What does a 2IC REALLY do?

[ARMY_101]

This is a question I've been thinking about, and even with PLQ I don't feel I can provide a sound doctrine-based answer.

In combat situations (e.g. a section attack) we know what the 2IC does: keep the section in line, take over for the IC when needed, control Assault Group 2, ammo cas during the consolidation, etc.

But what about non-combat situations, especially for the vast majority of the Forces not working within the combat arms?  What does a 2IC do?  What does an Orderly Room 2IC do? Or a Med Tech 2IC? Or a Veh Tech 2IC? Following the combat arms-style 2IC, are they the "mother" of those they supervise: tracking appointments, making sure everyone's fitness is up to date, etc? Are they more of an advisor to the next rank up?

Are there different 2IC responsibilities in the normal work setting as opposed to the combat arms field setting?

I can't find any doctrine that says "2IC does this, Section Commander does this, etc." Instead, it seems that most positions/appointments are defined by that position's predecessor(s). So if the old 2IC tracked leave, then the new 2IC should track leave too. Alternatively, each unit can define their expectations of their 2ICs, but this leads to varying standards between units.

It strikes me that there should be some formal Terms of Reference for each position and trade, beyond their combat role.

Thoughts?

 

[Towards_the_gap]

This is a question I've been thinking about, and even with PLQ I don't feel I can provide a sound doctrine-based answer.

In combat situations (e.g. a section attack) we know what the 2IC does: keep the section in line, take over for the IC when needed, control Assault Group 2, ammo cas during the consolidation, etc.

But what about non-combat situations, especially for the vast majority of the Forces not working within the combat arms?  What does a 2IC do?  What does an Orderly Room 2IC do? Or a Med Tech 2IC? Or a Veh Tech 2IC? Following the combat arms-style 2IC, are they the "mother" of those they supervise: tracking appointments, making sure everyone's fitness is up to date, etc? Are they more of an advisor to the next rank up?

Are there different 2IC responsibilities in the normal work setting as opposed to the combat arms field setting?

I can't find any doctrine that says "2IC does this, Section Commander does this, etc." Instead, it seems that most positions/appointments are defined by that position's predecessor(s). So if the old 2IC tracked leave, then the new 2IC should track leave too. Alternatively, each unit can define their expectations of their 2ICs, but this leads to varying standards between units.

It strikes me that there should be some formal Terms of Reference for each position and trade, beyond their combat role.

Thoughts?

There are formal 'Terms of Reference' for each position and trade, beyond the combat role - it's called PDR Part I. It spells out what is expected of you. Is it completely different for each trade and unit? Absolutely. Surely you've signed one before?

If we made a cookie-cutter 2IC job description we'd all have jack boots and funny looking helmets. Hitler was a 2IC (Lance Corporal).....Hmm.

But I digress, if you are really fretting over this, you could really bend the envelope, think outside the box, and...... ask someone in your chain of command. I'm thinking your own 2IC/Section commander. They will likely give you the same answer I will give you - Act as the IC in their absence, and do what the IC and Pl 2IC tell them to. Simples.

 

[ARMY_101]

There are formal 'Terms of Reference' for each position and trade, beyond the combat role - it's called PDR Part I. It spells out what is expected of you.

ask someone in your chain of command.

Unfortunately both of these suggestions are in-house answers. Who controls the PDR part one? The unit. I was looking for a higher-level definition.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

For a position that is so widely varied from unit to unit as to the duties and responsibilities in a garrison setting, why wouldn't a Part I PDR suffice? What do you think should be in place in stead?

 

[Shamrock]

Unfortunately both of these suggestions are in-house answers. Who controls the PDR part one? The unit. I was looking for a higher-level definition.

Have you checked the OS?  That should have a list of tasks.

 

[CombatDoc]

Unfortunately both of these suggestions are in-house answers. Who controls the PDR part one? The unit. I was looking for a higher-level definition.

You're not likely to get a higher level definition, since your question is too generic. While you seem to be using the term 2IC at the section level, 2IC's exist all the way up the chain of command.  For example, 2IC at the Battalion level is the DCO, 2IC of the Army is the Deputy Commander, etc.  Their job is to support their boss to accomplish the assigned mission, as others have already noted.  AFAIK, this is not part of "doctrine" but perhaps some of the staff college graduates will provide further insight.

 

[daftandbarmy]

LCpl Bannister should give you a good idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciFnTiacaDU

 

[ARMY_101]

For a position that is so widely varied from unit to unit as to the duties and responsibilities in a garrison setting, why wouldn't a Part I PDR suffice? What do you think should be in place in stead?

There's already doctrine in place that establishes that a unit shall have a CO, an RSM, a Platoon 2IC, etc. Why can't that be expanded to say a CO does this; an RSM does this; a Platoon 2IC does this; and so on?

 

[GnyHwy]

Unfortunately both of these suggestions are in-house answers. Who controls the PDR part one? The unit. I was looking for a higher-level definition.

The Pt 1 PDR for all 2ICs no matter what your job should be consistent throughout your corps.  If it is not than someone isn't dong it right.  If it is not, they would have no baseline to compare you against your peers.  I would reason that all 2IC PDRs up to and including 2IC of the unit i.e. Bn, would be consistent throughout your corps.

Once above Bn, there are not that many of them anyway, and certain reasons whether operational or strategic would make them unique.

It is only when you get certain extra regimental positions that it becomes confusing.  How do you compare a Sgt in St. Jean who may be a 2IC of a plt looking after 100 newbs, to a Sgt of a Bn that may be 2 IC of plt in garrison that is doing nothing?  Very different roles and responsibilities, yet they are merited against each other.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

There's already doctrine in place that establishes that a unit shall have a CO, an RSM, a Platoon 2IC, etc. Why can't that be expanded to say a CO does this; an RSM does this; a Platoon 2IC does this; and so on?

Why should it need to be? What is broke that needs fixing?

The reason I ask is I spent 11 1/2 years in two commonwealth armies, the majority of that time as a 2IC, and not once was I unsure of what my roles were in garrison or in the field. I just don't see the need for some sort of bible of 2ICmanship.

 

[Good2Golf]

There's already doctrine in place that establishes that a unit shall have a CO, an RSM, a Platoon 2IC, etc. Why can't that be expanded to say a CO does this; an RSM does this; a Platoon 2IC does this; and so on?

Because those would then be TT&Ps, and as others have already stated, Environments, Corps, Branches, Formations and Units have already established enough higher level framework that to add any further detail would either be pedantic, or actually result in administrative burden to the effective running of the unit.  For the most part, the CAF actually tries to build on initiative and competence using principles of Mission Command and other

As a 2IC, I'd be surprised if your TORs would be anything other than:  "To assist the IC in the conduct of....[cut and paste ICs TORs]."

...or perhaps there are a whole bunch of 2ICs out there who actually need a 3IC to help them help the IC?  :dunno:


Regards
G2G

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

...or perhaps there are a whole bunch of 2ICs out there who actually need a 3IC to help them help the IC?  :dunno:

....or perhaps "ARMY_101" can't think outside of the box and therefore if it isn't written down......

 

[MedCorps]

LCpl Bannister should give you a good idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciFnTiacaDU

Good set of videos.  A fine reminder of why I left the RCIC... my knees and back ached the entire time I watched the series of three videos.  Thanks for posting.

MC

 

[George Wallace]

....or perhaps "ARMY_101" can't think outside of the box and therefore if it isn't written down......

;D

If you don't get outside the box, how can you read the label on it?

 

[Shamrock]

How is this...

Develop Subordinates IAW Army-specific PD Requirements
Recommend Personnel for Army Honours, Awards and Recognition Programs
Integrate Self into Army Team
Promote Army Ethos
Promote Army Customs, Traditions and Institutions
Apply Army Succession Planning Process
Provide input to the Army Business Planning Process
Contribute to Army structure development and review processes
Contribute to Army Capability Development
Contribute to Army Knowledge Management Processes

 

[Old Sweat]

How is this...

Develop Subordinates IAW Army-specific PD Requirements
Recommend Personnel for Army Honours, Awards and Recognition Programs
Integrate Self into Army Team
Promote Army Ethos
Promote Army Customs, Traditions and Institutions
Apply Army Succession Planning Process
Provide input to the Army Business Planning Process
Contribute to Army structure development and review processes
Contribute to Army Capability Development
Contribute to Army Knowledge Management Processes

or Defeat the enemy! 

 

[Towards_the_gap]

How is this...

Develop Subordinates IAW Army-specific PD Requirements
Recommend Personnel for Army Honours, Awards and Recognition Programs
Integrate Self into Army Team
Promote Army Ethos
Promote Army Customs, Traditions and Institutions
Apply Army Succession Planning Process
Provide input to the Army Business Planning Process
Contribute to Army structure development and review processes
Contribute to Army Capability Development
Contribute to Army Knowledge Management Processes

My goodness, this tops every ridiculous thing I've seen come out of the post-Afghan army.

Stick with 'defeat the enemy, keep the troops busy'.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

How is this...

Develop Subordinates IAW Army-specific PD Requirements
Recommend Personnel for Army Honours, Awards and Recognition Programs
Integrate Self into Army Team
Promote Army Ethos
Promote Army Customs, Traditions and Institutions
Apply Army Succession Planning Process
Provide input to the Army Business Planning Process
Contribute to Army structure development and review processes
Contribute to Army Capability Development
Contribute to Army Knowledge Management Processes

That is in fact the job of a 2 ic....of the Army

 

[daftandbarmy]

In addition to everything else, the best 2ICs I 've had always made sure that I was doing my job well. That's how me and my bosses mainly evaluated their performance.

That, and a 'good show on the Bren'!

 

[Shamrock]

That is in fact the job of a 2 ic....of the Army

Pulled from the NCMGS for the rank of MCpl.