Wearing Uniforms Post-Release/Retirement (merged)

[wildman0101]

to whom it may concern...
when i was released 3-b medical 1986 that i was told i was  allowed to wear a cf uniform on nov 11...  and that i was entitled to said as long as i complied with cf regulations ect as to wearing said.. i also had a letter authourizing approval... lost to many moves ect ... my next question is would is if i was allowed to wear a uniform regards said would i wear my last like say lahr w-germany rcd with appropriate rcd and brigade ect...
was just curious or could i display /wear the ssf as i wore 1977  anyway ... i know this sounds like a really dumbass
question but id really like to know...
thanks in advance
                  scoty b

 

[Michael OLeary]

From the CF Dress Regulations:

50.      Commanders of commands may grant limited, revocable authority for former members and civilians to wear CF uniforms and clothing items in public displays and performances, and special events, if they are satisfied that no harm to the CF reputation will result (see also QR&O 17.06). In particular:

      a. by custom, veterans and other ex-service members may wear undress caps (e.g., berets, wedge caps), with badges, on remembrance and memorial occasions, subject to agreement of the branch/regiment concerned;

 

[harv1rcr]

Hi all, i just recently got out of the CF and was wondering what the deal is for wearing DEU's once you have released. I would like to wear them for the Remembrance Day events this year. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Mike 

 

[Michael OLeary]

CANADIAN FORCES DRESS INSTRUCTIONS

Commanders of commands may grant limited, revocable authority for former members and civilians to wear CF uniforms and clothing items in public displays and performances, and special events, if they are satisfied that no harm to the CF reputation will result (see also QR&O 17.06). In particular:

a. by custom, veterans and other ex-service members may wear undress caps (e.g., berets, wedge caps), with badges, on remembrance and memorial occasions, subject to agreement of the branch/regiment concerned;

b. civilian band volunteers may be authorized to  wear uniform as noted in Chapter 6, Section 2;

c. members of sea, army and air cadet organizations may wear CF uniform items and affiliated unit insignia; and

d. historical re-enactment groups may be authorized to wear obsolete uniforms subject to the agreement and general supervision of the branch/regiment or environment concerned.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Did you transfer to the Supplementary Reserve? If so . . .

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-4-eng.asp

Wearing of Uniform
A Supp Res member is authorized to wear a uniform when on service or attending military entertainment or a ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate.

 

[harv1rcr]

I have not transfered to the reserves so that one is not applicable to me. And from what i gather from the above posts i would have to contact either my old unit (1 RCR) or the reserve unit in town to get permission to wear full DEUs or i can wear my old beret in civilian attire?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

QR&O 17.06 – WEARING OF UNIFORM – RESTRICTION

(1) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member may wear a military uniform of obsolete pattern that is not likely to be confused with current dress, no member shall wear any part of military uniform at a fancy dress ball.

(2) No member of the Reserve Force shall wear uniform except when:
(a) on service; or
(b) attending a military entertainment or a ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate.

(3) A former member of the Regular Force or Reserve Force, who was released for a reason other than misconduct may wear uniform:
(a) with the permission of an officer commanding a command or his designated authority and such other officers as may be designated by the Chief of the Defence Staff, when attending a military entertainment or ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate; and
(b) on other occasions with the permission of the Chief of the Defence Staff.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I have not transfered to the reserves so that one is not applicable to me. And from what i gather from the above posts i would have to contact either my old unit (1 RCR) or the reserve unit in town to get permission to wear full DEUs or i can wear my old beret in civilian attire?

Not quite.  You would need the Army Commander's permission, not a unit Commanding Officer's.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Not quite.  You would need the Army Commander's permission, not a unit Commanding Officer's.

Wouldn't a CO of a CBG be considered as an "officer commanding a command"?

 

[Michael OLeary]

No, that would be a Formation Commander.

(Unless definitions in QR&O have been recently rewritten, and someone can post an update.)

 

[harv1rcr]

Hmmm, looks like i'll be going in civies this year. Alright thanks for the help guys.

Mike

 

[Rifleman62]

Unless the authority has been delegated downward i.e. from the Chief of Land Staff to Comd LFWA. It may have been delegated to the Comd of a CMBG or CBG, but I doubt it. Get a hold of the GI at the closest CBG or at the LFA. Too late for 11 Nov 09.

I believe you already have received the answer, so its headdress, medals and poppy with neat, appropriate civilian attire.

 

[Greywolf]

I used to be in the Regular Forces, but left 3 years ago for the civilian world.  I attended a memorial for Remembrance Day this morning and I was wondering if I can still wear my DEUs or I've heard I can still wear my beret.  Is that true? 

 

[harry8422]

Correct me if i am wrong but i believe you are only allowed to wear the beret , maby use of the search function might help.

 

[SeanNewman]

QR&O 17.06 – WEARING OF UNIFORM – RESTRICTION
(1) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member may wear a military uniform of obsolete pattern that is not likely to be confused with current dress, no member shall wear any part of military uniform at a fancy dress ball.

Always wondered where Mess Kit came in on that one?  It's sort of military uniform in that it's tradition and regimental in nature (colour theme and specialized accoutrements), but it is not issued and we pay for it.

I think one would have a strong legal case that they could wear Mess Kit wherever the heck they wanted (assuming they weren't obviously bringing discredit to the forces). 

Any thoughts / references covering Mess Kit?

 

[Journeyman]

Any thoughts / references covering Mess Kit?

I'm too afraid of the thought police to even imagine posting opinions, which may potentially conflict with QR&Os!!

Gutsy move, even suggesting that army.ca members do so 

 

[SeanNewman]

I know where you're going with that, and I never once said you could not post opinions.

What I was saying is that you shouldn't (ie are ordered not to by our employer) give opinions on things that are outside your arcs of understanding.

In fact I stressed all sorts of examples where it would be 100% okay to give your opinion, which all come down to something that you have been in control of and can comment in an informed manner.

Owning and wearing mess kit gives you the right to comment on it.

 

[Neill McKay]

Always wondered where Mess Kit came in on that one?  It's sort of military uniform in that it's tradition and regimental in nature (colour theme and specialized accoutrements), but it is not issued and we pay for it.

I think one would have a strong legal case that they could wear Mess Kit wherever the heck they wanted (assuming they weren't obviously bringing discredit to the forces). 

Any thoughts / references covering Mess Kit?

My non-lawyer thoughts are that whether it was issued or not, and who paid for it, don't affect its status as a uniform.  It's not so long since everybody in the regular force had to buy all of their uniform parts (after an initial kitting out when they joined).

 

[Blackadder1916]

Always wondered where Mess Kit came in on that one?  It's sort of military uniform in that it's tradition and regimental in nature (colour theme and specialized accoutrements), but it is not issued and we pay for it.

I think one would have a strong legal case that they could wear Mess Kit wherever the heck they wanted (assuming they weren't obviously bringing discredit to the forces). 

Any thoughts / references covering Mess Kit?

The most important part of that paragraph of QR&O 17.06 that you highlighted is "fancy dress ball".  Such a function is by definition a ball "at which the attendees wear costumes and masks".  Uniforms of current design and issue are not "costumes" and the use of them as such could would bring discredit to the CF.

Mess dress is not a "sort of" uniform - it is a uniform, regardless that a member paid for it with his own money.  The same holds true for other full dress and undress uniforms authorized for wear by CF members and which are not paid for by the Crown.  Most ceremonial full dress uniforms (scarlets, highland doublets and similar) are acquired using non-public funds and many undress uniforms (patrols/blues and especially in the Navy, the white high collar tunic) are acquired by individuals using personal funds.  Regardless of the method of purchase or issue, the wear of CF uniforms are still subject to regulation.

The mandatory acquisition of mess kit by Reg Force officers is (IMO) one of those hold-overs from an age when it was expected serving officers would "play the game".  Though I've meet the rare strange bird who has objected to paying for mess kit,  I believe most would still purchase it even if it was not required by regulation; you only have to notice the number of NCOs, WOs and reserve officers (none of whom are required "by regulation") that have purchased mess kit.  Mandatory acquisition of mess kit and abidance of regulations governing its wear is (from a legalistic standpoint according to my non-legally trained mind) not much different from an employee of a fast-food chain (or other civilian business) who is required to buy the company uniforms (or clothing items suitable to the workplace) and wear them while working.  The CF just has more elaborate uniforms and greater regulation about its wear.

 

[SeanNewman]

Black,

You make some good points, but I did not at all take "fancy dress ball" to mean a costume party.

I understood it to mean something akin to a black-tie affair, but yes now it completely makes sense why you wouldn't be allowed to if it's a costume party.

I saw it as Mess Kit being equivalent to a Tuxedo so if there was some ultra-formal event to go to, I couldn't understand why not.  Now the regulation becomes obvious not confusing, thank you for the clarification.