Author Topic: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread  (Read 154507 times)

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Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Common Law Status Question
« Reply #400 on: April 27, 2017, 13:17:27 »
Time for a Clerk to weigh in that has processed MANY common law status requests including one for myself.

In accordance with the Military Human Resources Records Procedures (MHRRP) the ONLY documents required to claim common law status is the request form itself and the statutory declaration.  There is NO requirement to provide a lease/mortgage document to prove that you have been co-habiting as a couple for the process, in every single common law status request that I have processed (including my own) I have yet to ever have a lease/mortgage attached to the package.

I have heard this requirement from many clerks these days and I have informed each and everyone one of them that they are not inline with the MHRRP when that state that this is a requirement.  Whoever is stating that this is a requirement may want to have a read of MHRRP Chapter 62 and QR&O 1.075.
But it does make sense though to have proof or else anyone can claim common law when they actually arent and get a free move for the spouse.

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Offline Buck_HRA

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Re: Common Law Status Question
« Reply #401 on: April 27, 2017, 13:22:11 »
Thats why you get a prov rental agreement and sign it.

No, that's why directives as set out in the MHRRP Ch 62 need to be followed.

But it does make sense though to have proof or else anyone can claim common law when they actually arent and get a free move for the spouse.

No it doesn't make sense, it's not inline with policy.  Policy is there for a reason; for us to follow - not to make up our own rules.

As per the Military Human Resources Records Procedures (MHRRP) Ch 62 The ONLY paperwork required is the request form and the statutory declaration.  There is NOTHING on either form stating that a lease/mortgage is required.

The only requirement is that the member solemnly declares:
"that we have resided together for at least one year preceding the application for husband and wife/life long partners
that we have jointly assume the support of a child and are residing together as husband and wife/life long partners
that we publicly represent each other as husband and wife/life long partners; and
that we continue to live with each other as husband and wife/life long partners.

AND I make solemn declaration conscientiously believing it to be true and knowing that it is of the same force and effect as if made under oath, and by virtue of the Canada Evidence Act."

Original Poster, ask for the "Common-Law Partnership Application" and "Recognition or Re-establishment of a Common-Law Partnership" forms that are available in the Military Human Resources Records Procedures (MHRRP) Ch 62 References/Forms/Checklists.

Offline Buck_HRA

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Re: Common Law Status Question
« Reply #402 on: April 27, 2017, 13:24:09 »
anyone can claim common law when they actually arent and get a free move for the spouse.

That's called Fraud, and the Stat Dec references the Canada Evidence Act for a reason.

Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Common Law Status Question
« Reply #403 on: April 27, 2017, 13:30:34 »
Maybe it doesn't make sense in the military because they have their own forms. But my recruiter wanted to see proof on top of the declaration that way they knew my marital status/residency was valid and correct.

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Offline Buck_HRA

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Re: Common Law Status Question
« Reply #404 on: April 27, 2017, 14:06:08 »
Note to this thread

For new recruits it is up to the Commanding Officer as to what documents that they want to prove the Common-Law status.  While I personally do not think a lease proves that you are cohabiting in a conjugal relationship, to the point the only place I've ever lived that didn't have just my name on it was when I was a university student and everyone living in the house was on the lease.

With that said I have raised this issue to the appropriate staff that there is no consistency in the requirements to prove common-law and it is now being looked at by the appropriate personnel at CFRG HQ. 

As I got the call saying I got the job my recruiter asked me if I had a martial status like common law or married.

If you send me a PM with what CFRC you're enrolling with I can lend a hand in making sure you have the right paperwork for that det CO to agree to your CL status.  Please do not do up a lease purely for the sake of claiming CL status, this is fraud.

Offline Ryan_T

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question
« Reply #405 on: August 21, 2017, 19:40:52 »
Wasn't sure if this would be the right area for this. If not, I do apologize. Anyway, I am waiting to be merit listed and my spouse and son are considering moving to her parents place for the the time frame that I am in training. Will the CF still help out with the move or will they go against it because she had to live elsewhere for temporary means?

Offline EpicBeardedMan

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Re: question
« Reply #406 on: August 21, 2017, 21:47:19 »
Wasn't sure if this would be the right area for this. If not, I do apologize. Anyway, I am waiting to be merit listed and my spouse and son are considering moving to her parents place for the the time frame that I am in training. Will the CF still help out with the move or will they go against it because she had to live elsewhere for temporary means?

Short answer, no.

Long answer, the CF is not posting you anywhere until after your DP1/QL3 (Basic doesn't count) so you are not entitled to any financial aid until your initial posting. Her moving with your son to her parents place is not being forced upon her, that's a decision that she (and you) have made. Has nothing to do with the CF.

If I am wrong someone can correct me. I don't remember anyone getting financial assistance until they got posted when I did my QL3's/DP1.
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Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #407 on: August 21, 2017, 22:31:29 »
That is what I was asking about. When the posting happens, does they have to stay where we are living now, or can she go, stay with her parents (with all belongings) and they bring them with when the posting happens. We aren't separating.

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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #408 on: August 22, 2017, 01:12:35 »
That is what I was asking about. When the posting happens, does they have to stay where we are living now, or can she go, stay with her parents (with all belongings) and they bring them with when the posting happens. We aren't separating.

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This link may be of some help:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2011-2012-directive-ch11.page
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #409 on: August 22, 2017, 10:03:46 »
That is what I was asking about. When the posting happens, does they have to stay where we are living now, or can she go, stay with her parents (with all belongings) and they bring them with when the posting happens. We aren't separating.

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Upon your first posting, the military will move, at government expense, your "House Hold Goods and Effects" (HG&E) from your old "Primary Residence" to your new "Primary Residence".

If while you are on your initial training, your family moves your HG&E and changes Primary Residence at your own expense, that's fine; when it comes time to move, the military will still pay for you to move from one primary residence to the next.

HOWEVER, one thing I could see happening is this. Say, right now, you live in Toronto, and your first posting will be in Kingston, and let's say that will cost the government $20,000 to move you. Now, you move your wife and kids and HG&E to her parents place, who live in Sudbury, and a move from Sudbury to Kingston would cost $30,000. It's possible the military will say "Hey, we didn't force you to move to Sudbury, so we're only going to cover $20,000 of that $30,000, and you have to cover the other $10,000. I don't know this for sure! But it's something I would look into.

If, however, her parents live in the same city as you guys currently live, then I don't see there being any problem at all, as the cost for both moves would be identical.

Cheers
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Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #410 on: August 22, 2017, 10:34:10 »


Upon your first posting, the military will move, at government expense, your "House Hold Goods and Effects" (HG&E) from your old "Primary Residence" to your new "Primary Residence".

If while you are on your initial training, your family moves your HG&E and changes Primary Residence at your own expense, that's fine; when it comes time to move, the military will still pay for you to move from one primary residence to the next.

HOWEVER, one thing I could see happening is this. Say, right now, you live in Toronto, and your first posting will be in Kingston, and let's say that will cost the government $20,000 to move you. Now, you move your wife and kids and HG&E to her parents place, who live in Sudbury, and a move from Sudbury to Kingston would cost $30,000. It's possible the military will say "Hey, we didn't force you to move to Sudbury, so we're only going to cover $20,000 of that $30,000, and you have to cover the other $10,000. I don't know this for sure! But it's something I would look into.

If, however, her parents live in the same city as you guys currently live, then I don't see there being any problem at all, as the cost for both moves would be identical.

Cheers

They would be going to Cowichan which is on Vancouver Island. We are currently in the Greater Vancouver area


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Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #411 on: August 22, 2017, 10:42:42 »
This link may be of some help:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2011-2012-directive-ch11.page
From what I read, it looks like my family's move would be our own expense in this situation.

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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #412 on: August 22, 2017, 10:46:40 »
From what I read, it looks like my family's move would be our own expense in this situation.

Yes, it would.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #413 on: August 22, 2017, 10:54:10 »
From what I read, it looks like my family's move would be our own expense in this situation.

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Quote
11.1.02 Move of (D)HG&E

When CF members become entitled to move their (D)HG&E they may move from:

- the location of LTS;
- the residence that was occupied by CF members and/or their dependants prior to enrolment; or
- any location, however, reimbursement shall be limited to the cost that would have been incurred had the CF members HG&E been relocated from their place of enrolment.

The bit in yellow. As I said above.
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #414 on: August 22, 2017, 10:59:09 »
The bit in yellow. As I said above.

Yeah.  From the link I posted. 

;)
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #415 on: August 22, 2017, 11:23:49 »
Wasn't sure if this would be the right area for this. If not, I do apologize. Anyway, I am waiting to be merit listed and my spouse and son are considering moving to her parents place for the the time frame that I am in training. Will the CF still help out with the move or will they go against it because she had to live elsewhere for temporary means?

Make sure you get all this sorted out before you head on course. From personal experience, it's just easier. Yes, you can request to sit down with a clerk during course, as there are admin periods and such. But ideally, you'd like to take care of loose ends, change of info (address and such) and whatnot in a relaxed environment where you have ample time to explain the circumstances. Whereas on course, you will be told (probably very firmly) that moves during course/during your training period until posting are not permitted. (In my posting message it specifically stated this.) Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances, and things are handled case by case, but it will be much easier to get the move and address change done prior.
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Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #416 on: August 22, 2017, 11:42:01 »
Make sure you get all this sorted out before you head on course. From personal experience, it's just easier. Yes, you can request to sit down with a clerk during course, as there are admin periods and such. But ideally, you'd like to take care of loose ends, change of info (address and such) and whatnot in a relaxed environment where you have ample time to explain the circumstances. Whereas on course, you will be told (probably very firmly) that moves during course/during your training period until posting are not permitted. (In my posting message it specifically stated this.) Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances, and things are handled case by case, but it will be much easier to get the move and address change done prior.
What if the family decided to do the relocation (temp of course) just prior but I don't officially move there because of going to training?

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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #417 on: August 22, 2017, 11:53:34 »
What if the family decided to do the relocation (temp of course) just prior but I don't officially move there because of going to training?

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Just make sure that the address where your HG&E (Household goods & effects) needs to be moved from matches what they have on file. If your family picks up and moves (again, at their own expense) and you stay behind sleeping on a friend's couch or renting a room somewhere or whatever the case may be, fine. But you have to list your address as where they will move your family and belongings from. You can't have two physical addresses.

Side note: As well, your address needs to match what they have on file for travel claims when/if you actually leave for course. You need to be at the physical location they have listed for accurate travel/claim coverage.

Whatever you decide to do, just do it before a posting message comes in. To avoid complication/confusion, it's best you all stick together.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 12:08:27 by BeyondTheNow »
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Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #418 on: August 22, 2017, 12:33:59 »
Just make sure that the address where your HG&E (Household goods & effects) needs to be moved from matches what they have on file. If your family picks up and moves (again, at their own expense) and you stay behind sleeping on a friend's couch or renting a room somewhere or whatever the case may be, fine. But you have to list your address as where they will move your family and belongings from. You can't have two physical addresses.

Side note: As well, your address needs to match what they have on file for travel claims when/if you actually leave for course. You need to be at the physical location they have listed for accurate travel/claim coverage.

Whatever you decide to do, just do it before a posting message comes in. To avoid complication/confusion, it's best you all stick together.
I am waiting for a recruiter to call me back about this matter. I know that my families physical address will change if/when I go on course.

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #419 on: August 22, 2017, 13:48:36 »
Another consideration;  if you ARE going to move your family there, is there any chance for you to move there as well and have your file transferred to the nearest CFRC?

After you are done serving, on your final move, if you wanted to move back to this location on the Island, and you were enrolled from Vancouver with a primary residence address in Vancouver, there is the possibility the CF will only move you as far as Vancouver on the final move as well and you'd be paying the remainder.

My opinion from various experiences with moving in the CAF, if you can have your file moved before you are sworn in and your address is the intended place of residence on the Island, do that if at all possible.  I know it sounds easier than it is, I've done something similar myself in the past.   :2c:
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Common Law Marriage in the Canadian Forces - Mega Thread
« Reply #420 on: August 22, 2017, 14:08:31 »
Another consideration;  if you ARE going to move your family there, is there any chance for you to move there as well and have your file transferred to the nearest CFRC?

After you are done serving, on your final move, if you wanted to move back to this location on the Island, and you were enrolled from Vancouver with a primary residence address in Vancouver, there is the possibility the CF will only move you as far as Vancouver on the final move as well and you'd be paying the remainder.

My opinion from various experiences with moving in the CAF, if you can have your file moved before you are sworn in and your address is the intended place of residence on the Island, do that if at all possible.  I know it sounds easier than it is, I've done something similar myself in the past.   :2c:

This is good advice.  However, don't get too bent out of shape about the precise address of your dependants.  It makes no difference in terms of benefits when it comes time for your actual first posting move (i.e. moving your dependants, furniture and effects after all your training is complete) whether the CAF moves you from 125th St in Vancouver or Oak St in Vancouver.  It really doesn't. Your dependants can move on their own multiple times within the same area.  It all costs the same to the CAF in the long run.  If your wife and child move to Cowichan, it may make a difference (Lumber is quite correct on this) in that you would likely be on the hook for the difference between a move from Vancouver and one from Vancouver Island, but I would argue that in the grand scheme of things, the difference will be minimal considering the likely savings to be had if she lives with her parents (not to mention the reduced stress from having a support network close by while you're away).  Don't sweat the small stuff.  It is, however, important for your files to accurately reflect where your dependants are living, so regardless of what you decide to do, always make sure your chain of command knows where they live.

In summary: 

1)  If you can get your primary residence on enrollment to be Cowichan, BONUS!  You win on all counts.  (t may not even be necessary for your dependants to be physically there before you leave for BMQ.  As long as they have an address, you should be fine.  Not though that the CAF will not pay to move your dependants out of Vancouver at this point.

2)  If you can't, don't worry about it.  The benefits of her moving to Cowichan still outweigh staying in Vancouver (as I understand it).  You may end up a little out of pocket, but there are worse things.

As an aside, the CAF can order you, the member, to do many things, but they cannot order your dependants to anything at all.  Full stop.  However, what the CAF pays for is an entirely different thing.  So your spouse can do anything she likes.  Just be prepared to foot the bill if necessary.
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