Author Topic: On Political Correctness  (Read 10677 times)

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Offline Pusser

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2018, 14:00:44 »
I am loving the faux outrage about the shoe smuggling, seems suddenly, no one knows anyone that has smuggled everyday stuff across the border.

Next time I'm in the US, I will be enquiring about shoe-scuffing stations in the outlet malls.
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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #51 on: July 04, 2018, 16:13:43 »
The tire place I use in the States scuffs your new tires and removes the nubs for free without even asking.
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Offline Pusser

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2018, 14:50:53 »
The tire place I use in the States scuffs your new tires and removes the nubs for free without even asking.

I heard of a place in the US that used to call Canada Customs and inform them after customers had left.  I'm not sure how much repeat business they got from Canadian customers.
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2018, 08:46:49 »
I heard of a place in the US that used to call Canada Customs and inform them after customers had left.  I'm not sure how much repeat business they got from Canadian customers scofflaws and tax cheats who are avoiding paying a legally required customs tax.

Fixed that for you.  I guess the rule of law only applies in other countries.

 :facepalm:
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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2018, 09:30:27 »
Come on PPCLI Guy. You are a man of the world. You must know by now that there are millions of Canadians who view it as their God given right to criticize America and Americans...and then go cross border shopping for cheap milk, gasoline or clothes.

It is as old as time....

Offline Pusser

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2018, 10:20:57 »
Fixed that for you.  I guess the rule of law only applies in other countries.

 :facepalm:

I think your venom is misguided because I actually agree with you.  I have never understood the folks who make special trips to the US strictly for shopping.  I can't see how there are any real savings to be had after you've figured in the exchange rate, cost of accommodations, cost of transportation, time, etc.  Furthermore, considering that one can claim $800 duty free to start (after 48 hrs absence) and then a special duty rate after that, I just can't see how it's worth it to lie to a Customs officer and risk huge fines and duties or forfeiture.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure it's up to a private business in the US to take it upon themselves to report someone, without any evidence they will commit a crime, to the Canadian Border Services Agency.  Just because a Canadian spent a lot of money in a US shop, does not mean they aren't going to declare it properly.  What if the person who had patronized that shop was preparing to declare everything and had all the receipts ready, but had his vehicle ripped apart in secondary inspection based on a helpful tip from a US business?  I certainly wouldn't go back to that business, nor would I recommend it to my friends based on the fact that:

1) they caused me undue hassle at the border for no good reason; and

2) they obviously have no respect for me (the customer) in automatically assuming I am a criminal.
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2018, 11:23:03 »
Not sure that was venom - those that know me would suggest my venom is a bit stronger...

It was not aimed at businesses.  It was aimed at Canadians who think it is okay to cheat / avoid customs taxes.  Those people are committing an illegal act.  Period.  No amount of justification can alter that fact.
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2018, 12:19:07 »
Not sure that was venom - those that know me would suggest my venom is a bit stronger...

It was not aimed at businesses.  It was aimed at Canadians who think it is okay to cheat / avoid customs taxes.  Those people are committing an illegal act.  Period.  No amount of justification can alter that fact.

I was just impressed at someone casually using the term 'scoff laws' in a conversation outside of the Simpson's
#Montgomeryburnsbustsscofflaws :) 
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2018, 13:03:52 »
I think your venom is misguided because I actually agree with you.  I have never understood the folks who make special trips to the US strictly for shopping.  I can't see how there are any real savings to be had after you've figured in the exchange rate, cost of accommodations, cost of transportation, time, etc.  Furthermore, considering that one can claim $800 duty free to start (after 48 hrs absence) and then a special duty rate after that, I just can't see how it's worth it to lie to a Customs officer and risk huge fines and duties or forfeiture.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure it's up to a private business in the US to take it upon themselves to report someone, without any evidence they will commit a crime, to the Canadian Border Services Agency.  Just because a Canadian spent a lot of money in a US shop, does not mean they aren't going to declare it properly.  What if the person who had patronized that shop was preparing to declare everything and had all the receipts ready, but had his vehicle ripped apart in secondary inspection based on a helpful tip from a US business?  I certainly wouldn't go back to that business, nor would I recommend it to my friends based on the fact that:

1) they caused me undue hassle at the border for no good reason; and

2) they obviously have no respect for me (the customer) in automatically assuming I am a criminal.

I live in a border city. I shop in the States all the time. Your trip is what you make it. There are tons of deals to be had, if you know how to do it. Even after exchange and duty. Things like electronics are mostly duty free, but not tax free.

I've been hearing rumours of retailers in the states reporting Canadians ever since I was a kid. There has never been a case of proof, as far as I know, that anyone actually did this. Just a boogeyman story. It's more likely the jealous neighbor, that he told the whole story to, that turned him in. I just don't buy the story after all these years. Besides, unless you tell them or they see your license plate, they have no idea that you're Canadian, or when and where you intend to cross the border. Or that anyone in the Canadian government works hard enough to get that phone call from the states and pass it through all the channels and get it to the border before the person re-enters Canada. Just think about the logistics of such a call.

There are plenty of deals to be had, without breaking the law. However, that's your business. Thousands do it daily. At the same time, there are thousands that just aren't asked the right questions. If I answer all questions truthfully and don't get sent to secondary, I might still be bringing in goods not accounted for but border services is letting me go.  The border service employs two types of guards. Some are sheepdogs that protect our border, as they are employed to do, others are merely tax collectors for the feds. It's luck of the draw as to which one you get.
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Offline Remius

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2018, 13:39:11 »
It does seem counter productive for American retailers to report Canadian shoppers.  If it actually happens one would think that it would affect sales.

I do have one real example where a CAF soldier in Fort Knox (one of our concentrations years ago) bought a taser.  The retailer had no issues selling it to him but he then reported the guy to the base who informed the CoC about it.  Delayed our flight out as they searched all our bags and weapons bags as well (the thought was he could get it out via our weapons bags).  They never found the taser.  The fact is that the dealer likely did the right thing knowing the troop was going to commit a  criminal act by bringing in a prohibited weapon but had no grounds to refuse the sale as it is legal there.

Failure to declare everything you buy or conveniently forgetting a few things to stay under your limit is fairly minor by comparison though.

I rarely go too much over when shopping in  the US and most of the time it isn't worth processing the small amount I go over by.
Optio

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2018, 13:49:40 »

Failure to declare everything you buy or conveniently forgetting a few things to stay under your limit is fairly minor by comparison though.


Kind of like failure to scan all of the items at self checkout is not shop lifting, right?

Conveniently forgetting that you stuffed some pork chops in your pants when you get to the cashier is okay too I guess.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2018, 14:26:40 »
Just like when they ask what's down your pants and you say 'pork chops.' Then they say 'have a nice day.' I guess you should run to the nearest police officer and turn yourself and the customs officer in?

Just wondering where you limit the morality.

Because, I declare everything. Hundreds of dollars sometimes. Been told to proceed and have a great day. Should I present at secondary anyway and demand to pay taxes and duty?

« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 14:30:04 by recceguy »
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2018, 14:46:43 »
>they have no idea that you're Canadian

They have ways.  Often they will guide the conversation to trick you into pronouncing the word "about".

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2018, 15:06:04 »
My wife and I shop in the US 2-3 times per year. Normally we take the time to itemize everything before we return to the border. I just hand the passports and the list to the border agent. Half the time I'm let go, the other half I'm directed to secondary. Even with paying at secondary I've yet to be on the losing end.

Honesty at the border is always the best policy.
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Offline Remius

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2018, 16:05:39 »
Kind of like failure to scan all of the items at self checkout is not shop lifting, right?

Conveniently forgetting that you stuffed some pork chops in your pants when you get to the cashier is okay too I guess.

My point is that actually trying to bringing a taser into the country and have the retailer report you isn't the same as me buying shoes and having the retailer pass that info on to CBSA just in case I might fail to declare that.

For the record I always disclose everything I buy.
Optio

Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #65 on: July 06, 2018, 16:21:53 »
>they have no idea that you're Canadian

They have ways.  Often they will guide the conversation to trick you into pronouncing the word "about".

You are joking right??
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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #66 on: July 06, 2018, 19:10:39 »
I almost snorted.

Offline FJAG

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #67 on: July 06, 2018, 20:31:52 »
Just like when they ask what's down your pants and you say 'pork chops.' Then they say 'have a nice day.' I guess you should run to the nearest police officer and turn yourself and the customs officer in?

Just wondering where you limit the morality.

Because, I declare everything. Hundreds of dollars sometimes. Been told to proceed and have a great day. Should I present at secondary anyway and demand to pay taxes and duty?

My experiences are just like yours. We go across several months every winter and usually come back well under our limit. On day trips (3 or 4 per year) we're constantly over but declare every nickle we bought and have the receipts ready to go. Every time they say "have a nice day" and send us off without a secondary. Most of the stuff we (and most people buy) buy is NAFTA duty free anyway and would only be subject to HST.

Morality aside (although I subscribe to it) it's just not worth it to try and cheat. Besides being able to seize the goods and vehicle you open yourself up to having a black mark on your record which means that you'll be quite likely shuttled to a secondary on each and every subsequent crossing.

Like you I live near the border and find that there are things that you can only get on the other side of the border - Trader Joe's Orange Chicken; Oscar Meyer Lite Hot Dogs; Sunkist Diet Orange Soda; Amsterdam Coconut Vodka  ;D

 :cheers:
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2018, 11:42:41 »
Meanwhile, at Facebook ;)

Facebook's algorithms have ruled that parts of the US Declaration of Independence are hate speech and removed excerpts of them posted to the platform.

In the run-up to Independence Day, a US community paper based in Texas had been posting small daily chunks of the historic document on its Facebook page.

At issue was a part of it that referred to "merciless Indian savages".

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44722728

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Offline Altair

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2018, 11:33:58 »
Meanwhile, at Facebook ;)

Facebook's algorithms have ruled that parts of the US Declaration of Independence are hate speech and removed excerpts of them posted to the platform.

In the run-up to Independence Day, a US community paper based in Texas had been posting small daily chunks of the historic document on its Facebook page.

At issue was a part of it that referred to "merciless Indian savages".

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44722728
And then humans took a look and allowed it?
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #70 on: August 12, 2018, 10:39:53 »
A very interesting piece on "compelled speech", including an interview with Barbara Kay. Well worth watching the interview. Kay points out the plight of journalists and commentators who oppose this but don't speak out publicly, most of them are not financially secure and if kicked off from a platform, would have a hard time finding a new position (especially since Canadian media is hight concentrated in terms of ownership)

http://www.andrewlawton.ca/compelled-speech-is-the-new-censorship/
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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #71 on: August 12, 2018, 12:23:50 »
A very interesting piece on "compelled speech", including an interview with Barbara Kay. Well worth watching the interview. Kay points out the plight of journalists and commentators who oppose this but don't speak out publicly, most of them are not financially secure and if kicked off from a platform, would have a hard time finding a new position (especially since Canadian media is hight concentrated in terms of ownership)

http://www.andrewlawton.ca/compelled-speech-is-the-new-censorship/

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Offline Xylric

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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2018, 00:42:10 »
A thought on Political Correctness, drawn from a personal anecdote.

After I graduated from Bible College with my bachelor's degree in Religious Education, my family held something of a celebration of the fact. Beyond several members of my extended family, we had invited a number of my friends to high school. One such friend (whom I am happily no longer in contact with as a result) brought his girlfriend along. I'd met her before, so I didn't particularly mind. I wasn't entirely fond with her because something about her raised several warning flags, and it didn't take very long for me to gain an understanding of why.

My mother's father passed away in 1999 from cancer, and as he had spent his retirement as a carpenter, made many different objects - including the candy bowl sitting next to me at this moment. One such object was a piece of Christian iconography, which were three crosses joined together in a single piece. As he wasn't the most emotional person, it was difficult for him to speak with affection to anyone. But he was a man of a deep and real faith, so he had made five of these crosses, one for each of his children (the one he made for my grandmother is slightly different), as a symbol both of his love for his children, and his hope that they would have as deep a faith as his own - even if they did not hold the same beliefs.

The barbecue and event was going quite well to my eyes, so I didn't learn of this incident until some time had passed, but apparently the girlfriend took objection to the open display of this piece of art, and effectively demanded my mother remove it from her sight. My mother quite wisely refused, and they left rather rapidly shortly there after. I'm significantly understating things when I merely say that she took objection to this piece being visible. I have many friends with a variety of beliefs, including someone best described as a pagan priestess. All of them recognize a little thing called the sacredness of hospitality, of which this event was a remarkable violation.

A mutual friend later asked why I was no longer in contact with this particular couple, so I informed him of this particular matter. While he was at the same celebration, he was not aware that this had occurred. His simple response was a horrified expletive, to put mildly, because you just don't do that. Her hatred for even the slightest indication of Christian belief is still something I can't wrap my head around, because her personal past meant that she could look upon this symbol of a father's love for his children and be sufficiently offended that she demanded it be removed.

A lot of the troubles around certain hot-button disputes strike me as being ultimately the same thing in function - the projection of one's negative experiences into the assumed motivations of those one disagrees with. In all honesty, this is why I'm proud to have had someone tell me that they figured I would be offended if they suggested that I was trustworthy. Not because I'm a duplicitous individual, but because he was acknowledging that he could not accurately determine my motivations and reasons. In other words, he acknowledged that I was an inherently honest individual because I was very much like the fabled scorpion - he could not be certain that I would act in a fashion that would be beneficial to him, but he knew with certainty that I would always act in a fashion that was consistent with my own nature and character.

I extend the concept of hospitality being sacred to go beyond one's domicile, and include things like one's sense of self and intrinsic being. After all, if one does not feel at home inside one's own mind, one is in very dire circumstances indeed. I hold nothing to be more important on the personal level than the sanctity of one's own mind. How threatened must one feel when basic social interaction with someone who has a different background is determined to be inherently dangerous?

I put it this way - the problem with political correctness is neatly illustrated in the film The Hunt for Red October - isn't the Political Officer the first person murdered?


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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2018, 19:46:49 »
For general information - The poll was conducted by YouGov


"80 Percent Of Americans Think Political Correctness Is A National Problem


....Eighty percent of Americans say “political correctness is a problem in our country,” according to newly released data from a nationally representative poll drawing upon 8,000 survey respondents, 30 one-hour interviews, and six focus group. Some of this data, compiled with help from YouGov, has been newly released in a report called “Hidden Tribes.”....


Opposition to political correctness was higher among Asians (82 percent), Hispanics (87 percent), and American Indians (88 percent) than among white Americans (79 percent). In fact, just about every single demographic studied showed overwhelming objection to political correctness except the Americans the study reporting the poll results identified as “progressive activists.” Progressive activists, the study says, “have an outsized role in political discourse, even though they comprise a small portion of the total population (about 1 in 12 Americans).”

About the 8 Percent of People Who Love PC

“Progressive activists are the only group that strongly backs political correctness: Only 30 percent see it as a problem,”

...progressive activists are much more likely to be rich, highly educated—and white. They are nearly twice as likely as the average to make more than $100,000 a year. They are nearly three times as likely to have a postgraduate degree. And while 12 percent of the overall sample in the study is African American, only 3 percent of progressive activists are. With the exception of the small tribe of devoted conservatives, progressive activists are the most racially homogeneous group in the country. ..."

http://thefederalist.com/2018/10/12/80-percent-of-americans-think-political-correctness-is-a-national-problem/
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Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2018, 14:12:36 »
Further to my last

The detailed study on political tribes and political correctness  https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/

The only tribe with a majority supporting political correctness is that of the progressive activists.  All other tribes, including the traditional liberals, have majorities ranging from 61% to 97% perceiving political correctness as a problem. 

The perception is congruent for

74% of youngsters of 24-29
75% of African Americans
79% of youngsters under 24
79% of Whites
82% of Asians
87% of Hispanics
88% of American Indians

Quote
progressive activists are much more likely to be rich, highly educated—and white. They are nearly twice as likely as the average to make more than $100,000 a year. They are nearly three times as likely to have a postgraduate degree. And while 12 percent of the overall sample in the study is African American, only 3 percent of progressive activists are. With the exception of the small tribe of devoted conservatives, progressive activists are the most racially homogeneous group in the country.

Progressive activists - 8% of the population
Traditional liberals
Passive liberals
Disengaged
Moderates
Traditional conservatives
Devoted conservatives - 25% of the population

The study identifies the 63% in the middle as the Exhausted Majority - people open to compromise and not finding any evidence of it.

Quote
The study was written by More in Common, an organization founded in memory of Jo Cox, the British MP who was murdered in the run-up to the Brexit referendum. It is based on a nationally representative poll with 8,000 respondents, 30 one-hour interviews, and six focus groups conducted from December 2017 to September 2018.


The Atlantic is not a notably conservative journal.
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