Author Topic: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]  (Read 107830 times)

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Offline combat_medic

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2004, 14:00:00 »
Infanteer: You‘re right on that one. There is no longer an official "Basic Unarmed Combat" course, but the instructor course is still around. The Basic qualification still exists, but it‘s no longer a formal course. Our Ops WO has the instructor course, and is running an informal Basic qualification. The idea is that once we‘ve completed and can be tested on all the moves and techniques, we‘ll get a UER entry saying that we have the qualification, if not the formal course. Then, it will allow us to take the instuctor‘s course, if the unthinkable happens and they offer the course to a reservist.

142Highlander: Yes, the general martial art is refered to as Defendo, but you‘re insane if you think there are only 2 people in the world qualified to instruct it. I know personally of a half dozen defendo instructors, and of at least one club in the Vancouver area alone where it‘s taught.
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Yllw_Ninja

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2004, 14:00:00 »
just remember these two things

Its not who wins...its who walks away

and

If its worth fighting for...its worth fighting dirty for

Offline MJP

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2004, 17:45:00 »
There is a basic course that precedes the unarmed combat instructor.  It is new and was suppose to be taught on Reg Inf BIQs but they found it took to much time.  It is now up to units to run it and qualify personnel.  Right now as it stands there are very few qualified instructors across the board in the CF(although lots have the old unarmed combat instructor course).

As for what it consists of I have no real clue as I‘ve never read the CTP.  However one of the qualified personnel is in my Pl so I will ask him and post the basics here.
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pte anthony

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2004, 17:45:00 »
there is no such thing as fighting dirty or fair if you square off with an opponent or one squares off with you, you fight to win as does he and what has to be done to emerge victorious is done. Wether it be a bar fight or trench fight you fight to win and do what is necessary with the utmost aggression and hostility commit yourself to the fight.   :soldier:

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2004, 22:21:00 »
Quote
Wether it be a bar fight or trench fight you fight to win and do what is necessary with the utmost aggression and hostility commit yourself to the fight.
Try explaining that in court....
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Yes Man

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2004, 23:03:00 »
I may be a bit in the dark on this one(I‘m not in the army yet), but...Is hand to hand combat what you use when your gun disappears, your bayonet breaks, you forget to bring you trusty knife, your pinned in and there is no one around you except your enemy who‘s gun also disappears, who‘s bayonet also breaks,  who‘s trusty knife has gone missing, and who decides to attack you?

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2004, 23:32:00 »
Yes Man, I was trying as hard as I could to ignore this awful thread but I have to say you summed it up better than I ever could. Thank you,   CHEERS
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Offline PikaChe

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2004, 23:33:00 »
IMO one of the point of h2h combat training is not just to teach a fight skill, but also to build up ability to focus aggression during combat.
Kinda like bayonet drill, where the command is ‘kill‘, which really serves no purpose, other than training troops to be aggressive when the time to beat the crap out of the opposition comes.

Hmmm... I think I may have just stepped across the PC zone. Oops.  :D

Offline Da_man

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2004, 19:49:00 »
I have an army hand to hand combat guide in pdf format...  if anyone can find a server i will upload it.   its 613 kb.
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Offline *CDN*Blackhawk

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2004, 21:45:00 »
Bruce tell me, whats awful about this thread, and if its so awful DONT post in it!!!
Pro Patria

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2004, 22:06:00 »
CDN Blackhawk, when talking to a member of the community with previous military experience, I recommend you watch your tone.


So far you have 50 posts and all you‘ve done is make alot of noise, despite my repeated requests that you put the radio on recieve for a bit.  I suggest you lay off the send button lest you find your self removed from the net.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline *CDN*Blackhawk

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2004, 22:43:00 »
Infanteer, please tell me how i have made alot of noise by asking a legitmant question about a hand to  hand course.

2ndly I dont recall any requests by you.
Is this not a public forum, or is their certain rules i have missed about posting about certain topics, I dont think i have crossed any lines here have i, I simply said, If you think its an awful thread dont post in it. I dont see whats wrong with that.

So i dont see where you are comming from here by saying all have made was alot of Noise, I think i have contributed to a good number of threads thus far in a positive way.

Not here looking for an argument, so send me a PM please and tell me what you mean!
Pro Patria

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2004, 23:06:00 »
Quote
2ndly I dont recall any requests by you.
Your right, I confused you with our last IED on this board.  So, I‘ll give you the same advice as I gave the last guy:
You can‘t receive a message on the radio if your constantly hitting the transmit button....

       
Quote
Is this not a public forum, or is their certain rules i have missed about posting about certain topics, I dont think i have crossed any lines here have i, I simply said, If you think its an awful thread dont post in it. I dont see whats wrong with that.

So i dont see where you are comming from here by saying all have made was alot of Noise, I think i have contributed to a good number of threads thus far in a positive way.
This forum has developed a bit of a community of military professionals that like to come here to swap shop with each other.  For some reason, every couple of weeks someone new signs up here and proceeds to hammer every available forum with either dumb questions that have been answered a million times or inane posts that in no way contribute to the conversation, forcing the regulars to sift through it all once again.  It is like some strange drunk showing up and crashing your family dinner.

Sure, the board is open to the public, but notice it is called "CDNarmy.ca" and not "LeftBasicTrainingACoupleYearsAgoAndNowGoingBack.ca".  We encourage civilians and potential recruits to come here.  However, we also like it when they lurk for a bit, put the weapons on safe, and  get a lay of the land before charging into every forum of the board.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2004, 03:56:00 »
Getting back to the subject at hand.....

I am currently taking Jiu Jitsu and let me tell all you types out there that think Tae Kwon do is the be all end all martial art.

After 4 months of taking classes 3 times a week lasting 2 hours on average I had a chance of taking on a guy who was a supposed black belt outside of a bar....

I was on him so fast and inside his space he didn‘t have a chance. After slaming him to the ground and snapping a joint he gave up in a hurry...especially when I went for the strangle, eyes rolling in his sockets.

Fighting usually gets to the ground REAL fast. All the swinging limbs in Tae Kwon Do do is give up a lever to break, thustly taking it to the ground where the real damage happens.

It can also be done in FFO, albeit to a greater restraint on your range of motion. See a limb, break it. Find the eyes, gouge them. Throats open, hit it. Got a free hand, claw, hit, gouge, pressure points etc...

I took Shitu Ryu for a number of years when I was younger...not really good in a bar fight. When the fight went to the ground, it took much longer for me to actually get the job done and sort him out. Now it‘s a different story...

As for the latest guy, after his arm was flopping...I called an ambulance and the cops, expecting jail for sure. Because I did the right thing and only defended myself with restraint did I avoid time behind bars so the cops let me go.

Saw the guy a week later with his arm in a sling, he appologised for being drunk and stupid...while his wife smacked him upside the head. I later found out he is a VIOLENT alcoholic, and has carried a knife most times when he goes out to the bars...so I‘m kinda glad I made it go as far as I did, or I could‘ve been in a world of hurt.  ;)

Regards
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.--Ben Franklin

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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2004, 04:37:00 »
Quote
It can also be done in FFO, albeit to a greater restraint on your range of motion. See a limb, break it. Find the eyes, gouge them. Throats open, hit it. Got a free hand, claw, hit, gouge, pressure points etc...
Hooah, thats the stuff I like to hear....
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2004, 07:46:00 »
I knew you liked it rough but jeeesh!  :D

Regards
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.--Ben Franklin

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
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Offline PikaChe

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2004, 08:07:00 »
Too many TKD schools do only the kicking stuff and ignore basic fundamentals of fighting.

Franko, the guy was drunk. Surely you can‘t count this fight as a fair test of martial arts.  ;)   :D

Offline Teltech

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2004, 10:42:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by Franko:
[qb]
I took Shitu Ryu for a number of years when I was younger...not really good in a bar fight. When the fight went to the ground, it took much longer for me to actually get the job done and sort him out. Now it‘s a different story...
[/qb]
Ah yes, Shito-Ryu (or my case, Itosu-Kai) - it‘s a fine sport style, but for a down and dirty bar fight, there is some room for improvement. The only thing I can say about TKD is it looks neat.. but so does aikedo. What I see is when your *** is on the line, the only rule is WIN.
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Offline Hulk

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2004, 11:21:00 »
At our unit, every few weeks, a qualified instructor (dont know if that‘s civi qualified or military) teaches us three or four moves of hand-to-hand (once again, not sure what type). He says that by the end of the year, we will all have our basic level one qualification in hand-to-hand. Just wondering... is that a qualification that would show up as a military qualification?

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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2004, 11:51:00 »
I doubt it Hulk, maybe you should ask who he is, what is quals are, and what exactly is he teaching you.  Franko now that‘s what I am talking about.  Ninjutsu, (what I studied) is fairly similar to Jujitsu and Judo, except there are no comps, but it all about fighting to win (within the law of course  ;)  ).

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2004, 12:00:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by RoyalHighlandFusilier:
[qb] Franko, the guy was drunk. Surely you can‘t count this fight as a fair test of martial arts.   ;)     :D  [/qb]
True, but the man moved pretty fast...enough for me to really be worried. Clocked me a couple of times before I got in nice and close. It sobered me up pretty good as soon as I got the first hit on the ol‘ chin...the second one in the ribs.

We were both drunk...him a bit more than me.

So I can agree it wasn‘t a fully sober fight...but you know when most fights start it isn‘t straight on and sober as a judge type people. It‘s usually someone being a jerk and wants to be the "big man".

He started the fight. I finished it. I was always have been told the fight isn‘t done until the agressor is either unconcious, under control(arm bars or breaks), or worst case......  :eek:

Regards
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.--Ben Franklin

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
    -Norman Schwartzkopf

Geoff

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2004, 12:44:00 »
Hi guys.  First post, been lurking about a year but this is a topic I know something about as I coach martial artists of all levels.  Seems like a good first post topic for me.

First off most martial arts are not trained with any significant level of contact.  Imagine training against an enemy who is always cooperating with you!  For a realistic assessment of what works you need to train / compete against a resisting opponent.  Judo, boxing, wrestling, bjj and a few others are perfect for this.  Some, like WTF TKD do train full contact but have so little to do with an actual fight that the attributes you‘re learning may even have a negative affect on you‘re fighting ability.  The most effective way to test you‘re hand to hand skills is to compete in a combative sport.  Right now mixed martial arts is clearly the king of the pack in that regard (think UFC/Pride or for Cdn. events UCC, AFC, WEF) and this is where you will find the best fighters in the world (hand to hand).  The mysterious kung fu / ninjitsu master would have a tough time lasting a full minute with a competent mma fighter.

Now, that said this type of unarmed combat isn‘t a terribly good thing for military personnel to train.  As previously mentioned if you‘re that close you probably haven‘t done you‘re job.    Training a skill that at best is secondary to the thousands of other things needed to be an effective soldier does not seem a wise decision.  Also the injury rate for a serious combat sports competitor is so high IMO military personnel would be doing themselves and the men around them a disservice as they would likely be ineffective for significant periods due to injury.  

Franko, if I remember correctly you're in Victoria.  Are you training at Peterec's or with Adam Z?  Either way both are great places from what I hear.

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2004, 13:19:00 »
You made some good point Geoff, but you have to take into account that the kinda of fighting you are talking about is as close to streetfight you can get in an artificial environmnet. There are differences. 1 from what I seen recently in the UFC competitions is no one wears gi‘s any more as that make you vulnerable to chokes.  Real world unless you are on beach or something chances are you are going to be wearing a shirt. 2 They still have a have ref, real world does not. 3 they still have "rules", no biting, eye gouching. real world does not. 3 they are in a ring with a padded floor, real world does not.  And it is Ninjutsu/Ninpo and the "masters" are not mysterious.

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2004, 13:29:00 »
Geoff...I‘m based out of Petawawa, as my Regiment is based out of there.

Regards
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.--Ben Franklin

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
    -Norman Schwartzkopf

Offline PikaChe

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Re: Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2004, 13:56:00 »
Heh. Thumb in the eye, knee to the balls, kick to the side of the knee. It‘s all good.   :D

Since every little fight/sparring situation I just know guys want to try to rape the little Asian boy and want to shoot in and take me to the ground, I just love giving a knee to the face.  ;)