Author Topic: Public duties - RCAF  (Read 3069 times)

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Offline Blackadder1916

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Public duties - RCAF
« on: June 26, 2018, 18:57:51 »
Much like 2 PPCLI who provided the Guard one year ago, Canadians are again in London and Windsor protecting the Sovereign.  This time in Air Force blue.

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/events/public-duties.page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rQ2DeW7aaY
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Offline Remius

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2018, 21:14:14 »
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2018, 21:16:11 »

They look good.

Agreed - and a whole lot better than the shambles that turned out for Harry's wedding.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2018, 21:22:05 »
Much like 2 PPCLI who provided the Guard one year ago, Canadians are again in London and Windsor protecting the Sovereign.  This time in Air Force blue.

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/events/public-duties.page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rQ2DeW7aaY

That's awesome. Well done all!

I understand that it's also the 100th anniversary of the founding of the RAF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2018, 22:18:24 »

They look good.

They do, but what would the forum be without picking out the flaws.

https://youtu.be/9rQ2DeW7aaY?t=51

Over the major's right shoulder, airmen along the wall, second man right of the tree, using his rifle's magazine as a footrest.
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Online FSTO

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2018, 06:47:11 »
They do, but what would the forum be without picking out the flaws.

https://youtu.be/9rQ2DeW7aaY?t=51

Over the major's right shoulder, airmen along the wall, second man right of the tree, using his rifle's magazine as a footrest.
I've never seen that before.  :rofl:

Then there is the MARLANT poopshow for the GG  :facepalm:

https://www.facebook.com/GGJuliePayette/videos/2293665957325394/

Offline Remius

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2018, 07:05:05 »
I've never seen that before.  :rofl:

Then there is the MARLANT poopshow for the GG  :facepalm:

https://www.facebook.com/GGJuliePayette/videos/2293665957325394/

Gah...
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Offline Once_a_TQ

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2018, 07:20:27 »
They do, but what would the forum be without picking out the flaws.

https://youtu.be/9rQ2DeW7aaY?t=51

Over the major's right shoulder, airmen along the wall, second man right of the tree, using his rifle's magazine as a footrest.

*Twitch twitch*


Offline Furniture

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2018, 07:36:25 »
I've never seen that before.  :rofl:

Then there is the MARLANT poopshow for the GG  :facepalm:

https://www.facebook.com/GGJuliePayette/videos/2293665957325394/

When I was a Cpl on the guard in MARLANT we would do a single one hour practice before a task... When your job doesn't include drill of any kind on a regular basis there is bound to be skill fade, and one hour every few weeks or months isn't enough to keep you sharp. The RCAF team spent 6 weeks in Winnipeg practicing before heading over, and it shows in how sharp they look.

Online FSTO

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2018, 08:16:21 »
When I was a Cpl on the guard in MARLANT we would do a single one hour practice before a task... When your job doesn't include drill of any kind on a regular basis there is bound to be skill fade, and one hour every few weeks or months isn't enough to keep you sharp. The RCAF team spent 6 weeks in Winnipeg practicing before heading over, and it shows in how sharp they look.

Well MARLANT is the "Operational Coast" after all. (sarcasm)

It's like they don't give a **** in Halifax anymore. They couldn't find a female LCdr to be guard Commander? Scabbard not hooked up, sword belt outside of the jacket, holding the sword wrong, WTF kind of salute was that during the Royal Salute?
If Rear Admiral Bains doesn't send a rocket down to Seamanship Div I sure as hell hope the Formation Chief does. That was a total embarrassment! 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 08:27:15 by FSTO »

Offline Remius

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2018, 08:20:41 »
When I was a Cpl on the guard in MARLANT we would do a single one hour practice before a task... When your job doesn't include drill of any kind on a regular basis there is bound to be skill fade, and one hour every few weeks or months isn't enough to keep you sharp. The RCAF team spent 6 weeks in Winnipeg practicing before heading over, and it shows in how sharp they look.

Does not excuse the fact that personal drill was terrible.  Belts were worn like gunslingers and the Parade Commander wore her belt on the outside of her tunic.

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Offline Big Spoon

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2018, 09:17:46 »
When I was a Cpl on the guard in MARLANT we would do a single one hour practice before a task... When your job doesn't include drill of any kind on a regular basis there is bound to be skill fade, and one hour every few weeks or months isn't enough to keep you sharp. The RCAF team spent 6 weeks in Winnipeg practicing before heading over, and it shows in how sharp they look.

I remember doing that duty a few times.

Offline Furniture

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2018, 11:45:45 »
Does not excuse the fact that personal drill was terrible.  Belts were worn like gunslingers and the Parade Commander wore her belt on the outside of her tunic.

Troops can spend the work day practicing drill, or they can spend the day doing the jobs they are trained to do... If we want people to look good on parades then we need to have a unit that does that as a job. Taking clerks, maintainers, cooks, forecasters, etc. and expecting them to look as good as people doing nothing but drill and ceremony as a full time job is setting yourself up for failure.

If we want a sharp looking guard at all times then we should make it a tasking and have people rotate in/out every 3-4 months. That's long enough to become good at drill, and uniform maintenance, but not so long that job skill fade is a real concern. Otherwise we will continue to have guards thrown together on short notice that are filled with people that look like a mess.

Offline Remius

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2018, 12:02:27 »
Troops can spend the work day practicing drill, or they can spend the day doing the jobs they are trained to do... If we want people to look good on parades then we need to have a unit that does that as a job. Taking clerks, maintainers, cooks, forecasters, etc. and expecting them to look as good as people doing nothing but drill and ceremony as a full time job is setting yourself up for failure.

If we want a sharp looking guard at all times then we should make it a tasking and have people rotate in/out every 3-4 months. That's long enough to become good at drill, and uniform maintenance, but not so long that job skill fade is a real concern. Otherwise we will continue to have guards thrown together on short notice that are filled with people that look like a mess.

Tightening a white belt and having a crisp salute or coming to attention doesn’t take a lot of time to master or maintain. Knowing how to wear a sword or finding out is incumbant on the individual.   

I can understand collective drill not being up to snuff.

If they look like a mess it’s a failure on the individuals and the leadership.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2018, 13:58:20 »
Tightening a white belt and having a crisp salute or coming to attention doesn’t take a lot of time to master or maintain. Knowing how to wear a sword or finding out is incumbant on the individual.   

I can understand collective drill not being up to snuff.

If they look like a mess it’s a failure on the individuals and the leadership.

The prominent beer guts will take a bit of work too :)
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2018, 15:18:58 »
The prominent beer guts will take a bit of work too :)

A bit of work to reduce or develop?  :)  One standard for all.
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2018, 18:41:33 »

They look good.
I concur. Pretty damn sharp. Well done RCAF.
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Offline gcclarke

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2018, 12:01:58 »
Tightening a white belt and having a crisp salute or coming to attention doesn’t take a lot of time to master or maintain. Knowing how to wear a sword or finding out is incumbant on the individual.   

I can understand collective drill not being up to snuff.

If they look like a mess it’s a failure on the individuals and the leadership.

Keeping individual drill up to snuff still takes and individual's time away from their personal job. And really, it's not something that can reasonably be practiced on your own anyways.

I'm also firmly of the opinion that every hour spent on drill is an hour that could be spent doing pretty much anything more useful. What actual utility do we gain out of this? How does it contribute to operational capability? Not one whit.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2018, 14:13:28 »
Troops can spend the work day practicing drill, or they can spend the day doing the jobs they are trained to do... If we want people to look good on parades then we need to have a unit that does that as a job. Taking clerks, maintainers, cooks, forecasters, etc. and expecting them to look as good as people doing nothing but drill and ceremony as a full time job is setting yourself up for failure.

If we want a sharp looking guard at all times then we should make it a tasking and have people rotate in/out every 3-4 months. That's long enough to become good at drill, and uniform maintenance, but not so long that job skill fade is a real concern. Otherwise we will continue to have guards thrown together on short notice that are filled with people that look like a mess.

Drill and parades are part of the jobs of clerks, maintainers, cooks, forecasters, etc.  I wouldn't expect them to be as sharp as the USMC Drill Team, but that was pretty bad.  Every CAF member should be able to do basic foot and weapons drill, and know how to wear the uniforms they are issued.  Full stop.

I don't know about the world you live in, but my world, there aren't enough people to keep the line ops at 100%. 
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2018, 14:35:32 »
So, with an RCAF bunch over there this year to coincide with Canada Day and an Army bunch (2 PPCLI) over there last year for the same Canada Day period, anyone want odds that someone in the RCN is already hatching plans to have a Navy bunch over there next year.
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Online FSTO

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2018, 14:43:57 »
Keeping individual drill up to snuff still takes and individual's time away from their personal job. And really, it's not something that can reasonably be practiced on your own anyways.

I'm also firmly of the opinion that every hour spent on drill is an hour that could be spent doing pretty much anything more useful. What actual utility do we gain out of this? How does it contribute to operational capability? Not one whit.

Your attitude towards drill, dress and deportment sadly seems to be the norm these days.
As a result, when we do form up a guard for a special occasion or for a visiting dignitary I am not surprised that we look like a shambling pack of slovenly civilian fast food workers.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2018, 14:59:20 »
The RCR will mount the guard this fall...
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Offline Furniture

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2018, 15:20:56 »
Drill and parades are part of the jobs of clerks, maintainers, cooks, forecasters, etc.  I wouldn't expect them to be as sharp as the USMC Drill Team, but that was pretty bad.  Every CAF member should be able to do basic foot and weapons drill, and know how to wear the uniforms they are issued.  Full stop.

I don't know about the world you live in, but my world, there aren't enough people to keep the line ops at 100%.

My world is understaffed and over worked too, which is why drill and fancy dress is not in my top three concerns.

There are no excuses for the worst offenders in the MARLANT video, but to expect the guard to look sharp is to set yourself up for disappointment.

Offline Remius

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2018, 15:34:13 »
Keeping individual drill up to snuff still takes and individual's time away from their personal job. And really, it's not something that can reasonably be practiced on your own anyways.

I'm also firmly of the opinion that every hour spent on drill is an hour that could be spent doing pretty much anything more useful. What actual utility do we gain out of this? How does it contribute to operational capability? Not one whit.



We are a professional or at least are supposed to be a professional military in every aspect. That includes drill and ceremonial.  Remembrance day parades, guards of honour for visiting dignitaries, local parades for communities all contribute to Canada's and the CAF strategic goals and missions.  So no it won't really help you operationally but get out of that mindset and think big picture.  Not every thing we do is operational.

Also note what I said.  Saluting and wearing belts.  How much practice do you need for that?  The MARLANT guys weren't doing overly complex drill.  no forms or turns into line or anything like that.  And yeah, the timing may be off or some movements might be off but there is no reason, NO EXCUSE to look like hot garbage while doing it.



   
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Public duties - RCAF
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2018, 15:56:23 »
I remember practicing for a family day parade that was happening at the school we were at in the UK for training (Sultan).  The RN officers thought it was funny watching the colonials practicing turns into a line in the parking lot by the weirdroom (DEOs don't learn that on basic btw), and it wasn't perfect on the day of, but more or less pulled it off. It looked sharp compared to the RN 'turn on the march' is a stop, slide the foot and pivot thing, which a few of the visiting families mentioned when we spoke to them afterwards. Our RN SLt counterparts were bear marching, and generally looked terrible, and the RSM got them to stay on the parade square and march around it a few times after the other 24 ish platoons got dismissed.

Didn't take much effort, and was just a personal pride thing at not wanting to look like a tool, but how hard is it really to spend a bit of time sorting yourself out if you are rusty?  If they didn't have laid on practices, sure the drill shed staff would have helped anyone out that asked ahead of time.  They were great when we borrowed some swords for one of the guys weddings, and a PO there ran us through forming the arch in about 15 minutes over lunch one day.