Author Topic: Ukraine - Superthread  (Read 881759 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,470
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2150 on: September 06, 2017, 12:30:09 »
And in case one doesn't trust UKR media's take, this from the official RUS info-machine transcript of Putin's talk with media on Ukraine this week ...
Quote
... Question: I have a question about eastern Ukraine. Kiev has recently started promoting the idea of deploying UN peacekeepers there. Poroshenko speaks about this often, and there is even a plan according to which the idea should be taken to the UN General Assembly, which opens soon, if Russia blocks it at the Security Council. What do you think about this idea? Is it practicable, would it help?

Vladimir Putin: This is impossible to do via the General Assembly, because UN peacekeepers cannot function other than pursuant to Security Council resolutions. But that is not the point.

You are saying that someone wants to push something through. In fact, I do not see anything wrong with that. I have already said many times that I support the idea of arming the OSCE mission, but the OSCE itself refuses to arm its field personnel, since it has neither the relevant people nor the experience of such work.

In this context, I believe that the presence of UN peacekeepers, not even peacekeepers, but those who provide security for the OSCE mission, is quite appropriate and I do not see anything wrong with that; on the contrary, I believe that this would help resolve the situation in southeastern Ukraine. Of course, we can talk only about ensuring the security of the OSCE staff. This is my first point.

The second point is that, in this regard, these forces should be located on the demarcation line only and on no other territories.

Thirdly, this issue should be resolved only after disengaging the parties and removing the heavy equipment. This cannot be resolved without direct contact with representatives of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic.

I believe that if all this is done, it would definitely benefit resolving the situation in southeastern Ukraine. We will consider this as instructions to the Foreign Ministry to submit a relevant resolution to the Security Council.

Question: Continuing the theme of Ukraine. Recently, more reports have been coming from Washington regarding discussions to provide lethal weapons to Ukraine. How serious do you think this is? If, indeed, such a decision is made, what consequences might it have?

Vladimir Putin: It is the sovereign decision of the United States whom to sell arms to or whom to supply them to free of charge. They decide what countries will be recipients of such aid. We are unable to influence this process in any way. However, there are general international rules and approaches: the supply of weapons to a conflict zone is not conducive to peace, but only aggravates the situation.

If this happens in this situation, the action, or the decision, will not change the situation fundamentally. It will not affect the situation in any way for that matter. But the number of victims could, of course, increase. I want to underscore this to make it clear for everyone: nothing will change. The number of victims may increase, which is unfortunate.

There is one more thing that those who have such ideas should pay attention to: the self-proclaimed republics have enough weapons, including those seized from the opposing side, nationalist battalions, and so on.

If American weapons start coming to the conflict zone, it is difficult to say how the proclaimed republics would react to it. They may dispatch their weapons to other conflict zones that are sensitive to those who create problems for them ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,470
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2151 on: September 11, 2017, 15:17:04 »
A bit of movement on Putin's part re:  where U.N. peacekeepers should go in eastern Ukraine - this from the Kremlin info-machine ...
Quote
At the initiative of the German side, Vladimir Putin had a telephone conversation with Federal Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany Angela Merkel ... Vladimir Putin spoke in detail on the Russian initiative to establish a UN mission to aid the protection of the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (OSCE SMM). Taking into account the views communicated by Angela Merkel, the Russian leader expressed readiness to add to the functions of the above-mentioned UN mission proposed in the Russian draft resolution of the Security Council.

The protection of OSCE observers by the UN is envisioned not only on the contact line after the disengagement of the forces and equipment of both sides, but also in other places where the OSCE SMM conducts its inspection visits in accordance with the Minsk Package of Measures.
Full statement also attached in case link doesn't work.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,470
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2152 on: September 16, 2017, 12:33:36 »
UKR Prez's dropping by ...
Quote
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko during his visit to Canada on September 22 and September 23 could meet Canada’s leadership to discuss the role of the country in the negotiation process on settling the situation in Donbas, Ukrainian Ambassador to Canada Andriy Shevchenko has told Interfax-Ukraine.

“We are preparing for the president’s visit to Toronto. The president will come to support the Ukrainian team in the Invictus Games… We also hope that during the visit there would be an opportunity of holding official meetings with Canada’s leadership. We hope that the role of Canada in the negotiation process on settling the conflict with Russia and Canada’s support in our ambitions to move to NATO would be discussed,” ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,470
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2153 on: September 23, 2017, 04:21:56 »
Post-UKR-pres-PMJT statements, via the various info-machines - highlights mine in the following PMO info-machine statement...
Quote
Joint Statement by Prime Minister Trudeau and President Poroshenko
Toronto, Ontario
September 22, 2017


The Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, and the President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, meeting today on the margins of the Invictus Games in Toronto, in which Ukrainian servicemen and women are participating for the first time, affirmed strong and enduring ties between Canada and Ukraine and their joint commitment to the continued deepening of bilateral relations.

“This year, as we celebrate the 25th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between Canada and Ukraine, we reflect on the important milestones achieved since we last met in Kyiv in July 2016.

Expanding Economic Opportunities

“The entry into force of the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement (CUFTA) represents a historic moment in our bilateral relations. We are committed to working closely together to ensure that Canadians and Ukrainians alike can take advantage of the benefits of CUFTA as soon as possible.

“Through the implementation of this agreement, we are looking forward to boosting bilateral trade between Ukraine and Canada in agriculture, information technology, energy and aerospace. Under CUFTA’s two-year review clause, we will examine the possibility of extending CUFTA’s coverage to additional areas, such as services and investment.

Enhancing Security Cooperation

“Canada is unequivocal in its support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. Canada reiterates its non-recognition of Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea and continues to condemn Russian military aggression in Donbas. Canada is committed to maintaining pressure on Russia to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and to implement fully its Minsk commitments, including through ongoing sanctions.

“Operation UNIFIER supports the important military training and capacity building efforts undertaken by Ukraine to maintain its sovereignty and security, while fostering a mutually-beneficial learning environment for both Canadian and Ukrainian Armed Forces.

“Canada will continue to support Ukraine’s progress towards Euro-Atlantic integration and to adopt and implement NATO standards through its ambitious agenda of reforms. Canada values Ukraine’s commitment to its relationship with NATO and its significant contributions to Allied operations. Against the backdrop of shared security challenges, we reaffirm our common interest in international peace through our bilateral Defence Cooperation Arrangement (DCA) and our shared commitment to advancing Ukraine’s defence reform agenda. Canada supports Ukraine’s goal of achieving NATO interoperability by 2020, providing both tactical training and strategic advice.


Sharing Common Values

“Canada shares a strong bond with Ukraine, rooted in generations of Ukrainian migration to Canada. We look forward to building on our strong people-to-people ties, including through the promotion of youth mobility, to forge new bonds between our countries for generations to come.

“We recognize the strong progress made in Ukraine’s reform efforts and the launch of Agenda 2020, as well as Canada’s contribution to that progress. Sustained effort will be critical to ensuring durable institutional transformation, unblocking obstacles to reform and unlocking Ukraine’s full potential. We are guided in our efforts and in our outlook by our shared commitment to the values of inclusivity and respect for diversity.”
... and, from the Ukrainian side ...
Quote
President: We are really interested in the experience of Canada’s peacekeeping activities
23 September 2017 - 02:01

In the course of the negotiations with Prime Minister of Canada Justin Trudeau, President Petro Poroshenko presented Ukraine’s vision on how the two countries could level up their security and defense partnership with new initiatives.   

“Today I presented Ukraine’s vision on how we could level up our security and defense partnership with new initiatives,” Petro Poroshenko informed following the negotiations.

“Earlier this year, we signed the bilateral Defense Cooperation Arrangement, which facilitates our cooperation in the military sphere. Also this year, Canadian Government extended Operation UNIFIER, which provides for continued training by Canadian instructors of our Armed Forces,” the President noted.

“I believe that having such good basis, it is high time to move forward,” Petro Poroshenko said.

The President thanked the Prime Minister of Canada and the Canadian Government for a staunch and unwavering position in support of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity as we face the ongoing Russian aggression.

“Such principled position of our allies and partners, continued political and sanctions pressure, and such leadership on the international arena as shown by Canada is crucial for stopping the war waged by Moscow as it seeks to redraw Europe’s borders by force,” the Head of State emphasized.

According to Petro Poroshenko, with the G7 Presidency Canada could play even more important role in bringing peace and stability back to Ukraine and Europe. “We see the G7 platform also conducive to lead the efforts of an international group of friends of de-occupation of Crimea, I mentioned recently. I believe that Canada fits for that role very well, since Crimea is, first of all, about human rights and freedoms,” he stressed.   

The President also believes that diplomatic efforts should be underpinned with strong Ukraine’s defense and economic resilience.

In his turn, Justin Trudeau noted that there are mechanisms to fulfill common tasks answering the question about military assistance. “We will stand forever with Ukraine in the struggle against the illegal aggression of Russia. We fight against it,” the Prime Minister emphasized.

He reminded that Canada helps with the instructors who train the Ukrainian military and share their experience.
Quote
President: Ukraine and Canada can level up security and defense partnership
23 September 2017 - 01:19

In the course of the negotiations with Prime Minister of Canada Justin Trudeau, President Petro Poroshenko presented Ukraine’s vision on how the two countries could level up their security and defense partnership with new initiatives.   

“Today I presented Ukraine’s vision on how we could level up our security and defense partnership with new initiatives,” Petro Poroshenko informed following the negotiations.

“Earlier this year, we signed the bilateral Defense Cooperation Arrangement, which facilitates our cooperation in the military sphere. Also this year, Canadian Government extended Operation UNIFIER, which provides for continued training by Canadian instructors of our Armed Forces,” the President noted.

“I believe that having such good basis, it is high time to move forward,” Petro Poroshenko said.

The President thanked the Prime Minister of Canada and the Canadian Government for a staunch and unwavering position in support of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity as we face the ongoing Russian aggression.

“Such principled position of our allies and partners, continued political and sanctions pressure, and such leadership on the international arena as shown by Canada is crucial for stopping the war waged by Moscow as it seeks to redraw Europe’s borders by force,” the Head of State emphasized.

According to Petro Poroshenko, with the G7 Presidency Canada could play even more important role in bringing peace and stability back to Ukraine and Europe. “We see the G7 platform also conducive to lead the efforts of an international group of friends of de-occupation of Crimea, I mentioned recently. I believe that Canada fits for that role very well, since Crimea is, first of all, about human rights and freedoms,” he stressed.   

The President also believes that diplomatic efforts should be underpinned with strong Ukraine’s defense and economic resilience.

In his turn, Justin Trudeau noted that there are mechanisms to fulfill common tasks answering the question about military assistance. “We will stand forever with Ukraine in the struggle against the illegal aggression of Russia. We fight against it,” the Prime Minister emphasized.

He reminded that Canada helps with the instructors who train the Ukrainian military and share their experience.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,470
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2154 on: September 23, 2017, 04:58:04 »
A bit of movement on Putin's part re:  where U.N. peacekeepers should go in eastern Ukraine ...
... aaaaaand, back to the "why do you need peacekeepers between the Russian-Ukrainian border?"
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Online Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 120,160
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,591
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2155 on: September 23, 2017, 19:33:58 »

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,470
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2156 on: September 24, 2017, 07:32:31 »
Russian volunteer veterans get no love  https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-gore-no-glory-for-war-veterans/28681378.html
Well, if Russia says they don't have troops there (just "vacationing volunteers"), I guess the state's OK with letting these guys swing in the wind.  After all, who in the Duma's going object, right? #WatchYourTea

Meanwhile, MO' meetings for UKR's president in Canada (all via the UKR info-machine) ...
... as well as alleged commitments from earlier meetings this past week:
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 10:10:27 by milnews.ca »
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,470
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,470
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2158 on: September 29, 2017, 15:06:43 »
The diaspora speaks ...
Quote
Ukrainian Canadian community wants Canada to lead U.N. peacekeeping mission in Ukraine
By Christopher Guly / Special to The Ukrainian Weekly, 29 Sept 2017

The national president of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress (UCC) has called on Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to take the lead in a United Nations peacekeeping mission in eastern Ukraine.

Following a September 22 meeting with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in Toronto, Prime Minister Trudeau told reporters at a joint news conference with both leaders that a U.N. mission could ensure that “people are able to live their lives in peace and security in a way that upholds the principles of international law that, quite frankly, Russia violated with its illegitimate actions.”

But he did not commit Canadian troops to such an operation, which President Poroshenko has requested for the Donbas region since 2015.

The UCC not only wants Canadian peacekeepers in Ukraine, it hopes that Canada would direct the U.N. mission there.

“Canada has the experience and the history of peacekeeping and is best positioned to do this,” said UCC President Paul Grod, who raised the issue in a discussion with Prime Minister Trudeau and President Poroshenko following their meeting on the margins of the Invictus Games in Toronto, an international sporting competition for injured soldiers that both leaders attended.

Canadian involvement in U.N. peacekeeping missions is almost synonymous with the country’s identity, thanks in large part to a future Canadian prime minister, Lester B. Pearson, who won the Nobel Peace Prize for helping to resolve the Suez Crisis in 1956 through his idea of a peacekeeping force, which at the time also involved Canadian troops.

That history, along with today’s geopolitical reality, makes Canada better suited to lead a U.N. mission in Ukraine than the United States, France or Germany, said Mr. Grod.

“The Trump administration is very unpredictable in terms of where it’s going to be positioned vis-à-vis Russia, Ukraine and the rest of Europe, and is not in the best position to bring together a coordinated effort by the international community,” he said in an interview.

“France has the drive and the interest to move this forward, but I think Ukraine is probably pretty low on the foreign-policy list for the French.”

Mr. Grod explained that Germany will be preoccupied with domestic issues in at least the short term following the recent German election that has left re-elected Chancellor Angela Merkel scrambling to assemble a coalition to govern in light of a historic showing by the right-wing Alternative for Germany party.

“When you look at the other nations that could potentially take the lead on a U.N. peacekeeping mission, Canada – politically – is the most stable, has support for Ukraine from all political parties in Canada, and has the opportunity to bring peace to Ukraine,” Mr. Grod said ...
More @ link
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 204,875
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,695
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2159 on: September 29, 2017, 20:09:34 »
How do you lead a peacekeeping mission when you have been one of the outspoken sabre-rattlers for one of the belligerent faction?

Offline Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 512,795
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,493
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2160 on: September 30, 2017, 08:58:18 »
A couple of conflictinG options have been proposed; an overview is provided here

Edit:  typo
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 12:24:43 by Journeyman »

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,470
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2161 on: September 30, 2017, 12:08:17 »
How do you lead a peacekeeping mission when you have been one of the outspoken sabre-rattlers for one of the belligerent faction?
I guess it makes as much sense as putting the peacekeepers between the rebels and Ukraine instead of between Ukraine and Russia.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Kat Stevens

    Quando omni flunkus moritati.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 212,470
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,538
  • that's how we roll in redneck land
Re: Ukraine - Superthread
« Reply #2162 on: September 30, 2017, 13:36:29 »
How do you lead a peacekeeping mission when you have been one of the outspoken sabre-rattlers for one of the belligerent faction?

We were two months into OP HARMONY Roto 0, when His Most Regal Stupidness PM Mulroney declared loudly and proudly that the Serbs were the bad guys of record. We were in Serbian held Vukovar at the time, and the vibe there became very hostile, very quickly.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats