Unit Organization in Afhganistan

[Mad_Dog]

Hi folks, I am trying to design some Canadian Forces scenarios for a wargame, Squad Battles: The Long War, that is set in the current war in Afhganistan. I had some questions about unit organization, and how the different arms work together.

- What size of unit is used for a given mission? Eg: a platoon for a patrol, a company or morefor an assault?
- Do troops always travel in a LAV until they dismount to fight? How many LAVs per platoon?
- How many men in a section, and what weapons is the section made up of?
- What heavy weapons or mortars are included in a platoon?

I've been reading the topic "Lessons for infantry in Afghanistan", (really interesting thread), so I realize that the organization is broken down and modified into whatever suits the situation. What would be the best way to simulate this in a wargame, as far as units go? A section divided into 2 fire teams?

If anyone can answer some or all of these questions, I would appreciate it.


Also, I read the newbie FAQ, which scared me a little, so I tried searching for some answers here, and on the web, usings terms like "unit organization in afhganistan", etc. I didn't have any luck, I think my questions are so basic no one answers them.

Thanks again!

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Some if not all of the information you seek would be considered OPSEC (Operational Security) and I would highly doubt anyone here would answer you.

 

[Infanteer]

Actually, most - if not all - of the information is open source.  Just search the site for Infantry Organization and you'll get the breakdown for Infantry Sections, Platoons and Companies.  We've been doing things the same for about 60-70 years, so it ain't hard to find.  There are some peculiarities in Afghanistan, but that's the same with any operation - your game will still be "realistic" with the normal ORBAT.

 

[Greymatters]

It might be simpler if you gave an idea of what type of mission you would like to see performed - i.e. type of ground, date/time/weather, number of enemy troops, ideology, type of weapons, fortifications, access routes, etc., and most important what the mission objective would be, i.e. destroy everything, covert theft, save hostages, etc. 

Provide this and then you would get some recommendations on how many and what type of troops could be used to accomplish that mission...

 

[Snaketnk]

In the spirit of Infanteer's post, I'll try to give you some answers.

-I can't answer the first one; situations and ground dicates far too much.
-We travel in LAVs when the mission calls for it, and we walk when the missions calls for it too. We dismout to do more than fight. 4 LAVs per platoon. 3 Sections + HQ Section.
-In a mounted Section, 10, including 2 C9s and 2 M203s and the vehicle crew.
-C6s and 84s and 60mm once and a while, not so much anymore.

This is the "standard" info, everything gets re-orged when the situation calls for it

I'll admit I haven't been deployed, but about half my section has, and this is what I've gathered. Feel free to correct if need be.

 

[geo]

You could look at the discovery channel on tuesday night.
They are showing a "battle school" of Canadian infantry as they are doing work up training - prior to deployment... you'll see the building blocks

 

[Journeyman]

It might be simpler if you gave an idea of what type of mission you would like to see performed - i.e. type of ground, date/time/weather, number of enemy troops, ideology, type of weapons, fortifications, access routes, etc., and most important what the mission objective would be, i.e. destroy everything, covert theft, save hostages, etc.

During Combat Team briefings, "ideology" could be a show-stopper, but multiple deployments have taught us to just leave "Zoroastrian Buskers" in the ideology portion of the template.

....and I, for one, was ecstatic when the doctrine folks finally got around to including "covert theft" amongst the mission verbs.

 

[Mad_Dog]

In the spirit of Infanteer's post, I'll try to give you some answers.

-I can't answer the first one; situations and ground dicates far too much.
-We travel in LAVs when the mission calls for it, and we walk when the missions calls for it too. We dismout to do more than fight. 4 LAVs per platoon. 3 Sections + HQ Section.
-In a mounted Section, 10, including 2 C9s and 2 M203s and the vehicle crew.
-C6s and 84s and 60mm once and a while, not so much anymore.

This is the "standard" info, everything gets re-orged when the situation calls for it

I'll admit I haven't been deployed, but about half my section has, and this is what I've gathered. Feel free to correct if need be.

So the vehicle crew are infanteers as well, with training for their position?

What is the HQ section made up of?



Thanks for the rest of the replies everyone, and I'll make sure to watch Discovery as well.

 

[Teflon]

So the vehicle crew are infanteers as well, with training for their position?

Yes the veh crew are also infanteers with the driver having a LAV Dvr crourse, the Gunner having a Turret Operators Course and the Crew Commander having uselly MCpl rank, a turret Op crse and a crew commander's crse

Very often they are not alone in the section in having those quals.

 

[Snaketnk]

What Teflon said, by the time we go over we'll probably have our whole section at least driver qualified.

There's some pics from the last TOC to happen here in Gagetown kicking around.

 

[Greymatters]

....and I, for one, was ecstatic when the doctrine folks finally got around to including "covert theft" amongst the mission verbs. 

That is unfortunately a gaming industry concept, and yes, it deserves to be made fun of, but this is a game he is designing after all - not sure how much you have seen of them, but most missions in computer games make no tactical or operational sense...

 

[Greymatters]

During Combat Team briefings, "ideology" could be a show-stopper, but multiple deployments have taught us to just leave "Zoroastrian Buskers" in the ideology portion of the template.

And on this one, I would agree that on your end of the work this probably has no bearing, but on the strat end it is very important.  Ideology would include religous, ethnic, social and cultural beliefs, morals, ethics and behaviours, etc...

In relation to developing a game scenario, this concept is also important in programming what the actions of the NPC's will do (non-player characters)...

 

[Journeyman]

....but on the strat end...

Oh dopey me, focusing on the question asked.....

Hi folks, I am trying to design some Canadian Forces scenarios for a wargame, Squad Battles: The Long War, that is set in the current war in Afghanistan.

Ah well, maybe I misunderstood. You see, my mocking was based somewhat upon:
a) having read the question, and
b) knowledge of ops in Afghanistan; I'm sure I read about them somewhere during my 10-months (so far) in-theatre.

 

[Greymatters]

I read the question as well, and focused on the part where it said "design some CF scenarios for a war game", which involves computers, so I provided input based on past discussions with persons I know who work in game development and computer programming.  It sounds like we read the same question and had two different views on how to answer it, but glad to see you are open-minded about these things...

 

[Pointer]

-C6s and 84s and 60mm once and a while, not so much anymore.

Feel free to correct if need be.

I feel the need to correct the C6/60mm part.  Methinks the GPMG is still very very very much an important part of the platoon.  I won't delve into the particulars of theatre feedback for OPSEC reasons, but the term "more is better" comes to mind.  As for the 60mm, I think it still provides a vital role. 

If we had (which we might, though I haven't heard anything) a greater variety of rounds for the 84mm, the same might be said of it as well.

 

[Mountie]

Some if not all of the information you seek would be considered OPSEC (Operational Security) and I would highly doubt anyone here would answer you.

This answer always cracks me up.  I belong to a few different forums and read many more from various countries.  This is the only one that people constantly bring up OPSEC all the time.  Most of the time the information in question is posted on public sites, usually the DND/CF website.  Is there anything real secretive about the ORBAT of a Canadian infantry platoon?  You can find it on any number of sites or books written about Canadian Forces in Afghanistan.  The units and sub-units deploying on ROTO's are displayed on the DND/CF website months in advance.  Nobody wants to give away information that would put any member of the CF in danger, but lets be realistic.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

This is the only one that people constantly bring up OPSEC all the time. 

..and if you think we will make apologies for that than you are sorely mistaken.

 

[deh]

All of this is open source.  Are there small changes in the ghan?  Of course.  Have we completly shifted the way we organise and deploy our forces? Not really.  Everything is structured to be adaptable.  So when you need two veh's to carry one section (ie RG-31) of course the number of crews doubles and the orbat changes a little. 

If the army doesn't see this as secret (to the point they host the website it is distributed on) neither do I.

Combat Team Operations and structure

http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/B-GL-321-006-FP-001.pdf

Inf Sect and Pl in Battle

http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/B-GL-309-003-FT-001E.pdf

Lav Tactics

http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/B-GL-321-007-FP-001.pdf

Any other questions I'd be happy to help.  Just remember everyone does the same thing a little different, so if you want to know who sits where in the HQ LAV at 2VP I can't tell you.  If you need to know who the Pl medic falls under when attached I might be more useful.  This is all covered under the Inf Pl Sect in Battle.  (On page 53 there is even a cute little diagram with little soldiers and what they will carry)

In the LAV Pl right now we have;

HQ which consists of;

Pl Comd (Lt)
Pl 2I/C (WO)
LAV Sgt (Sgt)
Driver (Pte/Cpl)
Gunner (Pte/Cpl)
Pl Sig (Pte/Cpl) **fixed
Wpns Det Comd (Mcpl)
Wpns Det (4xPte/Cpl)
(Any Atts)

3x Rifle Sect

Sect Comd (Sgt)
Sect 2I/C (Mcpl)
CC (Mcpl)
Dvr (Pte/Cpl)
Gnr (Pte Cpl)
Rfmn (5xPte/Cpl)

Edited to add;
The Pl wpns det usually holds a 60mm mortar, a Carl G 84mm and a C6.  M72's get spread out in the sections and anything heavier is usually det'd out from the Coy wpn's det with a team to operate the equipment.

 

[canadian_moose]

Wouldn't there be a Pl signaler in HQ

 

[dangerboy]

There is a Pl signaler in Pl HQ.