Author Topic: US vs Canada  (Read 10284 times)

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Offline Cdn Blackshirt

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2018, 11:16:13 »
What is Scheers position on legal weed?

His party voted against it, would he try to limit it or repeal it?

If so, the conservatives are dead in the water. No way Canadians vote for a party taking away their legal bud.

Based on some reading I've done on side effects causing various psychosis issues (worse in developing brains), I have a bad feeling that our new-found freedoms are going to come back and bite us in the ***, bigtime.

Specific Predictions:
1.  Adding taxes to Cannabis in a 'legalized' jurisdiction is only going to drive up personal and underground growing, which will drive black market costs down. 
2.  Lower penalties will incentivize more street thugs getting into dealing, rather than less.
3.  Non-Legal distribution (without taxation) will likely also focus on higher-strength cannabis, where tests on the impact on brain health are much less certain.

Bottom Line is I don't see any way this ends up any other way than bad.  If a political party wanted to do a test run with pharmacy-distributed Cannabis oil, I would have totally backed that.  But I think this is going to be giant train wreck.

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Offline Pusser

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2018, 11:45:58 »
Or nickelback?

For a band that nobody likes, they seem to sell a lot of records...
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Offline Altair

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2018, 12:10:56 »
Based on some reading I've done on side effects causing various psychosis issues (worse in developing brains), I have a bad feeling that our new-found freedoms are going to come back and bite us in the ***, bigtime.

Specific Predictions:
1.  Adding taxes to Cannabis in a 'legalized' jurisdiction is only going to drive up personal and underground growing, which will drive black market costs down. 
2.  Lower penalties will incentivize more street thugs getting into dealing, rather than less.
3.  Non-Legal distribution (without taxation) will likely also focus on higher-strength cannabis, where tests on the impact on brain health are much less certain.

Bottom Line is I don't see any way this ends up any other way than bad.  If a political party wanted to do a test run with pharmacy-distributed Cannabis oil, I would have totally backed that.  But I think this is going to be giant train wreck.
Point 1) For the time being. Their will be a point where it is being massed produced enough that even with taxes, the price will be comparable to what it is on the BM now. Most cannabis companies right now are gearing up for just that, once they get a feel for the demand of the market.

2)Again, only until the point where it is being massed produced. That, and a firm police crackdown on dealers should deal with that problem. Growing pains.

3)I think most people will focus on the safe stuff once the price is right.

Other countries have gone down this root, other states. I haven't seen any train wrecks yet.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2018, 15:20:15 »
What is Scheers position on legal weed?

His party voted against it, would he try to limit it or repeal it?

If so, the conservatives are dead in the water. No way Canadians vote for a party taking away their legal bud.

If they were smart they would say "in this issue we would support whatever each Province wants" and will monitor effects on the ground and amend legislation if required.  Effectively passing the buck to the Provinces.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #54 on: June 21, 2018, 17:05:02 »
I think if we were smart then pot wouldn't be the main factor in who we pick to run our country.
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Offline Altair

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #55 on: June 21, 2018, 17:24:14 »
I think if we were smart then pot wouldn't be the main factor in who we pick to run our country.
That's silly.

If a teetotal was running for Prime Minister and said that they would ban alcohol you telling me that wouldn't sway your vote?
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2018, 17:50:36 »
I don't need alcohol to survive.  I'm partial to issues about foreign policy, immigration, taxes, ethics and spending when it comes to voting.

It says a lot about our enlightened youth when pot is their biggest concern.
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Offline Altair

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2018, 18:00:01 »
I don't need alcohol to survive.  I'm partial to issues about foreign policy, immigration, taxes, ethics and spending when it comes to voting.

It says a lot about our enlightened youth when pot is their biggest concern.
Not having a criminal record matters a lot to some people.
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Offline ModlrMike

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2018, 18:52:21 »
Not having a criminal record matters a lot to some people.

That could have happened with decriminalization. This is about taxation period. If it was truly about harm reduction, and reducing the social burden, then that's what the conversation would be about. It's not - the government has almost excursively focused on tax.
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Offline Altair

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2018, 18:57:59 »
That could have happened with decriminalization. This is about taxation period. If it was truly about harm reduction, and reducing the social burden, then that's what the conversation would be about. It's not - the government has almost excursively focused on tax.
What people want =/= what government focuses on.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2018, 23:13:18 »
That could have happened with decriminalization. This is about taxation period. If it was truly about harm reduction, and reducing the social burden, then that's what the conversation would be about. It's not - the government has almost excursively focused on tax.

The problem is actually worse than that. Instead of harm reduction, we do things like needle exchanges which essentially incentiveise the things we claim to want to reduce.

We look the other way and ignore what is actually harmful or deleterious to people's welfare. Stepping over addicts sleeping on the streets of Victoria while passing literally a dozen "Medicinal Marijuana" outlets (with badly painted hand made signs) on my way to visit my daughter in 2016 certainly drove the point home (I also remember seeing East Vancouver back in the late 80's, and my home town of London seems to have more and more visible addicts of all kinds roaming the streets as well).

Of course, as my wife points out, we have eliminated the ability to take these sorts of people off the streets and institutionalize them regardless of their problems or underlying issues (I believe a large number also suffer from mental health issues, which street drugs are hardly helping).
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2018, 23:18:49 »
Not having a criminal record matters a lot to some people.

Then they shouldn't break the law. Simples.  :nod:
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Offline Altair

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2018, 23:31:16 »
Then they shouldn't break the law. Simples.  :nod:
very simple.

And now they have voted for a party who legalized their vice of choice so they will no longer break the law.

All is good.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2018, 09:30:11 »
Yup. Everyone has priorities. Voting Liberal just because of pot is even less foresighted then voting Conservative just because of guns.

I'm not looking forward to the crying when the Liberal pot promise doesn't deliver exactly what people were expecting.

That said I'm curious how the US will spin this in their favor. Accusations of increased pot smuggling to the US I suspect at the least.
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2018, 09:55:50 »
Yup. Everyone has priorities. Voting Liberal just because of pot is even less foresighted then voting Conservative just because of guns.

I'm not looking forward to the crying when the Liberal pot promise doesn't deliver exactly what people were expecting.

That said I'm curious how the US will spin this in their favor. Accusations of increased pot smuggling to the US I suspect at the least.

I am curious about how many Canadians will suddenly scream bloody murder when they find they are no longer admissible to the US, once the USBP starts asking them about their (legal in Canada, but not the US) pot usage...

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2018, 10:10:00 »
I am curious about how many Canadians will suddenly scream bloody murder when they find they are no longer admissible to the US, once the USBP starts asking them about their (legal in Canada, but not the US) pot usage...

They could fly direct to Nevada (and eight other states) where it's legal, I suppose. :dunno:

Offline Remius

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2018, 11:17:05 »
I am curious about how many Canadians will suddenly scream bloody murder when they find they are no longer admissible to the US, once the USBP starts asking them about their (legal in Canada, but not the US) pot usage...

Depending on the numbers that might not be for long.  Many sectors and areas in the US enjoy Canadian spenders...

1 in 7 Canadians say they've used pot.  That number will rise.

There was 42 million visits in 2017.  6 million could be denied entry assuming pot users travel at the same frequency as the rest of the population.

If denying Canadians entry starts affect certain areas of the US economy you can bet that there will be some pressure to have exemptions and what not.

Mostly though I bet most people will just lie like they do now. 
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Offline ModlrMike

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2018, 11:20:05 »
It's not just the US. There are a number of other countries that have strict drugs use policies for travelers, such as Japan and Australia. Pot may become law, but it's the law of unintended consequences that needs to be paid attention to.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

Offline Remius

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2018, 11:28:55 »
It's not just the US. There are a number of other countries that have strict drugs use policies for travelers, such as Japan and Australia. Pot may become law, but it's the law of unintended consequences that needs to be paid attention to.

For sure.  But I doubt that Canada accounts for a third of their foreign tourist industry like the it does in the US.

Fun fact: Canadian visits to the US are up.
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Offline Altair

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2018, 11:34:42 »
Yup. Everyone has priorities. Voting Liberal just because of pot is even less foresighted then voting Conservative just because of guns.

I'm not looking forward to the crying when the Liberal pot promise doesn't deliver exactly what people were expecting.

That said I'm curious how the US will spin this in their favor. Accusations of increased pot smuggling to the US I suspect at the least.
Some wont like it, most will be happy to grow some at home or buy it legally, knowing what they are getting is safe and regulated.

And while I'm sure the Americans will try to spin it in some way, I hope Canadian officials simply ask them about Colorado.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/05/13/when-smuggling-colo-pot-not-even-skys-limit/83623226/

Quote
Gorman’s task force says investigators in 2014 made 360 seizures of Colorado marijuana destined for other states, a nearly 600% increase in the number of individual stops in a decade, seizing about 3,671 pounds in 2014. But those seizure reports are only from statewide agencies, not smaller police departments that also make seizures during traffic stops. Of the 360 seizures reported in 2014, 36 different states were identified as destinations, the most common being Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Oklahoma and Florida.
I am curious about how many Canadians will suddenly scream bloody murder when they find they are no longer admissible to the US, once the USBP starts asking them about their (legal in Canada, but not the US) pot usage...
I imagine people will do the same as now, simply say they don't do it.

I'm not sure why a bunch of things are going to change now that pot is legal.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2018, 13:01:57 »


Fun fact: Canadian visits to the US are up.
That doesn't make sense, the US is such a horrible place. And what about #BoycottUSA?


And while I'm sure the Americans will try to spin it in some way, I hope Canadian officials simply ask them about Colorado.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/05/13/when-smuggling-colo-pot-not-even-skys-limit/83623226/

Article is a good example. When our government brags (as they're apt to do) about decriminalizing pot or whatever, maybe the US will respond by deciding to beef up border security and give Canadians extra screening.
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Offline Remius

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2018, 13:23:59 »
That doesn't make sense, the US is such a horrible place. And what about #BoycottUSA?
Article is a good example. When our government brags (as they're apt to do) about decriminalizing pot or whatever, maybe the US will respond by deciding to beef up border security and give Canadians extra screening.

Well Canadian visits are up but not enough to offset the drastic drop in other foreign visits.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandratalty/2017/10/12/us-economy-losing-billions-as-trump-slump-continues-in-tourism-sector/#49832a211869

Also note that this data is from 2017.  It will be interesting to see how this latest spat affects tourism. Note: this is only anecdotal but three older couples in my family who made Florida their winter home the last few years have opted for the Dominican next year.
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Offline Altair

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2018, 13:27:24 »
That doesn't make sense, the US is such a horrible place. And what about #BoycottUSA?
Article is a good example. When our government brags (as they're apt to do) about decriminalizing pot or whatever, maybe the US will respond by deciding to beef up border security and give Canadians extra screening.
Boycott USA will be seen in a month or two.

As for extra screening, sure, they might, but again, people simply stick to the line that they don't use pot and all is ok.

People are being asked about pot right now and it's not legal, so I really don't see why that changes.
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Offline Remius

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Offline Colin P

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Re: US vs Canada
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2018, 13:33:35 »
I respect the people who went the route to get pot legalized. I still think they utterly stupid for using it, but I support their right to be stupid. I suspect that it will lead to legal issues for people traveling internationally and I will also enjoy the wailing about "Big Pot" in 15 years or so. Not to mention smirking as the ex-undergrounders try to open for business and discover the joys of dealing with Bylaw Officers who will make dealing with the cops look like the "good old days" when cops turned a blind eye.