actually thought the Spanish were some sort of "god" or "mystical beings".

The Spanish were most diffently a shock to the local inhabitants of Mexico. Spanish weapons gave to them a huge advantage, especially horses. Another weapon that absolutely terrified the locals were the Spanish use of "war dogs."

As for the Aztec belief that the Spanish were "gods" has been questioned. When Cortez first landed in Mexico, the locals after initial contact didn't hestitate to attack the Spanish. Also the some inhabitants of Mexico had been exposed to Spaniards prior to the arrival of Cortez. Years previously some Spanish sailors were shipwrecked off of Mexico and the survivors were taken in by the local inhabitants. And in one case of one individual who went "native," married a local women and raised a couple children with her (first mixed-blood children in Western Hemisphere). When offered the chance to return to Spain he refused.

If anyone is interested in the conquest of Mexico by the Spanish I highly recommend Daniele Bolellis History On Fire podcasts. Back in 2017 (see Archives), he produced four episodes (Conquest of Mexico) that go into very good detail of the conquest and come out at about total of nine and half hours. Just one caveat, not for children! What the Spanish and the Aztecs did to each other were pretty brutal and the podcasts are not for the faint hearted.

 

[Remius]

I believe that's one of the argument points. There is no evidence of evolution from cruder structures. Hunter-gathers just came together and decided to start building these megalithic structures with mathematical, astronomical, and structural precisio

Not sure where that comes from.

There is plenty of evidence of cruder structures in all pyramid building civilisations.

In the americas in a lot of cases they just built over the smaller structures and kept getting bigger.

In Egypt, plenty of proto pyramids.

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramids

The Egyptian Pyramids are described as pyramid-shaped monuments, constructed mostly as funerary tombs and ceremonial complexes for the departed pharaohs during the Old Kingdom (2575 BC to 2150 BC) and Middle Kingdom (2050-1550 BC) periods. - HeritageDaily - Archaeology News

www.heritagedaily.com