Author Topic: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]  (Read 1054313 times)

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Offline SweetNavyJustice

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2005, 02:39:03 »
When you apply for UT you have to already have acceptance into a university.  If your acceptance is for a civi U and your picked up then that's where you're going to be going.  If you're taking classes at RMC, that that is likely where you will end up since you don't have admission into another school. 

As some of the other people have said, when you fill out your application it asks you where you want to go, and this info is based on where you are accepted to attend. 

As an aside, if you're doing a degree that isn't offered at RMC then you don't have any other option but to attend a civi U. 

I'm a recent UTP and am loving my time hanging out at civi U!

Good luck with the boards!

Offline Wookilar

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2006, 20:27:53 »
Been looking into maybe OT'ing into a different trade while I am still at RMC (still not sure what I want to be when I grow up). But, the only way I can see is the annual VOTP (or whatever that was called a few months back). Anyone know if you can apply for a trade NOT on the list or know anyone that has done this? Any help/info would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 19:30:04 by kratz »
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Offline Paish

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2006, 09:39:03 »
Well i don't know how otter does things but the way the VOR works on our end(I beileve) is that you put your application(Request what is needed from CoC) in through your CoC in the fall and do what they tell you. About trades not on the list, not too sure. The VOR process itself takes a couple of months and people are just starting to hear back from ottawa now.


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Offline Wookilar

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2006, 12:58:03 »
Thanks Beaverlodge!

The list is the problem, though. ??? Whenever I ask someone about OT'ing to a trade not on it, they look at me like I have six heads. Most trades are open, but why not for VOR? I ask............ummmmmmm.....I'll get back to you on that...ummm...ya....look, there's some really good openings on the list.......blahblahblah. You get the picture.

Most of the VOR this year was all pseudo-techie types and (ick) Air Force. Not really my cup of tea, you know. I have an image to uphold  8)
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Offline Paish

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2006, 15:55:06 »
Yeah i could pretty much see it going like this

"So i want to VOR to this trade here..etc etc"

"What? You want to VOR to infantry? Why excellent!"

"Tabernac"
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Offline GINge!

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2006, 23:18:37 »
Generally, if the trade is not on the list, that means it is not open for OT in as they are overborne. Depending on your current trade, you may not be allowed to OT out if it is 'distressed' or 'red' (not 100% sure what term is used these days).

However, since you are at RMC, I'm going to guess the CF has not yet invested a lot of training time into your current MOC and as such it might be easier to transfer.

You should try asking your squad boss very nicely to contact the SOC at RMC, who can then contact the career manager of the trade you wish to apply for. The CM usually has the best / most current status of the trade. However, now is a very busy time for CM's and you might want to wait a few weeks or months.
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Offline Wookilar

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2006, 06:19:23 »
Thanks GINge!

I've talked to the SOC in passing, but I want to keep it as official as possible, so I'll probably chat with my Sqn Com, AGAIN!

I'm in no rush, so I will wait a bit. I've got two years left here before I'm back to a "real" job. Last I could find out (through various nefarious, unofficial means) the trade I want is not overborne, but the one I am currently in seems to be a little desperate (they took me didn't they?).
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Offline bbbb

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2006, 18:47:29 »
Isn't the VOR process a long, long process that can be hindered if you are 71U?
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Offline GINge!

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2006, 23:03:34 »
If the board sits in May, and you apply in June, then yes, it can be at least a year.

I have seen a VOR take as little as 3 weeks however, if it is timed right.
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Offline bbbb

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2006, 02:17:13 »
Doing ROTP civvy U is a good idea since you won't have a sqn comd or sqn NCO raining down your necks. You'll live like an officer at civvy U, everything won't be handed down to you like at RMC. Ah, RMC, what a good life it's been, no worries, no want.

Choose RMC if you want a superior military education to what you could get at civvy U. Remember, there is NO military training here at all. You wear the uniform, do inspections and the like and do your studies/athletics, that's all. The rest of your time is either free time or, free time!
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Offline comfortablynumb

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2006, 22:30:13 »
I'd personally hit up a civi U for the chicks, but would miss out on the RMC deal.

Probably why I'm not going to do ROTP at all...


Offline Wookilar

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2006, 11:39:02 »
Between Civy U and RMC there are some differences.

For a career in the CF as an officer, the largest implications are that at RMC, you not only get your Second Language Training (SLT), but you also complete the OPME requirements (Officer Professional  ..... military....education? I can never remember the new one, OPDP was so much easier). Currently, you need to have the OPME's done before you are eligible for Captain (that's what we are told here, at any rate) and the rank that will you require a Second Language profile keeps dropping every few years.

Also, there is a larger connection with the military lifestyle. It may not be exactly like the real world, but it is closer than civy u (and just for the record, I have also done full time at civy u and civy college in my previous flat-face, long hair life).

There are advantages to doing civy u, but it all depends on what you require (degree, family situation, advance credits, etc) and, more importantly, what the CF requires of you.

Both have advantages and disadvantages. To say one is better than the other is being a little narrow minded.
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Offline bbbb

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2006, 13:50:29 »
Ok, what do you learn at RMC that so prepares you for REAL life?
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Offline Ditch

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2006, 13:58:46 »
Currently, you need to have the OPME's done before you are eligible for Captain (that's what we are told here, at any rate) and the rank that will you require a Second Language profile keeps dropping every few years.

Sounds like they are spinning you guys in all the wrong directions....  OPME's are for promotion to Major, as is a BBB french profile.  The only pre-requisite for promotion to Captain is achieving your trade and accruing T.I.
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Offline Scone

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2006, 14:38:26 »
Sounds like they are spinning you guys in all the wrong directions....  OPME's are for promotion to Major, as is a BBB french profile.  The only pre-requisite for promotion to Captain is achieving your trade and accruing T.I.

OPME requirements depend on the element  - for example the Army want their Capt's to have them done (though it is not a requirement for promotion,it is a requirement for certian positions), and the Air and Sea want them done for Majors. This should be covered in the new OPME policy, which is under review at ADM HR (mil) now - and is expected to be out sometime this summer.

You should note however, that the OPME (Yes it is Officer Professional Military Education  ;D ) program is only partially completed at RMC by the red coats. There are 6 courses, 4 of which are Univeristy Level. These are completed through the course of the regualr academics at RMC. The 2 PD (Professional level) courses are not covered, and must be taken at a later time. These are PME001 and 002.

muffin
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Offline 23007

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2006, 15:32:56 »
OPME requirements depend on the element  - for example the Army want their Capt's to have them done (though it is not a requirement for promotion,it is a requirement for certian positions), and the Air and Sea want them done for Majors. This should be covered in the new OPME policy, which is under review at ADM HR (mil) now - and is expected to be out sometime this summer.

You should note however, that the OPME (Yes it is Officer Professional Military Education  ;D ) program is only partially completed at RMC by the red coats. There are 6 courses, 4 of which are Univeristy Level. These are completed through the course of the regualr academics at RMC. The 2 PD (Professional level) courses are not covered, and must be taken at a later time. These are PME001 and 002.

muffin

Unless of course you take Business Administration where you receive 5 of the 6 OPMES. Then all you do is travel to St.Jean for a 5 day course to finish your Military Law OPME and the re-aquaintance of Rue St.Catherines. ;D
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Offline Scone

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2006, 15:48:58 »
Then all you do is travel to St.Jean for a 5 day course to finish your Military Law OPME and the re-aquaintance of Rue St.Catherines. ;D

You must be Airforce - the AF MA runs 5 day courses at the ELFC for those who can get TD'd there or who may be there anyway... this may not be possible if you are LAnd or Sea. The Navy runs "NOPME" serials on both coasts 2-3 times a year and the Army runs some courses on some bases when the demand is there. The AF also runs "AFOPME" serials several times a year - these are the ones you are referring to here.

OPME is a "living programme" in that it is constantly changing. We are re-developping the MilLaw right now in a more flexible format.

Warning - the following is MY personal opinion and does not in any way reflect the opinion of CDA, RMC, or the OPME Program admins ;) *that should cover it*

I wouls like to see the 2 PD courses (001 and 002), and maybe eventually all the OPMEs switched to a self lead study format where a student could register and complete the course when he/she wishes ... baby steps though :)

muffin
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Offline ACS_Tech

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2006, 21:20:32 »
I wanted to get an idea of where those who are going to a civilian university on a subsidised commissioning plan (IE ROTP?UTPNCM) are studying at and what degree program and MOC you are in.  I've been trying to find some information out through research on the net and DIN, but have for the most part come up empty handed.  What I'm interested in is what schools do people in these plans get sent to if they don't go to RMC?  I realize this is largely based on the MOC requirements, IE nurses and pharmasists go to schools that offer such programs, etc. but what about engineering?  Do many students go to schools that offer engineering other than RMC, and then are they limited to one or two schools, or is it basically where the student applies?  If you fall into the above mentioned category, or have some useful info on this topic, please post here.

For those interested, I'd like to know since I am planning on applying for UTPNCM.  However, due to personal reasons, RMC would be a worst case scenario for me at the moment (relatively speaking of course...I mean, it's still free school after all, I know).  Unfortunately, I plan on applying for a program that is probably one of the bigger programs at RMC (MechEng), of the 3 (civilian) schools that would be ideal or prefered for me, 2 aren't close to a base (Calgary and Windsor), with Manitoba being my 3 option.

Now, before anyone gives me the whole "you-should-be-glad-what-you-get-the-service-comes-before-the-soldier-stop-your-whinning" rant/post that I'm sure many of you reading this right now are itching to type out, I am fully aware that should I apply to the program, I should be ready to accept RMC as a potential offer, even if I don't mark it as a choice.  I am also aware that this plan is an officer production plan first and an education plan second, so the needs of the CF and where they feel I will best be trained will veto anything I have to say on the subject.  Thirdly, I am aware that I am not obliged to accept any offer that I receive, regardless of what school/program/MOC it is for (and however dumb it probably would be to turn down such an offer!).  For the record, I would go to RMC if that is what was offered to me, it is just not in my best personal interest at his time, that is all.

With that out of the way, like I said.  I'm just interested in seeng where all the civie ROTP/UT cadets are studying at and what they are studying, and specifically anyone who is in an engineering program outside of RMC.  If you feel the need  to know my personal reasons for not wanting to go to RMC, they are partially posted in another thread. Otherwise, PM and I'll be happy to tell you where to go. ;)

Offline Wookilar

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2006, 21:57:30 »
I'm at RMC now, going for a BA in Military Strategic Studies. I have many friends that are going to schools from NS to BC, Dal to U Vic and all points in between. I was accepted to three other universities, under three different programs that were all "preferred" degrees for my trade (LOG). (U of A as I was in Edmonton at the time, Dal and St. FX) For one reason or another, I was offered RMC, so off went the family to Kingston.

Be aware, there is a bit of a push on from higher to up the numbers of the UT's at RMC. If you have reasons to stay where you are, make sure you can back them up a little. Some of the people sent here are married, some are single. Some are here for 4 years, some 3 (like myself), some 2 and we even have one that will be at RMC for only 1 year.

The array of UT's attending civy u are just as wide and varied. If there was a pattern for the selection to attend RMC last year, it is too convoluted for me to detect.

For actual "official" info on degree and trade spreads between civy u and RMC, you might try and contact someone at CFRG in Borden. They may (or may not) have some data that can be released. If your PSO's office is switched on, they should be able to help out. I know the PSO in Edmonton over the last two years I was harassing them were very helpful. Another source of info would be to contact the University Liason Officer in your current area. They would have a lot of info at their fingertips, regarding what they have to work with.

Good Luck.
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Offline SweetNavyJustice

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2006, 13:45:20 »
I got picked up for UTP last year and am attending class at the University of Victoria working towards a degree in Psychology with a minor in Philosophy.  All this to be an MP O. 

This is my no means a fact and just my opinion, but from my understanding if you don't apply to RMC you won't get accepted.  If you aren't accepted then it's not going to be on your radar for schools that you'll be attending.  For UTPNCM (and ROTP for that matter) you already have to have your acceptence into your university and into your program of choice.  This is what is used as the basis for your application.  Out of convenience a number of people take university courses through RMC's continuing Ed dept. and as such this is generally who a number of people are already students of and a school that they are accepted to.  This is where you could get (for lack of a better word) trapped going to RMC. 

If you have acceptance at a university other then RMC and that is where you have done your (pre req) courses through then I would think it is likely that you would stay at that school.  At least this has been my personal experience.  I gained acceptance to UVic, did my pre req courses for UTP there, had no acceptance to any other university so it was an all or nothing deal for my app.  And here I am.....

Good luck.

Offline Shadow

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2006, 15:25:42 »
For UTPNCM (and ROTP for that matter) you already have to have your acceptance into your university and into your program of choice.  This is what is used as the basis for your application. 

Not necessarily.  There are many UTs out there who were accepted into the program without an acceptance letter from a University.  Most were given a conditional acceptance, based on them getting their admission, and some if didn't get in, did some OJT until they could get it.  I was promoted (demoted?) to OCdt without having an acceptance letter (OttawaU doesn't send them out until June/July for the upcoming semester), and was told that if I didn't get it, they would put me to work until I did.

ACS_Tech, you can apply to ANY University in Canada.  If you are on the east coast and you want to go to Uof Vic, you can apply and put it on your UT application.  If you get accepted, and Borden is happy then they will move you, your family and your F&E to the new location.

I wouldn't advise anyone to check the "Not Interested in RMC" box on their application.  In most cases it is an indication that your priorities are in the wrong place.  That being said, the military is VERY accommodating, and if there are issues such as sick wife, they will do their best to put you where you are best suited.  I met a guy who was doing his whole UT degree via correspondence so he could stay at home and care for an ailing family member.

Hope this helps.  Feel free to PM me if anyone has any UT questions.  I graduate and will be commissioned next month, and have been going to civvie U for 3 years (it was supposed to be 3.5 but I took extra courses to graduate early)  I am happy to help anyone interested in the program.

Shadow
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Offline Wookilar

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2006, 19:20:02 »
Do not get too hung-up on the "If you don't check the RMC box, you won't get picked up for UT" thing. My IAP last year was 28 UT's, half RMC, half civy u. Some checked the box, some did not. If you checked the box, be prepared. If you don't check the box, be prepared. CFRG may just offer you RMC anyway.

For the prep courses, mine were from U of A (5) and RMC (4) and Grant Macewan (2). Here I am at RMC, even though Dal and U of A offered me the exact same deal (academic wise).

And, keep in mind, if you don't like the offer, you can always say "no." Not the end of the world. Just keep taking courses part time and get your leaf, then inquire about CFR.
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Offline TDV-Arte-et-Marte

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2006, 23:50:02 »
Is it true that engineers at RMC have 3 vice 2 OPMEs to do after grad?

Offline George Wallace

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2006, 09:31:27 »
Is it true that engineers at RMC have 3 vice 2 OPMEs to do after grad?
Is there some sort of trick question here?  Why would they not be required to do the same amount of OPMEs as everyone else?
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Offline TDV-Arte-et-Marte

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Re: ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2006, 13:22:42 »
People taking science courses take an extra politics course while the engineers don't (engineers only take one politics course). Hence, when one graduates, one may need do one more course.