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"Unionizing" the CF (merged)

childs56

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Only a liberal or Ndp supporter would suggest to unionize the Military.
That would be one of the worse things the Military could do. Members already complain about paying mess dues, could you imagine of they had to pay another $40 a pay check to Union Dues.
As for them moving things forward, I doubt that. I went from non union job to a Union job. It was like walking back 20 or more years for overall progress. The lack of common sense for basic functions is comical, progress is slow at best. Because to many members look at the short term gain and fail to look long term.
Safety is lacking, HR is lacking, processes are lacking and the list goes on. Unions are great for few things. Keeping mediocre performers employed, keeping Union bosses with a huge paycheck they otherwise would not get, supporting governments who do not support what you do.

I think the Military should stay the way it is, but they need new leadership, ones who will actually do the right thing.
 

dapaterson

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The CAF lacks HR professionals, and so even when individuals meet the criteria for acting rank, the work often isn't done.

CAF members granted acting rank who are then made substantive carry forward pay incentives for their acting time.
 

Remius

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Mine are 1.75% of salary, but we also saw some pretty rapid and significant compensation increases. Phenomenal return on investment. It also includes representation and if necessary legal counsel for disciplinary proceedings, or for statutory charges if it’s in the course of duty and not covered by the crown. Lots of other stuff too. Well worth it



In my outfit, if we’re acting, we don’t wear the rank but we do get the pay. So yeah- if a MCpl is filling a Sgt’s substantive job as a section commander, pay them the Sgt’s pay. Likewise the Capt commanding a company. Pay her what she’s due for doing the job. That’s only fair. Whether or not they WSE the rank itself could be figured out. One significant aspect for us is if you’re acting and then promote substantive, your promotion, seniority, and pay increments are all backdated.
Which is why without a significant pay increase, the CAF rank and file might not be too happy about paying mess dues. In the short run at least.

Yes we could but you and I both know how many times Cpls can be section commanders or Sgts acting as Platoon WOs. I have no idea what the battalions look like right now but I would assume a lot of people are working one rank above. Basically it would become steady state given the current CAF personnel sate.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m for it. I just have a hard time seeing it ever happening.
 

mariomike

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Mine are 1.75% of salary, but we also saw some pretty rapid and significant compensation increases. Phenomenal return on investment. It also includes representation and if necessary legal counsel for disciplinary proceedings, or for statutory charges if it’s in the course of duty and not covered by the crown. Lots of other stuff too. Well worth it

Nice to hear that.

I'll make a prediction. Compare your first collective agreement and the one when you retire.

I bet your last one will be a lot fatter than your first. I know mine was.
 

brihard

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Nice to hear that.

I'll make a prediction. Compare your first collective agreement and the one when you retire.

I bet your last one will be a lot fatter than your first. I know mine was.
Well yeah. Our first agreement was basically a tourniquet in the form of pay. Much more work to be done.

Personally I don’t think we’ll see CAF unionize in the next couple decades. Huge legal obstacles. A gaggle of troops would need to be willing to start work now and see it through for a decade and a half while their careers are torpedoed. Everything I’ve said has been for information and discussion’s sake only.

But it’s interesting to imagine how a collective bargaining agent might tackle things like base pay, PLD, acting, relocation, accommodations, hours of work outside of operations/exercises, and so on and so forth.
 

RedFive

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Well yeah. Our first agreement was basically a tourniquet in the form of pay. Much more work to be done.

Personally I don’t think we’ll see CAF unionize in the next couple decades. Huge legal obstacles. A gaggle of troops would need to be willing to start work now and see it through for a decade and a half while their careers are torpedoed. Everything I’ve said has been for information and discussion’s sake only.

But it’s interesting to imagine how a collective bargaining agent might tackle things like base pay, PLD, acting, relocation, accommodations, hours of work outside of operations/exercises, and so on and so forth.
And it worked astoundingly well where I'm at. The city that's currently replacing us with their own Police force confidently stated they expected to hire hundreds (4-500 IIRC) of recently released RCMP members, and my understanding now is the provincially instituted limitation on hiring experienced members came about specifically because Surrey Police Service wasn't getting as many Mounties (less than 100 I had heard) as they had anticipated and was aggressively poaching from neighbouring municipal forces instead.

I guess spending as much time as he did calling us all garbage at our jobs worked well for the Mayor.

EDIT to add supporting news stories:

Surrey Police hiring cap

Surrey RCMP survey results
 
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TheMattHan

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At my unionized workplace the union protects the dunderheads who shouldn't be here. It totally ignores those who have a legit beef with the management,

There's a lesson in this somewhere.....
You're right a union might get in the way of the fast and effecient process the CAF has to remove them, and instead they'll probably just I don't know ride out a career in the canteen which would be unimaginable in the CAF
 

Eye In The Sky

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Only a liberal or Ndp supporter would suggest to unionize the Military.
That would be one of the worse things the Military could do. Members already complain about paying mess dues, could you imagine of they had to pay another $40 a pay check to Union Dues.

I just did an Acting position and my regular one for a month. If I was paid the difference in pay between the Acting and my position, the pay difference would easily cover the $40.

what's the benefit to me to mess dues? I get a parting gift on posting/release...that's it.
 

Remius

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I just did an Acting position and my regular one for a month. If I was paid the difference in pay between the Acting and my position, the pay difference would easily cover the $40.

what's the benefit to me to mess dues? I get a parting gift on posting/release...that's it.
40$ is low. It would probably cost more but that is an aside.

Right now I can refuse to do any job that does not fit my work description or my salary level. So I can’t be the director unless I get acting pay to with it. In theory.

But don’t kid yourselves if you all think that a union would solve that problem. Plenty of people still work their substantive and acting jobs despite acting pay and plenty take on roles that would merit acting and don’t get it or ask for it or have it offered.

I’m not sure the CAF could afford the acting pay it would have to dole out unless they fix manning as a whole, reclassify positions to appropriate ranks etc etc.

Now would a union force the CAF to do those things as a result or should the CAF get its house in order before even considering a unionized work force?
 

Brad Sallows

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Why fight Canada as a partner in a coalition when a little agitation can preoccupy the CAF for the next few years?
 

daftandbarmy

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I just did an Acting position and my regular one for a month. If I was paid the difference in pay between the Acting and my position, the pay difference would easily cover the $40.

what's the benefit to me to mess dues? I get a parting gift on posting/release...that's it.

Whoa. Wait... what's this 'parting gift' thing all about?

Asking for a friend ;)
 

daftandbarmy

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Didn't you get a beer mug? Even an unwashed one?

Nope, nada, nothing. Not even a 'so long, sucker'.

It's 'COVID' though, so there's no mystery why units aren't focusing too much on those leaving/ retiring etc. so I'm not the only one, of course.

Glass half full: (CWID there?) having been the PMC etc I know where, in the Mess, I can find a nice beer tankard should I feel the need to 'recognize' myself in the future just in case, you know, they forget ;)
 
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