Author Topic: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada  (Read 1504 times)

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Offline aboode

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Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« on: April 12, 2020, 07:25:44 »
In the Canadian Government (Department of Defence) archives, there is a mention of Pipe-Major T Hoggan being congratulated for something by a Lieutenant-Colonel in 1946 in Lansdowne Park in Ottawa.
In another document he is referred to as Pipe-Major S Hoggan.
Has anyone got information for me about Pipe Major Hoggan, in particular his regiment and battalion?
Thanks, Aad

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2020, 08:53:13 »
Publication: The Ottawa Journal
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Issue Date: Thursday, April 25, 1946
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/49930262/

(Click the "OCR" link to see the text from the page.)

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"The district depot pipe band was in attendance; under Pipe Major T. Hoggan"

Offline aboode

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2020, 14:12:32 »
You mention the 'District Depot Pipe Band'. This seems to indicate that there were more District Depots. I am not familiar with these; do you know of which District Depot pipe band Hoggan was P/M and do you have a list of all District Depots , with or without a pipe band?
Thanks

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2020, 14:41:22 »
See this page for a list of the Military Districts: https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/districts.htm

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By 1939 there were 11 Military Districts

Search for "Depot" on this page and review to see their function during the Second World War: https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/Canada/CA/SixYears/SixYears-4.html

I do not know which District Depits had which types of bands.

Offline Dan M

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2020, 17:22:49 »
You mention the 'District Depot Pipe Band'. This seems to indicate that there were more District Depots. I am not familiar with these; do you know of which District Depot pipe band Hoggan was P/M and do you have a list of all District Depots, with or without a pipe band?

Ottawa during the war was a part of No 9 (Ottawa) District. After the war No 9 District was combined with No 4 District with a headquarters in Kingston. I have an Army postal list from June 1946 that does not show No 9 District still being operational by that time.

The newspaper article is dated April 1946. Depending on when the two districts were combined, the district involved could be either No 9 or No 4.

Cheers,
Dan.
An officer in The Canadian Guards should at all times, by intelligent study, conscientious application to his work and continual observation, seek to make himself so competent, so confident and so correct in all matters connected with the Profession of Arms that if he were to state in the presence of any military audience that "Pigs have wings", he would at once be both understood and believed. The wise officer, of course, will weigh all his statements carefully before he makes them. (ASAG 1960)

Offline aboode

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2020, 10:34:43 »
Dan M
I am still struggling with the concept of these District Depots: I assume that there was one Depot in each Military District. But they would surely not be independent units - how did they fit in the larger military organisation?
Aad

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2020, 11:22:24 »
This brief history of District Depot No. 1 from the last edition of the Depot magazine gives a general overview of the Depots' evolution and role:


Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2020, 11:38:31 »
And this is the page from the same issue on the Depot Band. The band title in the photo caption says "R.C.R." because when The RCR departed for overseas in 1939 the regimental band remained behind and became the depot band during the war.


Offline aboode

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2020, 13:07:53 »
Michael O'Leary,
Thank you for these articles. It does answer some of my questions, but I still wonder to whom the Commanding Officer of a District Depot would report, in other words what was the next higher level of command.
Thanks
Aad
 

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2020, 13:21:58 »
Canada Gazette, 29 June 1940

G.O. 110 Territorial Nomenclature for Units of the Non-Permanent Active Militia to Establish Representative Organizations

https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/canada-gazette/001060-119.01-e.php?image_id_nbr=322580&document_id_nbr=8461&f=g
https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/canada-gazette/001060-119.01-e.php?image_id_nbr=322581&document_id_nbr=8461&f=g

District Depots

11.   A District Depot (with sub-depots as may be required), with appropriate establishments as from time to time fixed by the Minister, to meet requirements for all arms, including a wing for each Territorial Infantry Regiment within the District, is authorized for each Military District.


Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2020, 13:30:29 »
Just thinking out loud electronically, I wonder if the District Depots evolved into the Personnel Depots that among other things served as army recruit processing facilities - that is they received applicants from the recruiting stations, assessed and processed them and swore the successful ones into the regular force and then despatched them to the various training organizations for recruit training - and handled releases, etc.

I suspect, based on what I recall of Canadian Army administration from the 50s and 60s, that the depots were administered by the camp or garrison that housed them, but tasked by Army Headquarters in terms of recruiting matters. Perhaps the district depots also had a training function, but as the war progressed, a large establishment of training centres/schools evolved. I live in Kemptville, ON just south of Ottawa. During the Second World War the town housed the school that trained the army's administrative clerks in what had been a provincial agricultural college until it was taken over by the Feds.

Online Blackadder1916

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Re: Pipe Major Hoggan, Canada
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2020, 13:45:53 »
Some of the questions may be answered in the official history, specifically Chap IV, RECRUITING AND TRAINING IN CANADA.

Official History of the Canadian Army in the Second World War Vol. 1
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/themes/defence/caf/militaryhistory/dhh/official/book-1955-army-ww2-1-en.pdf


. . .  I live in Kemptville, ON just south of Ottawa. During the Second World War the town housed the school that trained the army's administrative clerks . . .

And this is specifically mentioned on page 136.

Quote
The natural tendency, under modern conditions, is for specialized training
establishments to multiply, and this tendency appeared very clearly in Canada. Special
training centres and schools were very numerous. For, example, the Canadian School of
Army Administration, located successively at St. Johns, P.Q., Esterel, P.Q. and
Kemptville, Ont., provided an Administrative Staff Course (the word "Staff" was later
dropped from the designation) as well as courses for Quartermasters and QuartermasterSergeants and Clerks.121
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