Author Topic: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion  (Read 37921 times)

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #500 on: May 16, 2020, 11:32:43 »
https://thepostmillennial.com/china-may-have-as-many-as-640000-cases

Leaked data from Chinese military commission reports initial outbreak in China as high as 640k, if not higher.

Although closer, there's no way I believe 640k is the real number either. China is 5 times the US population (with 5 times as many people per Sq KM), with massive urban centers larger than New York. Looking here at the data from some of the harder hit areas (https://www.statista.com/chart/21176/covid-19-infection-density-in-countries-most-total-cases/), there's about 4000 cases per million residents. That would put China's total COVID-19 infections at 5.5 million.
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Offline MilEME09

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #501 on: May 16, 2020, 13:40:08 »
Although closer, there's no way I believe 640k is the real number either. China is 5 times the US population (with 5 times as many people per Sq KM), with massive urban centers larger than New York. Looking here at the data from some of the harder hit areas (https://www.statista.com/chart/21176/covid-19-infection-density-in-countries-most-total-cases/), there's about 4000 cases per million residents. That would put China's total COVID-19 infections at 5.5 million.

I agree, unless we see said leaked documents we do not know the date of the report either, 640k in January id believe, total? I agree with you.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #502 on: May 17, 2020, 00:28:25 »
Does anyone else find it interesting that the government insinuated they weren't above tracking Covid19 positive citizens cell phones yet we don't track the cell phones of rapists and murderers?
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Offline reverse_engineer

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #503 on: May 17, 2020, 00:55:20 »
Well they ban lawful citizens from owning weapons, but don’t focus on crime or border issues, so that should tell us something right there. It wouldn’t matter though, people would just leave their phones at home.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 01:02:16 by reverse_engineer »

Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #504 on: May 19, 2020, 13:58:21 »
Quote
Ontario public schools will not reopen until September

Ontario's publicly-funded schools will not reopen in June and will remain closed until September due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

The provincial government made the announcement at Queen's Park on Tuesday, saying that online learning will continue for the rest of the 2019-2020 school year and in-person classes will not resume until after the summer break.

...


https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-public-schools-will-not-reopen-until-september-1.4944536
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #505 on: May 19, 2020, 18:44:42 »
Does anyone else find it interesting that the government insinuated they weren't above tracking Covid19 positive citizens cell phones yet we don't track the cell phones of rapists and murderers?

I recently had a look at my kid's phone, which tracks the location of all her buddies in real time, amongst other things. In Northern Ireland it took a full rifle company weeks to put together that kind of information in the 80s, and it wasn't as complete, accurate or timely. We have been conditioned to accept increasingly higher levels of surveillance over every aspect of our lives because: pleasure :)

How Pleasure Lulls Us into Accepting Surveillance
The domestication of surveillance technology has caused big legal and ethical implications for security on both a personal and a social scale.

Showing Ourselves, Seeing Ourselves

These legal protections are welcome, but they still fall short of comprehending and addressing the ways widespread surveillance and social media have become culturally normalized. Robert Sweeny says these shifts have occurred through trends as wide-ranging as the rise of reality TV, security-centric news reporting after 9/11, and even video games.

https://daily.jstor.org/how-pleasure-lulls-us-into-accepting-surveillance/
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #506 on: May 19, 2020, 20:37:18 »
Does anyone else find it interesting that the government insinuated they weren't above tracking Covid19 positive citizens cell phones yet we don't track the cell phones of rapists and murderers?


You've been around long enough to know that the government hasn't got the stomach to actually do something about rapists and some murderers.

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Offline Brihard

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #507 on: May 20, 2020, 07:46:01 »
Does anyone else find it interesting that the government insinuated they weren't above tracking Covid19 positive citizens cell phones yet we don't track the cell phones of rapists and murderers?

Someone may have floated that idea, but it was never a serious one. In the case of criminal suspects you need a tracking warrant to follow cell phone location data, and a much tougher warrant to intercept any communication data. The Charter is still operative even in cases of emergency.
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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #508 on: May 22, 2020, 13:20:08 »
The Federal Government is ready to inch closer to the basic dictatorship of China. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/feds-readying-to-recommend-contact-tracing-app-1.4949895

Quote
Feds readying to recommend contact tracing app
Rachel Aiello

OTTAWA -- Responding to the need to increase the capacity to trace any possible contacts of confirmed COVID-19 cases, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says the federal government will soon be “strongly recommending” Canadians download a to-be-determined monitoring and exposure notification app.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/07/how-global-health-crisis-turns-into-state-run-surveillance-opportunity

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #509 on: May 22, 2020, 13:30:27 »
The Federal Government is ready to inch closer to the basic dictatorship of China. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/feds-readying-to-recommend-contact-tracing-app-1.4949895

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/07/how-global-health-crisis-turns-into-state-run-surveillance-opportunity
The noted friends of China, the Alberta provincial government, has a head start down that road then as their app has been on the streets for awhle now:

ABTraceTogether
Quote
...
ABTraceTogether is a mobile contact tracing app that helps to let you know if you've been exposed to COVID-19 – or if you've exposed others – while protecting your privacy.

Quickly identifying and isolating positive cases is an important part of our response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and preventing the spread.

The more Albertans who voluntarily download and use the app, the safer we'll be, and the faster we can reopen the economy.
...
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #510 on: May 22, 2020, 13:38:27 »
The noted friends of China, the Alberta provincial government, has a head start down that road then as their app has been on the streets for awhle now:

ABTraceTogether

Australian similar system has been critiqued as well for a number of shortfalls.

Offline garb811

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #511 on: May 22, 2020, 13:45:04 »
Australian similar system has been critiqued as well for a number of shortfalls.
A family member had installed the AB one. They uninstalled it a couple days later because it was a massive drain on the phone battery.
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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #512 on: May 22, 2020, 15:44:07 »
Start of a post:

Quote
“COVID-19 and the Disease of ‘Spinitis’ “

The political “spinitis” in Europe described Julian Lindley-French (tweets here) in his post below applies in spades to Canada’s current government under PM Justin Trudeau. His daily propaganda news conferences, at which he endlessly regurgitates talking points (sometimes barely relevant to the often softball questions), being a striking case in point. Excerpts from Mr Lindley-French’s post...
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/05/22/covid-19-and-the-disease-of-spinitis/

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #513 on: May 22, 2020, 16:45:31 »
The Federal Government is ready to inch closer to the basic dictatorship of China. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/feds-readying-to-recommend-contact-tracing-app-1.4949895

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/07/how-global-health-crisis-turns-into-state-run-surveillance-opportunity

We better delete some games on our phones to make room for the tracking apps CAF members are ordered to install  ;D
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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #514 on: May 22, 2020, 17:11:18 »
Leadership by example!  :rofl:


Liberals, Conservatives, NDP and Greens apply for wage subsidy as donations drop with COVID-19

The federal Liberals, Conservatives, NDP and Greens have all applied for a federal wage subsidy amid a financial crunch caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

The federal wage subsidy program is designed to help organizations keep employees on their payroll even if revenue has dropped during COVID-19.

The Bloc Québécois confirmed Friday that the party did not apply.

Braeden Caley, the senior director of communications for the Liberals, said his party has met the eligibility criteria for the wage subsidy in recent weeks and “received that support."

“The health and safety of Canadians is always our top priority, and all in-person fundraising events were paused as of early March,” he said Friday.

Cory Hann, the director of communications for the Conservative party, told The Globe and Mail the party has applied for and received the subsidy.

COVID-19 has had an impact on party operations, Mr. Hann added, noting it is doing its best to adjust to the “new reality.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ndp-applies-for-federal-wage-subsidy-says-covid-19-caused-drop-in/?fbclid=IwAR0ZfkIXxA3bhz66nP-c-nsyXeMs8Sma0uVwxsCKVDB1a1QvahPSS40dUc8
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Offline garb811

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #515 on: May 22, 2020, 18:07:34 »
We better delete some games on our phones to make room for the tracking apps CAF members are ordered to install  ;D
It always amuses me when people freak out about the idea of letting the big, bad, government track their movements, yet they are more than happy to give apps from Facebook, Google, MSN, Tinder, The Weather Network...whoever, access to their location data to have a "better user experience", all directly linked to them via their user profile data which they also happily provide, with zero control over what that data is subsequently used for.  Even better when they log into other apps using their Google or Facebook or MSN accounts just because it is easier, giving the companies access to even more sources of personal data at the same time.

Not saying that CAF should be forcing the installation of apps on phones. The US Army has had some experience with this:
Army intelligence soldiers were forced to download an app that could access all their personal information
Quote
...
Soldiers in the 504th Military Intelligence Brigade were told last month it was mandatory to download an app to their personal devices that would allow leaders to keep them up-to-date on training schedules and weather updates.

The app did far more, however, providing soldiers' precise locations, contact listings, and the ability to modify their calendar — raising major security concerns for soldiers that often work with top-secret intelligence.
...
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #516 on: May 22, 2020, 23:14:32 »
Not sure my friend, why wouldn't someone freak out when their employer, especially one with control issues like the military, force them to put a tracking or questionable app on their personal phone?

2 of the next 5 court martials are for sexual assault, by a corporal and major.  If I was a female caf member I sure  wouldn't want my supervisor tracking my location, let alone accessing personal habits or information.

I bought up tracking softwear previously and charter rights were mentioned, which makes sense. I also have a feeling I know what it means when our prime minister "strongly suggests" something. Similar to "voluntary" dnd surveys  ;D

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #517 on: May 23, 2020, 09:08:58 »
https://www.communitypress.ca/opinion/columnists/lilley-liberals-not-telling-the-truth-on-ppe-and-the-stockpile/wcm/0f2f65f3-b1ea-40d1-9d8e-0375c2349264

We sure don't want to answer any questions about how prepared we were.

100,000 masks when this started?
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #518 on: May 23, 2020, 10:11:22 »
Not sure my friend, why wouldn't someone freak out when their employer, especially one with control issues like the military, force them to put a tracking or questionable app on their personal phone?

2 of the next 5 court martials are for sexual assault, by a corporal and major.  If I was a female caf member I sure  wouldn't want my supervisor tracking my location, let alone accessing personal habits or information.

I bought up tracking softwear previously and charter rights were mentioned, which makes sense. I also have a feeling I know what it means when our prime minister "strongly suggests" something. Similar to "voluntary" dnd surveys  ;D

In the olden days, the Army was really good at tracking all of us through an analog app known as 'Sergeant Major.' ;)
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Offline MilEME09

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #519 on: May 23, 2020, 10:25:10 »
In the olden days, the Army was really good at tracking all of us through an analog app known as 'Sergeant Major.' ;)

Back in the days before technology, something about the old ways just have their appeal still.  Tracking apps are going to bring up huge privacy concerns, how is the data stored, and for how long? what data is being given? name? address? every place you go? how long you are there, if other people have the app, now you could be tracking communities, social networks, etc..... I would not be surprised if problems came up from the privacy commissioner or the courts.
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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #520 on: May 23, 2020, 12:51:26 »
Back in the days before technology, something about the old ways just have their appeal still.  Tracking apps are going to bring up huge privacy concerns, how is the data stored, and for how long? what data is being given? name? address? every place you go? how long you are there, if other people have the app, now you could be tracking communities, social networks, etc..... I would not be surprised if problems came up from the privacy commissioner or the courts.
My point is, and has been before, is people are already giving all of that up, for free and voluntarily, to companies. The same companies who, 95% of the time, have a stipulation in the EULA that they are free to do whatever they want with the data you give them. Including selling it for profit.  And just because a company is a good corporate citizen and doesn't do that, if they sell out to another company, that data now belongs to the company who bought them out and whatever their EULA is.

Facebook isn't valued at $500 billion simply because it pops ads for cat litter up beside the kitty picture you clicked like on...
Tinder isn't valued at $1 billion because of all the people paying for their premium subscription...
Alphabet (parent of Google) isn't valued at $1 TRILLION because they give good search results and free email...
President's Choice doesn't give you free groceries simply because you're a loyal customer and get good discounts with their app...
Shaw isn't being nice by having all those free hot-spots all around Canada where you can get free WiFi...
Your cellphone company has the data of every where you go, how long you spend there, who you call/text in each location, can aggregate everyone else who was at the same location at the same time who are also customers...
Ancestry doesn't offer cheap DNA tests out of the goodness of their hearts...

For people to be suddenly screaming, "Oh no! The government want's to track me with a COVID app!!" is ignoring the reality of what they have already voluntarily agreed to just because it is convenient. 

Again, not saying the CAF, or any level of government, should be able to compel anyone to install any kind of software, just saying people need to take a hard look at what they are already doing before they start expressing outrage about the PM musing about recommending that people install something voluntarily.
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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #521 on: May 23, 2020, 13:59:10 »
For people to be suddenly screaming, "Oh no! The government want's to track me with a COVID app!!" is ignoring the reality of what they have already voluntarily agreed to just because it is convenient. 

I totally get your point, but in the same vein private companies aren't threatening to jail or heavily fine people for going for a walk alone in a park. In a free society people get to decide what value their personal information has, and whether they want to exchange that information for goods/services.
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Offline stellarpanther

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #522 on: May 23, 2020, 16:52:33 »
I don't think the CAF will actually order anyone to install any app on their personal phones, I don't think they have the authority.  If they do it might a good idea to suddenly show up to work with an old flip phone or burner that never leaves the house.  As well don't apps require a data plan to work?  I was surprised to learn how many people don't have data on their phones.  I only recently got a small package about 6 months ago. 
As far as ordinary Canadians installing the app, most won't do it.


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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #523 on: May 23, 2020, 18:31:06 »
The whole thing sounds just too Orwellian for me. Another reminder that 1984 and Animal Farm are warnings, not instruction manuals.
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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #524 on: May 23, 2020, 22:54:56 »
My point is, and has been before, is people are already giving all of that up, for free and voluntarily, to companies. The same companies who, 95% of the time, have a stipulation in the EULA that they are free to do whatever they want with the data you give them. Including selling it for profit.  And just because a company is a good corporate citizen and doesn't do that, if they sell out to another company, that data now belongs to the company who bought them out and whatever their EULA is.

Facebook isn't valued at $500 billion simply because it pops ads for cat litter up beside the kitty picture you clicked like on...
Tinder isn't valued at $1 billion because of all the people paying for their premium subscription...
Alphabet (parent of Google) isn't valued at $1 TRILLION because they give good search results and free email...
President's Choice doesn't give you free groceries simply because you're a loyal customer and get good discounts with their app...
Shaw isn't being nice by having all those free hot-spots all around Canada where you can get free WiFi...
Your cellphone company has the data of every where you go, how long you spend there, who you call/text in each location, can aggregate everyone else who was at the same location at the same time who are also customers...
Ancestry doesn't offer cheap DNA tests out of the goodness of their hearts...

For people to be suddenly screaming, "Oh no! The government want's to track me with a COVID app!!" is ignoring the reality of what they have already voluntarily agreed to just because it is convenient. 

Again, not saying the CAF, or any level of government, should be able to compel anyone to install any kind of software, just saying people need to take a hard look at what they are already doing before they start expressing outrage about the PM musing about recommending that people install something voluntarily.

Private companies just want my money, and 99.99999% of them are willing to obtain my money through fair value exchanges instead of something illegal like fraud/theft/etc.

Government has a monopoly on the use of force and has a track record of using it in abhorrent ways.
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