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Offline Gunner

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Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« on: August 10, 2005, 22:30:31 »
http://www.charlesadler.com/index.php?p=chucksfavorites&action=view_story&id=1574

Matthias Dapfner, Chief Executive of the huge German publisher Axel Springer AG, has written a blistering attack in DIE WELT, Germany's largest daily newspaper, against the timid reaction of Europe in the face of the radical Islamic threat.

EUROPE - THY NAME IS COWARDICE

(Commentary by Mathias Dapfner CEO, Axel Springer, AG)

A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe - your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.

Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.

Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.

Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush...even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in

the corrupt U.N. Oil-for-Food program.

And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement. How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany.

I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolf Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time".

What else has to happen before the European public and its Political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and

intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.

It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.

Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush.

His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His

place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.

On the contrary - we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes. Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy - because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake - literally everything.

While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek...or our dental coverage...or our 4 weeks of

paid vacation...or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "...reach out to terrorists...to understand and forgive".

These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house.

EUROPE, THY NAME IS COWARDICE.

Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline NewCenturion

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2005, 10:23:31 »
Excellent article, the writer has the foresight to view current events as they will appear in history. We are in a crusade that will take decades to win. Bush and Blair will be remembered as the stalwarts of Western Civilization when all others cowered
"There never was a time when, in my opinion, some way could not be found to
prevent the drawing of the sword."
- General Ulysses S. Grant

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2005, 13:15:12 »
The German wars of Unification started in 1864 and ended with the fall of the Berlin wall in 1989.  The wars of socialism commenced with the French revolution and continued also to about 1989, or perhaps that only represents a breather.  Wars of religion and unification in France and Britain lasted centuries with flare-ups even today among the disaffected.  Anglo-French 100 years war.  Spanish-Dutch Wars.  30 years wars.  Islam and Byzantium for centuries.


This is what we are facing.  Long periods of struggle, interspersed with the occasional flash over into open conflict when the pressure builds, interrupted by periods of peace, truce or armistice when the contestants get tired out.  Repeat as required.
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Pfc_Norup

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2005, 14:40:26 »
Quote
We are in a crusade that will take decades to win. Bush and Blair will be remembered as the stalwarts of Western Civilization when all others cowered
May I remind you that Spain, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Netherlands, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Norway, Lithuania and other European countries participated in Operation Iraqi Freedom and that Germany is one of the biggest provider of troops in Afghanistan... And I'm sure that a lot of Africans are happy about the French troops keeping peace...

And do you really know what a Crusade is...?  I do support military action against Muslim countries that don't play by International law.. But that doesn't mean I'm on a crusade!!!

Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2005, 14:45:10 »
May I remind you that Spain, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Netherlands, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Norway, Lithuania and other European countries participated in Operation Iraqi Freedom and that Germany is one of the biggest provider of troops in Afghanistan... And I'm sure that a lot of Africans are happy about the French troops keeping peace...

And do you really know what a Crusade is...?   I do support military action against Muslim countries that don't play by International law.. But that doesn't mean I'm on a crusade!!!


Pfc_Norup:

The original article was written by a German, and published in a German publication.

I can see why it hit a nerve for you, though.
I love mankind.  It's people I can't stand.

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2005, 15:03:17 »
Quote
May I remind you that Spain, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Netherlands, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Norway, Lithuania and other European countries participated in Operation Iraqi Freedom and that Germany is one of the biggest provider of troops in Afghanistan... And I'm sure that a lot of Africans are happy about the French troops keeping peace...

Pfc_Norup - you make a good point about blanket statements.  Having said that, I must continue to support then general premise of the article, inthat key European countries are not pulling their weight.  The number of troops in Afghanistan (German and French) is simply a token amount.  These two "great" powers use to be actively involved in world affairs and they have both turned inwards.  This is not good for Europe and it is not good for the rest of the world.
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Pfc_Norup

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2005, 15:33:26 »
Quote
The number of troops in Afghanistan (German and French) is simply a token amount.   These two "great" powers use to be actively involved in world affairs and they have both turned inwards.
The European countries didn't start the war in Afghanistan or Iraq, they supported an Allied. I personly, are very pro the American "gung ho" politic, but most Europeans are not... That does not make them cowards! Believe me, in a WW3 case scenario Europe will participate with their share of troops!

Quote
And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement. How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany
We have a large Muslim population in Europe... And that causes problems. Most European countries are first waking up now and are first starting to do things about it now, and it will take time...

Denmark had a lot of violent episodes and riots in the mid 90's involving 1st,2nd and 3rd generation Muslims. And for many Danes living outside of the cities that was an eyeopener. And in the election of 1998 7.4% of the votes went to the Danish People Party ( established in 1995 and pro tougher laws regarding immigration, citizenship and violent crimes ). When the rest of the world found out they attacked Denmark as being racist and Nazi and the same thing happened in the Netherlands a couple of years later!

There is absolutely no doubt that something has to be done about the "Muslim attitude" towards western civilisation ( especially concerning people allready living in the west ).
It will be done! But it will also take time! Every attack on European soil will only speed it up! Every attack on Muslim soil will propable just slow it down!
« Last Edit: August 11, 2005, 18:34:59 by Pfc_Norup »

Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2005, 15:43:01 »
The European countries didn't start the war in Afghanistan or Iraq, they supported an Allied. I personly, are very pro the American "gung ho" politic, but most Europeans are not... That does not make them cowards! Believe me, in a WW3 case scenario Europe we participate with their share of troops!
We have a large Muslim population in Europe... And that causes problems. Most European countries are first waking up now and are first starting to do things about it now, and it will take time...

Denmark had a lot of violent episodes and riots in the mid 90's involving 1st,2nd and 3rd generation Muslims. And for many Danes living outside of the cities that was an eyeopener. And in the election of 1998 7.4% of the votes went to the Danish People Party ( established in 1995 and pro tougher laws regarding immigration, citizenship and violent crimes ). When the rest of the world found out they attacked Denmark as being racist and Nazi and the same thing happened in the Netherlands a couple of years later!

There is absolutely no doubt that something has to be done about the "Muslim attitude" towards western civilisation ( especially concerning people allready living in the west ).
It will be done! But it will also take time! Every attack on European soil will only speed it up! Every attack on Muslim soil will propable just slow it down!

Do you think the steps currently being proposed by Tony Blair in Britain may be the right way to go?  Are these British measures similar to what your own Danish People Party would have proposed?  If so, based on the response I've seen to Blair's proposals, perhaps the western world is ready for such measure, with labelling them "racist", etcetera.
I love mankind.  It's people I can't stand.

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Pfc_Norup

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2005, 15:57:00 »
Denmark have been sending people "home" for many years. All people in Denmark whitout a citizenship who comits serious crimes can expect to be deported after having served their time in a Danish prison...

And if the UK deports a person who "fled" to the UK only to start praising attacks on London, Madrid and the US, I think it's 100% fair!

And I think Denmark will start doing the same soon - Hitz but taria is still legal in Denmark but their spokesman has been jailed for telling people "to Fight in Iraq and to attack any government trying to stop them"!


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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2005, 16:21:21 »
May I remind you that Spain, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Netherlands, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Norway, Lithuania and other European countries participated in Operation Iraqi Freedom and that Germany is one of the biggest provider of troops in Afghanistan... And I'm sure that a lot of Africans are happy about the French troops keeping peace...

And do you really know what a Crusade is...?   I do support military action against Muslim countries that don't play by International law.. But that doesn't mean I'm on a crusade!!!


Apart from the historical Christain Crusades in the Middle ages, yes I know what a crusade is, according to the Oxford dictionary it is;
Crusade n. 2. a campaign against something believed to be bad.
Having said that, yes we are on a crusade. We are on a crusade to protect Western Civilization from a religion that would forcefully convert or kill the infidal and rule by way of a theocracy. I guess you could say they are on a"crusade" against us. 

Quote
There is absolutely no doubt that something has to be done about the "Muslim attitude" towards western civilisation ( especially concerning people allready living in the west ).
It will be done! But it will also take time! Every attack on European soil will only speed it up! Every attack on Muslim soil will propable just slow it down

Here is a good example of the extermist Muslim attitude towards the West 

The Sunday Times, UK
Aug. 7, 2005
Insight Team: Ali Hussain and Jonathan Calvert
www.timesonline.co.uk
"¢ More news articles on Islam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ReligionNewsBlog.com "¢ Item 11936 "¢ Posted: 2005-08-07 18:03:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
While London reeled under attack, the teachers of extremism were celebrating - and a Sunday Times reporter was recording every word

On a Friday evening late in July a small group of young Asian men gathered secretly in the grounds of a Victorian manor house on the edge of Epping Forest, east of London, to listen to their master.

Debden House, a property run as a bed-and-breakfast and campsite by Newham borough council, was chosen because they were running scared.

Earlier that day police had arrested the remaining three suspects for the failed 21/7 London bombing. While millions of Britons watched the dramatic final siege on television, members of the Saviour Sect had come to hear a different interpretation of the day's events.

Among them was an undercover reporter from The Sunday Times. He joined a football kickabout as they waited for their leader. Others practised kick-boxing.

As they chatted the reporter was asked if he would be willing to wear a "strap" - slang for a suicide bomb belt. He laughed the suggestion off nervously and was relieved when everyone smiled.

At 8pm a bulky figure with a long beard and flowing white robe picked his way across the open field in the twilight with the aid of a walking stick. Two hours late, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed had finally arrived.

A Syrian with seven children who has lived on benefits for 18 years, this extremist cleric has been investigated by police for using inflammatory language but he has never been prosecuted.

Now, sitting cross-legged and picking at a bag of fried chicken and chips donated by one of the group, Bakri addressed his followers. He was perturbed by the day's events.

Rather than express relief that the bomb suspects were in custody, he was disgusted that two of the men, arrested in Notting Hill in west London, had been made to strip down to their underwear.

There was, however, some consolation. Referring to the capture of the first bomb suspect in Birmingham two days earlier, he suggested the freak tornado in the city that followed was divine retribution for the police action. "It was so close to the area of arrest," he said with a flicker of glee.
Islam / Islamism
Islamism is a totalitarian ideology adhered to by Muslim extremists (e.g. the Taliban, Wahhabis, Hamas and Osama bin Laden). It is considered to be a distortion of Islam. Many Islamists engage in terrorism in pursuit of their goals.

Adherents of Islam are called "Muslims." The term "Arab" describes an ethnic or cultural identity. Not all Arabs are Muslims, and not all Muslims are Arabs. The terms are not interchangeable.

The meeting then took a more serious - and revealing - turn.

Referring to the speed with which police issued closed-circuit television pictures of the suspects in the London attacks, Bakri suggested that they should have covered their faces to conceal their identity from prying CCTV cameras. This sparked a discussion with his right-hand man, Anjem Choudhury, which was taped by our reporter.

Choudhury: "It's CCTV, sheikh; that's the killer. You can't go anywhere without them monitoring you now: down the street; out the station."

Bakri: "There is million of pictures on CCTV. None of them said this man or this man . . . but when somebody speak, saying my son is this, my son is that, they will take picture of son and they will look at CCTV."

Choudhury: "Oh yeah, when somebody gives them a picture, then they can follow them around . . ."

Bakri: "People got big mouths. That's why the link to the family is not going to help. These people should be completely rootless. That's why Sheikh Osama (Bin Laden), he build all people young. He train the youth."

Bakri suggested that people were pointing the finger of blame for the attacks at his group.

Choudhury replied: "Sheikh, they're looking for the planners and the eggers-on. We fall into the later (sic) category. We're not planning anything."

DURING a two-month undercover investigation The Sunday Times has amassed hours of taped evidence and pages of transcripts which show how Bakri and his acolytes promote hatred of "non-believers" and "egg" their followers on to commit acts of violence, including suicide bombings.

The evidence details how his group, the Saviour Sect, preaches a racist creed of Muslim supremacy which, in the words of Bakri, aims at one day "flying the Islamic flag over Downing Street".

In his two months with the sect, our reporter witnessed a gang of Bakri's followers brutally beating up a Muslim who challenged their views. He listened as a succession of "religious leaders" ridiculed moderate Muslims and repeatedly justified war against the "kuffar" - non-Muslims.

He discovered that the core of the group consisted of about 40 young men guided by a handful of spiritual mentors. Many are of Bangladeshi origin, jobless and living in council flats in east London. They use aliases, taking the names of the prophet Muhammad's companions.

At their meetings - which often included school-age teenagers - they were fed a constant diet of propaganda warning that the kuffar are out to destroy them.

Integration with British society is scorned, as is any form of democratic process. Followers are encouraged to exploit the benefits system. They avoid jobs which could bring them into contact with western women or might lead them to contribute to the economy of a nation they are taught to despise.

In regular lectures and sermons it is instilled into them that Islam is a religion of violence. While publicly they did not defend the London attacks, they speak differently in private.

Bakri, who faces possible deportation with the introduction of new terror laws announced by Tony Blair on Friday, was taped saying that he had been "very happy" since the July 7 London bombings, which killed 52 people. After the second attacks, he described the bombers as the "fantastic four".

The undercover reporter, who has a Muslim background, first approached the group as a potential convert in June, three weeks before the first London attack. Posing as a university graduate who was disaffected because he could not find a job, he introduced himself to members of the Saviour Sect who ran a stall handing out leaflets on the Whitechapel Road, east London.

The sect and its interchangeable sister organisation, Al-Ghuraaba, were created after Bakri claimed to have closed down his militant extremist group Al-Muhajiroun last October.

The activities of Al-Muhajiroun, which notoriously praised the September 11, 2001 hijackers as the "Magnificent 19", had been extensively investigated by anti-terrorist police. However, as The Sunday Times discovered, the Saviour Sect and Al-Ghuraaba were Al-Muhajiroun in all but name.

The sect came to prominence during the general election in April when it launched an intimidatory campaign against fellow Muslims to stop them voting. They were captured on film yelling and attacking members at a meeting of the mainstream Muslim Council of Britain.

George Galloway, the Respect party MP for Bethnal Green, east London, claimed that they made death threats against him when they disrupted one of his election campaign meetings, shouting him down as a "false prophet".

At the time Bakri denied any connection to the sect and he has continued - publicly at least - to keep his distance from it. But members openly talked of him as their spiritual leader when our reporter first approached them.

They invited the reporter to attend one of their meetings that evening. It was to be the first of many lectures and sermons that he attended.

As he entered the entrance hall of the red-brick YMCA building in Beckton he was met initially with suspicion. Abdul Muhid, one of the sect's leaders, questioned him closely. Within minutes Muhid, 22, was explaining that most new recruits were former heroin addicts who had found salvation.

Another man, Nasser, in his early twenties with a wispy henna-speckled beard, implored our reporter to "unlearn" the brand of Islam that he had been taught as a child and to adopt a new approach.

It was important to be unemployed, Nasser said, as taking a job would contribute to the kuffar system. He said he was receiving a jobseeker's allowance and justified this by saying the prophet Muhammad also lived off the state and attacked it at the same time. "All money belongs to Allah anyway," he said.

There were other ways to opt out. "All the brothers drive without insurance," Nasser said proudly.

Bakri was the star attraction that night. Under bright fluorescent lights, he preached to the 50-strong audience about the need for a violent struggle to defend Muslims who, he claimed, were under constant attack.

With a new member in the audience, he added carefully that he was not actually "inciting anyone to violence in the UK". But the violence was not far away. The following afternoon the reporter witnessed an Asian man being beaten by members of the Saviour Sect for "insulting" their version of Islam.

The victim had struck up an argument with one of the group at the market stall. When he threw a leaflet to the ground he was punched in the face and a fight started. Up to seven members of the sect jumped on the man and began kicking him as he lay on the floor. A late intervention by one of the other stallholders gave him the opportunity to escape - his face swollen and bleeding.

Unabashed, one of group, dressed in an Arabic shawl, shouted out to onlookers: "You should not feel sorry for him. He is a kuffar and deserves it." Aged between 20 and 30, the members of the sect mostly wore traditional Islamic clothing, although some were in jeans.

Later that day it emerged that the man who had been assaulted had been a member of the moderate Young Muslim Organisation and was also a supporter of Galloway's Respect party.

One of the sect told the reporter that "the brothers" needed to calm down and stop attracting attention to themselves in public. "They should have taken him round the corner and beaten him there," he said.

On July 3, Sheikh Omar Brooks of Al-Ghuraaba addressed the group at its Saturday night lecture.

The 30-year-old, who comes from a Caribbean background and used to work as an electrician, converted to Islam after coming under Bakri's spell. He claimed that he had had "military training" in Pakistan. His speech that night at Oxford House, a Victorian hall in a side street off Bethnal Green, was intended to stir passions. He said that it was imperative for Muslims to "instil terror into the hearts of the kuffar".

Occasionally sipping a can of Fanta and gesticulating wildly, he declared: "I am a terrorist. As a Muslim, of course I am a terrorist."

It was not just our reporter's group who were present. Schoolchildren in T-shirts bearing the words "mujaheddin" and "warriors of Allah" listened intently as Brooks said he did not wish to die "like an old woman" in bed.

"I want to be blown into pieces," he declared, "with my hands in one place and my feet in another."

Brooks - who caused an outcry last week when he told BBC2's Newsnight that he would not condemn suicide bombers - called on a group of burqa-clad women in the audience to help the fight by making weapons.

He told the audience that it was a Muslim's duty to stay apart from the rest of society: "Never mix with them. Never let your children play with their children."

He added: "This hall is like our fortress against the kuffar and the so-called Muslims like the McB (the Muslim Council of Britain)."

Warming to his theme, he said: "They will build bridges and we will break them; they will build tall buildings and we will bring them down." The audience rippled with laughter at the obvious reference to September 11, 2001.

Nasser's brother, "Mr Islam" - believed to be Islam Uddin - had started the speeches that evening with his own fiery rhetoric.

He told the audience that Islam was a religion of violence and that Muhammad was the "prophet of slaughter, not peace". He said Muslims must not be defeatist as "even now the brothers in Iraq are sending British, American and Iraqi colluders back in body bags".

As his three-year-old son played at his side, he launched into a bitter racist attack. The Jews, he said, were "the most disgusting and greedy people on earth".

Four days after this meeting, on July 7, London was hit by the first wave of suicide bombings. Immediately the spotlight was thrown onto extremist Muslim groups and, in particular, those linked to Bakri.

The sheikh avoided difficult questions about the attacks by refusing to answer his telephone. He advised all his followers to do the same in the case they incriminated themselves. The sect closed down its meetings and stopped leaflet campaigns, fearing reprisals.

While he was saying nothing publicly, Bakri did, however, address a private meeting held for prayers at the Selby Centre in Wood Green, north London.

Before the prayers started, our reporter joined a small group of men sitting on the floor of the dilapidated 1960s hall in a circle with Bakri.

Bakri sighed. "So, London under attack," he said. Then, leaning forward, he added: "Between us, for the past 48 hours I'm very happy."

He drew an analogy for his followers: "The mosquito makes the lion suffer and makes him kill himself. If the mosquito goes up a lion's nose then he will make him go mad. So don't underestimate the power of the mosquito."

In his sermon during the prayer meeting he said that the July 7 attacks would make people "stand up and listen". He blamed the bombs on the West because they had "raped and killed" innocent Muslims abroad.

Turning to concerns that "poor" people had been attacked in the bus bomb, he argued that this was permissible because the British Army was drawn from lower-income groups.

The congregation was instructed to avoid expressing disapproval of the attacks. "If you cannot support what has happened, then at least don't condemn it," Bakri said. If anyone were to ask what they felt about it, they should answer that as Muslims they have no "feelings", "ideas" or "personal judgment".

He said that it was better instead to pray for the mujaheddin and to welcome the "beautiful" news from Iraq that the insurgency there had increased.

A member of the congregation who had brought along his two children told the reporter after the sermon that the British could now feel the fear experienced every day by Muslims. Another said that the bombs were "a good start" and asked Allah to "bless those involved".

The extent of the indoctrination of the members of the Saviour Sect became even clearer during the two weeks in July which saw the failed second attempt to bomb the London transport system.

During the twice-weekly lectures and Friday prayers, men who had struggled to find jobs and, in some cases, had drifted into drug abuse, were told that as true believers they were better than non-Muslims.

"The toe of the Muslim brothers is better than all the kuffar on the earth," Bakri said in one sermon. "Islam is superior, nothing supersedes it and the Muslim is superior."

Other regular speakers claimed that Islam was constantly under attack in Britain - and that the best form of defence was attack.

One, who called himself Zachariah, claimed that the kuffar were trying to "wipe out (Muslims) from the face of the earth". He implored the group "to cover the land with our blood through martyrdom, martyrdom, martyrdom".

Zachariah preached that the non-believers were dispensable: "They're kuffar. They're not people who are innocent. The people who are innocent are the people who are with us or those who are living under the Islamic state."

Another preacher, Abu Yahya, who is also reported to go by the name of Abdul Rahman Saleem, argued that Muslims were constantly being subjected to derogatory names by non-believers in an effort to demotivate them. The solution was aggression.

He said: "It says in the Koran that we must try as much as we can to terrorise the enemy . . . we terrorise those people who terrorise us." His message to Britain was: "Because you're a genuine democracy, all of you are liable."

The influence on the younger members of the sect was obvious. Nasser told our reporter not to worry about those who died in the London attacks. They were, he said, "collateral damage" and they were kuffar anyway.

This is not, of course, something that they would say in public. When Bakri finally commented publicly on the bomb attacks, he condemned the deaths of "innocents". But this was not quite the remorse it seemed.

At Friday prayers, on the day after the second bomb attacks, there was a buzz in the air as Bakri walked into the Selby hall in his brilliant white shalwar kameez.

In the preamble to the sermon he referred to the bombers as the "fantastic four". He explained that his lament for the "innocent" applied only to Muslims. It was a linguistic sleight of hand which he summarised as: "Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."

In the wake of the bombings, politicians and police have become increasingly concerned that groups such as the Saviour Sect are radicalising disaffected young men into potential terrorists.

On Friday the prime minister said that the successor groups of Al-Muhajiroun, including the Saviour Sect, could be banned under new anti-terrorist proposals.

At a hastily arranged press conference in Chingford, Essex, in response to the proposals, Bakri said the Al-Muhajiroun group had never supported terror attacks in the UK.

After Friday prayers, five cars full of sect members - including our reporter - drove to Chingford to support him during his press conference. When they arrived, however, they were greeted by Abu Yahya and told to leave quickly without being seen.

One of the group later told our reporter that Bakri had not wanted it to appear as if he were the leader of an organisation. He was still unwilling for it to be known that he was the leader of the Saviour Sect.

Behind the scenes the rhetoric of the sect was not blunted by Blair's crackdown. Zachariah weighed in with a new bloodcurdling sermon at Friday prayers at the Selby Centre.

"The message of Muhammad," he told his young congregation, "is how to fight the enemies of Allah; how to execute the enemies of Allah . . . how to return them back to the Allah. Not just through da'wah (invitation); not just through being kind to them; but with the sword."

He added: "Tony Blair is a Christian. He went to the Pope to praise him . . . and he went to Iraq for only one reason. Because of his ancestors who worked so hard to destroy Islam from the face of the earth.

"To dismantle Islam. To divide and rule . . . him and his ancestors worked hard from the crusaders in the beginning and then their empire building, installing their proxy leaders."

If the words were just as fiery, the sect was immediately becoming more cautious about its public activities. When our reporter asked for more leaflets and videos, Nasser told him that they had been hidden away.

It appeared that the sect was covering its tracks and preparing to go underground.


 
"There never was a time when, in my opinion, some way could not be found to
prevent the drawing of the sword."
- General Ulysses S. Grant

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2005, 16:37:47 »
Pfc_Norup is bringing up something that I saw while working with Danes over the last number of years.   Denmark has the same problem as we do in Canada.   There is a disconnect between the people in Denmark and the chattering classes that "represent" their voice to them and the world.   

In Copenhagen there is a celebrated tourist district, the Nyhavn or New Harbour.   It is connected to the City Hall Square by the Walking Street or Stroget.   This is the area that you find the expensive shops, the embassies, the hotels and one of the Royal Palaces, Amalienborg.   Norup knows it well I am sure.    This is the side of Copenhagen that tourists see.

At the Nyhavn there is a dock where Baltic Ferries come and go.   Across the water from the dock and the tourists there is a complex of high rises, much like you will find at Jane or Steele.   In America they are likely to be called the Projects.   

It being Denmark they are neat and tidy from a distance.

However, I seldom went down to the Nyhavn with my Danish buddies without somebody commenting about the Iranians over there, or the Arabs, or the taxi drivers, or those people living off of "our" tax kroner.   Other comments such as you will commonly find in a Canadian, Brit or US lunch room about "them" were as common in Danish lunchrooms, bars and livingrooms.

Thing is most people, there and here, have been conditioned that having "nasty" thoughts about "them" is inappropriate, anti-social, not the done thing.   So they keep their views to themselves until they know the people they are talking to.   TVs likely get less honest results than newspapers and papers less than polls and even when answering polls, especially if the pollster is one of "them" people will likely give the least confrontational answer or refuse to answer.

The noise that you hear on the airwaves has little to do with the reality on the ground anywhere.   The noise predicts progress, demands progress, wishes for progress, expects progress - and indeed progress may happen - but people move slowly.   Certainly not fast enough for the 6 o'clock news.

People are cautious, leary, wary.   They are reluctant to accept others with open arms.   That is a useful survival instinct and it applies to all people of all races.   Caution does not imply racism.

"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Pfc_Norup

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Re: Europe, Thy name is Cowardice
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2005, 17:14:58 »
Kirkhill: precisely!

In my school ( in a neibourghood known as "Nord Vest Kvarteret" in Copenhagen ) there was 90% 1st-2nd or 3rd generation citizens, ( most of them muslims ) so I have heard my share of "reversed racism/anti western world".
It is a problem for a country of 5 million to have 700.000 Muslims ( Even if only 5% feels anger towards the western world ).
Like the people in most werstern countries, the Danish people aren't racist, they are just tired of day in and day out hearing about problems made by the same type of people... I'm guessing that you have the same problems in Canada?

I think that the large muslim community in europe is one of the reasons why some European countries don't jump head in, when it comes to attacking countries in the Middle-east. I don't think it's fear or cowardice, but more a feeling that we have to priotice the country before the rest of the world...
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Bakri, who faces possible deportation with the introduction of new terror laws announced by Tony Blair on Friday, was taped saying that he had been "very happy" since the July 7 London bombings, which killed 52 people
Depotation is almost too nice for this guy!

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Brooks - who caused an outcry last week when he told BBC2's Newsnight that he would not condemn suicide bombers - called on a group of burqa-clad women in the audience to help the fight by making weapons
Sick people belongs in hopitals or facillitys... Not walking around on the street!

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Schoolchildren in T-shirts bearing the words "mujaheddin" and "warriors of Allah"
Stupid is what stupid does...

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The following afternoon the reporter witnessed an Asian man being beaten by members of the Saviour Sect for "insulting" their version of Islam.

The victim had struck up an argument with one of the group at the market stall. When he threw a leaflet to the ground he was punched in the face and a fight started. Up to seven members of the sect jumped on the man and began kicking him as he lay on the floor. A late intervention by one of the other stallholders gave him the opportunity to escape - his face swollen and bleeding.

Unabashed, one of group, dressed in an Arabic shawl, shouted out to onlookers: "You should not feel sorry for him. He is a kuffar and deserves it."
This attitude is one of the biggest problems facing the West. We let people join our little free paridise and they turn hostile! Why did they come to the West, If they hate us so much?
This is absolutely the biggest problem for Europe right now... We have many millions of Muslims and we need them to understand the right way of Democracy and Freedom. ( We can't force people to feel like we do ) but we can trow out people who refuses to live in peace like the rest of us! And I think we should!
« Last Edit: August 11, 2005, 17:17:38 by Pfc_Norup »

Pfc_Norup

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