Author Topic: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax  (Read 20053 times)

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2017, 20:20:45 »
... How many 'Indigenous' Members of Parliament and Senators have we seen over the years?  Quite a few. Elijah Harper played a prominent role as a Member of Parliament.
Yup on both, for sure, but on the bit in orange, his most prominent role (like it or not) was his voting against the Meech Lake Accord as a Manitoba legislator, just before he was an MP.
... I have never seen a 'Black' Mi'kmaw before ...
I see lots of Cree & Ojibway in northern Ontario who look like what one might expect Aboriginals look like, but I've also seen First Nation folks here and in southern Ontario who look lighter than olive-skinned me.  Drive into Minnesota, and (because of the history of the area), some are even fairer with Scandanavian family names.  It's almost like saying what an Italian looks like - depends on where they're from & what the history of the area is.
... Anyone here ever heard that the old Canadian flag ... is considered the "equivalent to the Confederate flag? I've never heard that before ...
First I've heard of that specific comparison, too.  That said, based on the narrative of "we've been screwed over by the old bosses over the years" (more on that in this book - links to Amazon), one interpretation of that narrative is that a flag from those older days could be seen to represent the old bosses and their screwing over.  Your read/mileage may vary ...
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2017, 20:21:36 »
I'm not sure 129 is a valid option here as I don't fully see the military nexus. That being said, Remedial Measures are absolutely the way to go.

Hmmmm, I'm thinking that the pics screen-capped from their facebook pages prior to them battening down their hatches wearing that alt-right hate group shirt may cause them to have some serious explaining to do.  Belonging to such groups is a sound "nada" for serving members.

Having visited this groups web-site this morning, all I can say is ugggghhhh.

Oh - and they also made the alt-right group's main webpage --- they seem quite pleased to see these five out "representing" in their polo shirts.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 20:27:08 by ArmyVern »
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 20:25:30 »
The CTV news coverage about the RCN members involved in the protest disruption, with MND's comments.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/this-is-a-british-colony-group-disrupts-mi-kmaq-ceremony-in-halifax-1.3487246

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 20:35:14 »
Having visited this groups web-site this morning, all I can say is ugggghhhh.

So much wrong with that blog; bordering on hate speech.  It is inciting others to take action against these five persons.  It is slanderous.  It fringes on invasion of privacy.

[Edit:  This is the blog I was referring to:  http://anti-racistcanada.blogspot.ca/2017/07/military-proud-boys-disrupt-mikmaw.html ]
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 21:29:42 by George Wallace »
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 20:39:51 »
So much wrong with that blog; bordering on hate speech.  It is inciting others to take action against these five persons.  It is slanderous.  It fringes on invasion of privacy.

I'm talking about the hate group's website ... they are pretty proud of their 5 proud boys representing in  their colours.

Both sides are wrong here, but it doesn't excuse these five as possibly serving CAF members.  NDA is only applicable to them (if serving, if RegF).
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 20:42:55 by ArmyVern »
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2017, 20:41:21 »
So much wrong with that blog; bordering on hate speech.  It is inciting others to take action against these five persons.  It is slanderous.  It fringes on invasion of privacy.


No one seems to care about that George, they're out for blood. If the protesters were burning a Canadian Flag and the five members did the same thing, no one would be saying anything. I also noticed the protestors are using the publicity of this to garner donations. ::)
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2017, 20:43:57 »
I've been looking up Proud Boys. There is no consensus out there. Far left call them alt-right, others say they are centrist on western values and it goes on and on. Nobody is quite sure of what they are. They are an enigma, per se.

I don't think their site is anything special. It's not full of hate speech and confederate banter. They appear to have members of most ethnic and political stripes.

They are right of centre, but the site appears only to counter the bullshit from the left.

They certainly appear NOT to be an alt-right hate group.

A fraternal organisation based on western values (as they see them). There is nothing wrong with that.

Let's remember who controls the MSM and pushes the leftist agenda, that is pigeon holing the group, before we clamour over ourselves to be first in line to condemn them.

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2017, 20:45:30 »

No one seems to care about that George, they're out for blood. If the protesters were burning a Canadian Flag and the five members did the same thing, no one would be saying anything. I also noticed the protestors are using the publicity of this to garner donations. ::)

Difference is that one group is not subject to the provisions of the NDA while others within the group of 5 may be. The NDA-liable folk don't get a walk or a bye because both groups happen to be moronic idiots.
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2017, 20:47:08 »
I'm talking about the hate group's blog ... they are pretty proud of their 5 proud boys representing.

I don't usually even venture into, on, around sites like that...ever.  I don't want them in my History or them to have my IP, that kinda stuff.  I've never heard of this group Proud Boys before...however, watching the majority of the 8 minute video that is on the web about this, the female with the glasses was the one I felt was being the most...ignorant, racist-leaning talker, whatever the right term is.

I don't know about Proud Boys and all that stupid kind of stuff, I stay away from that crap.  I don't agree with protestors, of any kind, for any reason, telling other Canadians they can't go here or there, you have to be quiet, get rid of your flag, etc because it is the opposite of their message.  Something about double standards...

If the citizens protesting the treatment of natives from XXX years ago have the freedom of association, peaceful protest, speech etc then everyone else should have it, too.  Serving members included.

I was also not ******' impressed to see an upside down Canadian flag with writing or drawing or whatever was on it.  I think you're asking for trouble when you do stupid crap like that, and I don't care one rats *** what the reason is. 
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2017, 21:15:17 »
... Serving members included ...

Yet, you know that is not the case.  We are expected to hold, and are held, to a higher standard.
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2017, 21:17:22 »
Difference is that one group is not subject to the provisions of the NDA while others within the group of 5 may be. The NDA-liable folk don't get a walk or a bye because both groups happen to be moronic idiots.

True, it was stupid. If I was walking by and saw the Canada flag being burned or in this case it was being flown upside down, I may of intervened and been stupid as well. From the video footage I have seen there were more words being thrown on the protest side then on the other, still they were in the wrong and must reap the consequences.
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2017, 21:21:55 »
True, it was stupid. If I was walking by and saw the Canada flag being burned or in this case it was being flown upside down, I may of intervened and been stupid as well. From the video footage I have seen there were more words being thrown on the protest side then on the other, still they were in the wrong and must reap the consequences.

I think it's the hate group bit that's the difference between you and them and  the bit that will eventually cause the greatest fallout from this.  Many of us who serve would be pissed to see disrespect to the Flag we serve under and would really think about intervening.  But, thank frig, I don't think many of us - ideally none of us - would belong to hate groups either.
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2017, 21:23:59 »
Yet, you know that is not the case.  We are expected to hold, and are held, to a higher standard.

According to the Charter, that is the case.  Mark my words...someone, sooner or later, will challenge this is a court (CAF rules contrary to the Charter) and they'll win.  Why should my rights and freedoms be less than any other citizen? 

*I don't agree with racist crap and association with racist crap groups...that's not my argument. 
The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2017, 21:28:07 »
According to the Charter, that is the case.  Mark my words...someone, sooner or later, will challenge this is a court (CAF rules contrary to the Charter) and they'll win.  Why should my rights and freedoms be less than any other citizen? 

*I don't agree with racist crap and association with racist crap groups...that's not my argument.

And yet the Supreme Court continues to rule that the NDA is acceptable as it applies to CAF members and our "unique" requirements of service when Charter Challenges have been brought before it.
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2017, 21:41:24 »
And yet the Supreme Court continues to rule that the NDA is acceptable as it applies to CAF members and our "unique" requirements of service when Charter Challenges have been brought before it.

If they are CAF members, what they did was very stupid and they should be charged.

"Pour encourager les autres"

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2017, 21:44:53 »
Proud Boys are a hate group simply because that's what the lefties and the press are calling them. Please stop reinforcing the false narrative.

Unfortunately, it is not illegal to desecrate the Canadian flag. If you get into a physical altercation with the idiot with the match, you run the chance of being charged. Don't expect the CoC to have any sympathy for being patriotic. Years ago, there was a fellow in a bar that was talking down the military including a certain Regiment I was with. I took his glasses off, put them in his pocket and drove him in the face. That was it. One punch. When the RSM marched me into the old man, I was asked why I did it. Straight out told him the guy was insulting the CAF and Regiment. That just seemed to make matters worse with the boss. That was back in the '70's. The CoC is much more CYA than it was then. If they have to hang a few sailors to save themselves, they will.
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2017, 21:47:04 »
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is designed to limit the government's powers. It guarantees that the *government* will not infringe upon your freedom of speech / expression etc... in other words, creating a law that could put you in jail for expressing yourself. It does *not* guarantee you against the social consequences of your actions.

These members, whether on duty or not, whether in uniform or not, whether they identified themselves as CAF members or not, conducted themselves in a manner that is below the standard of our profession. It's the same reason we put people on remedial measures for conduct when they commit a crime. Just like in the civilian world, this can have consequences.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/man-fired-over-fck-her-right-in-the-pssy-tv-confrontation/

Let's see, if one of these members were in the above article, would we be defending their "right" to go out and be and idiot? If it was one of my troops and they were identified as CAF members and it was on the news bringing the CAF into disrepute, I'd put them on a remedial measures in a heartbeat. Grievance? Go ahead. It's administrative law and there is video evidence of you doing said act. It's not hard to justify that this is below the standard expected of a CAF member conducting themselves outside of work. This is an easy win for the CoC.
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2017, 22:01:47 »
Proud Boys are a hate group simply because that's what the lefties and the press are calling them. Please stop reinforcing the false narrative.


Agreed.  One of the individuals identified himself as being Cree.  Metis was also brought up.  Labeling these guys as members of a "far-right ultra-nationalist group" is really grasping at straws. 

[Edit.....Lost connection and had to resubmit.]
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2017, 22:08:41 »
In the end these guys are mostly guilty of annoying/offending people who are professional crap disturbers.

I'm actually surprised they had as much restraint that I know I wouldn't of had seeing the protesters defacing the Canadian Flag, on Canada day no less. They claim the group of 5 'proud boys' were being inflammatory, intimidating, etc. To me what they did the flag is all of that and more.

If they(protesters) never went and DOX the 5 guys (which is illegal in Canada), this would of probably blown over. But again I go back to my point of them being  professional crap disturbers. 


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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2017, 22:13:29 »
And yet the Supreme Court continues to rule that the NDA is acceptable as it applies to CAF members and our "unique" requirements of service when Charter Challenges have been brought before it.

If this particular one has been challenged (freedom of speech, or association or peaceful assembly...whichever this would be...I am not a LawOp so...), I'd be very interested to read the ruling.  (Seriously)

Maybe FJAG will stumble into this one... 8)

I, for one, am getting tired of all the double-standard in this country lately, this one included.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 22:25:05 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2017, 22:17:42 »
Hydro One rehires man fired after FHRITP incident
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/hydro-one-rehires-man-fired-after-fhritp-incident-1.3300059

See also,

Harrasment in public..Hydro One fires "jerk" for reporter prank 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=119361.25
8 pages.

He may have been rehired while the arbitration was ongoing, he may have even won arbitration, but that doesn't mean he didn't face social consequences of his actions despite not facing *legal* consequences (which is what the Charter protects your from... which was my point).

Regardless, you can be held accountable by your employer for your off-duty conduct. This website amplifies and provides a list of real examples...

http://www.hrreporter.com/columnist/canadian-hr-law/archive/2015/05/19/whats-the-deal-with-off-duty-conduct/

Quote
A Toronto Symphony Orchestra performance by a Ukrainian-born pianist cancelled due to comments she made on Twitter regarding the conflict between Russia and Ukraine.
Two Toronto firefighters dismissed due to inappropriate comments and Twitter, and a third due to FaceBook comments.
Jian Ghomeshi, star radio host of our national broadcaster, fired due to harassment and sexual assault which came to light after his miscalculated FaceBook post.
An Ontario Hockey League referee suspended after posting insulting comments about the women of Sault Ste. Marie on Twitter.
Two Ontario Hockey League players also suspended due to offensive comments about women on Twitter.
Perhaps most offensive of all, an individual who wrote “Thank God the b*tch is dead” on a Facebook wall created in memory of a 15-year-old girl who committed suicide after years of bullying.

People often forget that "freedom of association" is also a right for a very good reason.

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2017, 22:36:51 »
I won't be surprised to hear these guys get hung, drawn and quartered by the system.  At any rate, they're in for a few one way conversations come tomorrow, no doubt.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.