Author Topic: The US Presidency 2018  (Read 91844 times)

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Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #700 on: December 20, 2018, 09:32:32 »

So Donald Trump wants to withdraw all troops from Syria.

Fox news op ed piece on why that is a bad idea.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/in-syria-trump-must-avoid-following-the-obama-model-why-pull-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory

Other sources are also stating that the decision raises eyebrows in regards to his relationship with Russia, which happens to praise the decision.

 
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #701 on: December 20, 2018, 09:41:36 »
Trump: "We have defeated ISIS in Syria"  [National Post]

Syrian Observatory: "Islamic State Kills 700 Prisoners In East Syria" [Counter Extremism Project]


 I guess ISIS wasn't on the memo's distribution list.   :not-again:

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #702 on: December 20, 2018, 13:16:40 »
Wonder if they kept this then?   :whistle:

Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #703 on: December 20, 2018, 15:06:35 »
So apparently Trump passed some kind of gun control?

Lots of talk about more gun control being passed in the 2 years of Trump in the hot seat than in the 8 years Obama was in.

Half of Trump's supporters are probably saying whoa wait a minute wtf while the  other half are playing down whatever was passed.

Meanwhile the left is probably too busy looking for songs and statues to be outraged about to notice. But when they do, think they'll have a hard time coming to terms with Trump doing something they've been asking for?  Gonna be lots of confusion there.
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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #704 on: December 20, 2018, 15:10:34 »
Trump: "We have defeated ISIS in Syria"  [National Post]

Syrian Observatory: "Islamic State Kills 700 Prisoners In East Syria" [Counter Extremism Project]


 I guess ISIS wasn't on the memo's distribution list.   :not-again:

To be fair, claiming victory and leaving is a pretty well established presidential tactic, is it not?
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #705 on: December 20, 2018, 15:25:07 »
So apparently Trump passed some kind of gun control?

Lots of talk about more gun control being passed in the 2 years of Trump in the hot seat than in the 8 years Obama was in.

Half of Trump's supporters are probably saying whoa wait a minute wtf while the  other half are playing down whatever was passed.

Meanwhile the left is probably too busy looking for songs and statues to be outraged about to notice. But when they do, think they'll have a hard time coming to terms with Trump doing something they've been asking for?  Gonna be lots of confusion there.

It is just bump stocks.  From the WAPO (and hence probably incorrect given that they are Fake News)  ::)

Quote
The Justice Department issued a regulation Tuesday banning bump-fire stocks, devices that can essentially transform semiautomatic weapons, such as an AR-15, into automatic rifles that fire at a rate of between 400 and 800 rounds per minute. These devices can inflict absolute carnage, as they did in October 2017, when a gunman killed 58 people at a concert in Las Vegas.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #706 on: December 20, 2018, 15:27:25 »
So apparently Trump passed some kind of gun control?

Lots of talk about more gun control being passed in the 2 years of Trump in the hot seat than in the 8 years Obama was in.

Half of Trump's supporters are probably saying whoa wait a minute wtf while the  other half are playing down whatever was passed.

Meanwhile the left is probably too busy looking for songs and statues to be outraged about to notice. But when they do, think they'll have a hard time coming to terms with Trump doing something they've been asking for?  Gonna be lots of confusion there.

What PPCLI Guy said.  From Reddit and other social media, the comments are hilarious - does 2A apply to parts of arms as well?   :whistle:
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #707 on: December 20, 2018, 19:08:39 »
Quote
U.S. defence secretary announces resignation one day after Trump announces withdrawal of troops from Syria

President needs minister whose views are 'are better aligned with yours,' Mattis says

U.S. Defence Secretary James Mattis, a stabilizing force in President Donald Trump's cabinet, abruptly announced his resignation on Thursday and said Trump should pick a successor whose views align more with his own.

Mattis resigned one day after Trump announced that U.S. troops in Syria would be withdrawn, a decision that upended American policy in the region, and on the same day that officials said the president was considering a substantial U.S. pullout from the long-running conflict in Afghanistan.

"Because you have a right to a secretary of defence whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position," Mattis said in his resignation letter, released by the Pentagon.

. . .

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-mattis-leaving-1.4955095

So. Who had 24 hours in the pool for how long it would take Mattis to resign?

Edited to add his resignation letter:

Quote
Dear Mr. President:

I have been privileged to serve as our country's 26th Secretary of Defense which has allowed me to serve alongside our men and women of the Department in defense of our citizens and our ideals.

I am proud of the progress that has been made over the past two years on some of the key goals articulated in our National Defense Strategy: putting the Department on a more sound budgetary footing, improving readiness and lethality in our forces, and reforming the Department's business practices for greater performance. Our troops continue to provide the capabilities needed to prevail in conflict and sustain strong U.S. global influence.

One core belief I have always held is that our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships. While the US remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or serve that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies. Like you, I have said from the beginning that the armed forces of the United States should not be the policeman of the world. Instead, we must use all tools of American power to provide for the common defense, including providing effective leadership to our alliances. NATO's 29 democracies demonstrated that strength in their commitment to fighting alongside us following the 9-11 attack on America. The Defeat-ISIS coalition of 74 nations is further proof.

Similarly, I believe we must be resolute and unambiguous in our approach to those countries whose strategic interests are increasingly in tension with ours. It is clear that China and Russia, for example, want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian model - gaining veto authority over other nations' economic, diplomatic, and security decisions - to promote their own interests at the expense of their neighbors, America and our allies. That is why we must use all the tools of American power to provide for the common defense.

My views on treating allies with respect and also being clear-eyed about both malign actors and strategic competitors are strongly held and informed by over four decades of immersion in these issues. We must do everything possible to advance an international order that is most conducive to our security, prosperity and values, and we are strengthened in this effort by the solidarity of our alliances.

Because you have the right to have a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position. The end date for my tenure is February 28, 2019, a date that should allow sufficient time for a successor to be nominated and confirmed as well as to make sure the Department's interests are properly articulated and protected at upcoming events to include Congressional posture hearings and the NATO Defense Ministerial meeting in February. Further, that a full transition to a new Secretary of Defense occurs well in advance of the transition of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in September in order to ensure stability Within the Department.

I pledge my full effort to a smooth transition that ensures the needs and interests of the 2.15 million Service Members and 732,079 DoD civilians receive undistracted attention of the Department at all times so that they can fulfill their critical, round-the-clock mission to protect the American people.

I very much appreciate this opportunity to serve the nation and our men and women in uniform.

 :subbies:
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 19:22:57 by FJAG »
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Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #708 on: December 20, 2018, 21:12:39 »
What a mess.

If anyone thought the US is abdicating it’s role as leader of the free world this certainly confirms it.

How is anyone ever going to get on board with the US ever again for anything.  Kurds, coalition allies etc etc. 
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #709 on: December 20, 2018, 21:30:45 »
Trump: "We have defeated ISIS in Syria"  [National Post]
Trump (continued):  "Russia, Iran, Syria & many others are not happy about the U.S. leaving, despite what the Fake News says, because now they will have to fight ISIS and others, who they hate, without us."
To be fair, claiming victory and leaving is a pretty well established presidential tactic, is it not?
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #710 on: December 21, 2018, 07:03:44 »
What a mess.

If anyone thought the US is abdicating it’s role as leader of the free world this certainly confirms it.

How is anyone ever going to get on board with the US ever again for anything.  Kurds, coalition allies etc etc.

I was thinking the same thing.

Isn't this what so many people wanted? American and other? 
The US to stop acting like the world police. Looks like they're getting what they asked for.

The US has Afghanistan fatigue, Iraq fatigue, let's say Middle East fatigue. It appears like the US is pulling back from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc.   Good?
Will this be another instance of hyprocracy and the same people calling for no US world peace will now lament about leaving our allies behind and ISIS exploding again? ISIS-K is already picking up speed.


Leaving allies behind. Yup. South Vietnamese and northern Iraq kurds come to mind. I don't agree or support that but it's not like there isn't a pattern already so no one should be surprised.




« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 07:11:10 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #711 on: December 21, 2018, 08:04:03 »
I was thinking the same thing.

Isn't this what so many people wanted? American and other? 
The US to stop acting like the world police. Looks like they're getting what they asked for.

The US has Afghanistan fatigue, Iraq fatigue, let's say Middle East fatigue. It appears like the US is pulling back from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc.   Good?
Will this be another instance of hyprocracy and the same people calling for no US world peace will now lament about leaving our allies behind and ISIS exploding again? ISIS-K is already picking up speed.


Leaving allies behind. Yup. South Vietnamese and northern Iraq kurds come to mind. I don't agree or support that but it's not like there isn't a pattern already so no one should be surprised.

I think though, it is the way it was done.  No consultation, no warning no discussion.  It is no wonder Mattis resigned. 

All the adults in the room have left.
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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #712 on: December 21, 2018, 08:11:56 »
I was thinking the same thing.

Isn't this what so many people wanted? American and other? 
The US to stop acting like the world police. Looks like they're getting what they asked for.

The US has Afghanistan fatigue, Iraq fatigue, let's say Middle East fatigue. It appears like the US is pulling back from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc.   Good?
Will this be another instance of hyprocracy and the same people calling for no US world peace will now lament about leaving our allies behind and ISIS exploding again? ISIS-K is already picking up speed.


Leaving allies behind. Yup. South Vietnamese and northern Iraq kurds come to mind. I don't agree or support that but it's not like there isn't a pattern already so no one should be surprised.

As long as the Americans are ready for the associated loss of prestige and influence that comes with it.

None of the US actions of the past 70 years were fully out of the goods of their hearts. Calculations on the effect on their prestige and subsequent influence were always key. As Mattis himself said, if you're going to defund the state department you better buy more bullets.

Abandoning the Kurds and US allies there will be a huge hit on US prestige in the region.

Offline Colin P

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #713 on: December 21, 2018, 12:32:29 »
What PPCLI Guy said.  From Reddit and other social media, the comments are hilarious - does 2A apply to parts of arms as well?   :whistle:
There is already a legal action against the move. The thing is that if you allow them narrow the regs, then it's sets a precedent for new regs. It's a bit like taking a loaf of bread one slice at a time. The gun control crowd intends to take the whole loaf at some point. The 2A's believe what the gun control types say so fight the taking of even a crumb, because each victory for the other side makes them hungry for more.

Offline boot12

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #714 on: December 21, 2018, 13:28:52 »
Multiple sources familiar with the event claiming that Trump's decision re: Syria came out of an off-the-cuff agreement during a phone call with Erdogan, against the advice of all of his advisors:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-21/urgent-trump-call-with-turkish-leader-led-to-us-pullout-from-syria?utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business

Quote
Trump Made Syria Decision Without National Security Team, Allies, Officials Say

Washington (AP) -- President Donald Trump's decision to withdraw American troops from Syria was made hastily, without consulting his national security team or allies, and over strong objections from virtually everyone involved in the fight against the Islamic State group, according to U.S. and Turkish officials.

Trump stunned his Cabinet, lawmakers and much of the world with the move by rejecting the advice of his top aides and agreeing to a withdrawal in a phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan last week, two U.S. officials and a Turkish official briefed on the matter told The Associated Press.

The Dec. 14 call, described by officials who were not authorized to discuss the decision-making process publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, provides insight into a consequential Trump decision that prompted the resignation of widely respected Defense Secretary Jim Mattis. It also set off a frantic, four-day scramble to convince the president either to reverse or delay the decision.

...

The Dec. 14 call came a day after Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu agreed to have the two presidents discuss Erdogan's threats to launch a military operation against U.S.-backed Kurdish rebels in northeast Syria, where American forces are based. The NSC then set up the call.

Pompeo, Mattis and other members of the national security team prepared a list of talking points for Trump to tell Erdogan to back off, the officials said.

But the officials said Trump, who had previously accepted such advice and convinced the Turkish leader not to attack the Kurds and put U.S. troops at risk, ignored the script. Instead, the president sided with Erdogan.

In the following days, Trump remained unmoved by those scrambling to convince him to reverse or at least delay the decision to give the military and Kurdish forces time to prepare for an orderly withdrawal.


"The talking points were very firm," said one of the officials, explaining that Trump was advised to clearly oppose a Turkish incursion into northern Syria and suggest the U.S. and Turkey work together to address security concerns. "Everybody said push back and try to offer (Turkey) something that's a small win, possibly holding territory on the border, something like that."

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #715 on: December 21, 2018, 14:59:40 »



I think though, it is the way it was done.  No consultation, no warning no discussion.  It is no wonder Mattis resigned. 

All the adults in the room have left.

That could very well be it.  No matter what he chose he was going to get negative reactions.

Immediate pull out and he's abandoning allies.
Pull out in the next 2-5 years and he's dragging his feet and American soldiers will needlessly due for nothing.
Decide there's no timeline to withdraw, he doesn't have a plan and the US is wasting time there for no reason.

But ya not listening to advisors would definitely piss them off.  Just a thought though, how effective are those advisors?  Iraq and Afghanistan aren't exactly bastions of democracy, safe from terrorism.  Hasn't the US tried all kinds of different strategies there?

Maybe there is some kind of wisdom to taking a different approach-basically saying frig this were going home.
(for the record I think it's a bad decision and we're going to see violent radical extreamisim explode in the vaccum left by the US stepping back from their world police behavior)




As long as the Americans are ready for the associated loss of prestige and influence that comes with it.

Definitely. I think it's going to hurt the US economically too. They pump a lot of money into all the small crap that people don't consider. KBR has 20'000 employees and over 4 billion in yearly revenue.

Quote

None of the US actions of the past 70 years were fully out of the goods of their hearts.

Like us in Mali, but ya.



Edited again to remove fake news meme :)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 06:23:52 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #716 on: December 21, 2018, 23:07:24 »
It took me a few minutes to dig some stuff up.  That meme photo is doctored.

Max Boot wrote this back in April: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/04/19/trump-thinks-we-can-replace-u-s-forces-in-syria-with-arab-troops-hes-wrong/?utm_term=.a4573b405f7c

I looked for the article that pic shows and can’t find it.  Closest one is from Dec 7th.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/07/trump-cant-do-anything-right-even-his-coverups-are-incompetent/?utm_term=.a269bd3b0108

I get your point but the meme is not real nor is it substantiated.  fake news as it were. likely one of many found on Facebook or reddit maybe.

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #717 on: December 22, 2018, 06:23:07 »
It took me a few minutes to dig some stuff up.  That meme photo is doctored.



Good find dude thanks.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #718 on: December 22, 2018, 12:18:36 »
Interesting hypothesis.

Quote
Blackwater USA took out a full page ad in the January/February 2019 issue of "Recoil" magazine with the company's logo and a message: "We are coming."

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/12/21/mattis-is-out-and-blackwater-is-back-we-are-coming/


Maybe Trump will further privatize war.
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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #719 on: December 22, 2018, 18:21:21 »

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #720 on: January 01, 2019, 11:52:57 »
Happy New Year!!!!  :subbies: