Underage Drinking Fears (Merged)

[eurowing]

Just to show things have changed though, I was 17 drinking in the Green and Gold in Cornwallis in 1978.

Ditto in 75, and in Brandon and Shilo, your ID was your "buy" into the bars.  The canteen in the field sold beer, liquor and smokes.  That 5 ton put the most miles of any of the resupply vehicles. Germany especially!  One beer at lunch on occasion was not out of the question, but have 2 and the Sgt would have your ass.  I am not going to mention that the space between the M113 drivers periscope and the crew commanders periscopes made a perfect holder for a can of Heineken.  >  My Troop Comd occasionally ensured a happy driver by depositing that worshipped green can in that most prized cup holder.  Come to think of it, so did the BSM.

 

[TCBF]

Just to show things have changed though, I was 17 drinking in the Green and Gold in Cornwallis in 1978.

- Now THAT was a bar.  Nice deck.  Watch the tide roll out/in across the street.  Watch recruits eye each other during mating season (1 Jan - 31 Dec).  Brings back memories...  The CFB Cornwallis Warrants and Sgts Mess, on the other hand, had a bowling alley.  For an instructor, the place to hide was the Curling Club.  Saturday brunch was Bacon, Eggs and beer at the CANEX.

- The .50 Call ammo can racks in the Lynx would hold two US Army MRE cases on their ends.  Each case would hold about thirty 'Green Grenades' (cans of Hieneken).

 

[SprCForr]

Speaking of messes, I always enjoyed the old Wainwright Transient JRC Quonset, prior to the remodel.

6' tables, benches, lino and a bar. Perfect.

 

[TCBF]

Speaking of messes, I always enjoyed the old Wainwright Transient JRC Quonset, prior to the remodel.

6' tables, benches, lino and a bar. Perfect.

- Yup.  Spent Winter Warfare Instructor Course 1980 in that place, warming up for the Park or the Wainwright, other places which, come to think of it, I have also not been in since 1980. 

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

All,

army08 expressed some concerns over how his last post was interpreted, but being on C&P was unable to respond to the situation. Here is a post from him on the topic:

When I used the words "at base", I intended it to mean -,on the foundation of, fundamentally, to begin with, on the basic grounds of, etc.., I did not mean it to mean a Canadian Forces Base, which I commonly refer to as CFB or the like.  Likewise when using the word "adult" I chose "adult" because it is not only a parent who may be the legal guardian of a minor.

While my statements would not be "incorrect" there are specific private laws, be they administrative such as military law, or facility laws governing the activities which can take place on a specific premises.

I had no ill intention in my  statements whatsoever, and simply aimed to clarify that it is not illegal for minors to drink in all circumstances so the presence of alcohol in minors blood stream would not equate illegal or criminal conduct; more over, it would not equate the same level of wrong doing, per se, as having marijuana or a more illicit drug such as Cocaine in their blood.

It is unfortunate that no one understood my meaning and use of "at base" 3 or so times in my post. However even so it would not be illegal if a minor drank on base, OR CFB, if it did not violate any laws. However administratively the use of alcohol by minors is restricted, but not prohibited. It very much is a judgement call by the legal guardian, although as far as I understand the legal guardian must be an adult and not a minor, although this in itself may vary, and technically it is up to the court in question - however, this may be a loophole in the law. So by Adult, I think that in most cases it would need to be an adult, as I feel that is the intent of the law. The determination of an adult being someone who is responsible, not someone who is 18,19,20 etc.. years old, as age is not specific as for Jews it may be 13 years old. My use of adult meant "a responsible person who is deemed responsible in the supervision of a minor legally.

You have misinterpreted my post. The key point is, it is not illegal for minors to drink universally, as there are situations in which they can and it would not be illegal.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

WHAT??

 

[Snafu-Bar]

That's like saying it's only illegal if ya get caught.... >

 

[Monsoon]

WHAT??

I gather that he's saying that liquor laws generally only make it illegal for licensed establishments (or others) to serve alcohol to minors, not for minors to drink alcohol. The laws vary from province to province, but they usually focus on the service rather than the drinking itself.

 

[TCBF]

I gather that he's saying that liquor laws generally only make it illegal for licensed establishments (or others) to serve alcohol to minors, not for minors to drink alcohol. The laws vary from province to province, but they usually focus on the service rather than the drinking itself.

- Well then.  Assuming the server could be charged with serving alcohol to a minor, could the minor be charged with inciting to commit, or as an accessory?

 

[Marshall]

I kind of thought that he meant "at foundation" at the first of this... but everyone else didn't so I figured I was wrong. ha.

But still, I can not see that being true? I was always under the impression that anyone over 19 (in NS anyways) who served or gave anyone alcohol under the age of 19 was doing a illegal act of some sort?

 

[Snafu-Bar]

This clarify any doubts as to whether or not it's a crime to serve someone underage. This from the LCBO's own site.

Reproduced under the fair dealings act ala the usual provisio's...

http://www.lcbo.com/socialresponsibility/alcoholminors.shtml


KEEPING ALCOHOL OUT OF THE HANDS OF MINORS

 
ENSURING ONLY THE RIGHT PEOPLE GET SERVED
Preventing sales to minors and those who appear intoxicated is a year-round responsibility LCBO employees take very seriously. Our Challenge and Refusal program helps ensure only the right people get served. In fiscal 2007-2008, LCBO store staff challenged more than 2 million people who appeared underage or intoxicated. Just over 134,000 were refused service – a nine per cent increase from last year and a new record. Of those refused, 83 per cent were for age-related reasons.In Ontario, it’s illegal to consume alcohol before the age of 19.

It’s also illegal for anyone to supply alcohol to minors. When staff have reasonable grounds to believe someone is buying for a minor, the Liquor Licence Act gives them the right and responsibility to refuse the sale.


This chunk from the liquor license act. I underlined the section pertaining to parental consent.

http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/l/96267_01.htm#section33

Supplying liquor to minors
33  (1) A person must not

(a) sell, give or otherwise supply liquor to a minor,

(b) have liquor in his or her possession for the purpose of selling, giving or otherwise supplying it to a minor, or

(c) in or at a place under his or her control, permit a minor to consume liquor.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if liquor is

(a) given to a minor by his or her parent, spouse or guardian in a residence for consumption in the residence,

(b) administered to a minor by or under the authority of a medical practitioner or dentist for medicinal purposes, or

(c) given or otherwise supplied to a minor in accordance with the regulations.
(3) A person has liquor in his or her possession when the person has it in his or her personal possession or knowingly

(a) has it in the actual possession or custody of another person, or

(b) has it in or at a place, whether or not that place belongs to or is occupied by the person, for the use or benefit of the person or another person.

(4) If one of 2 or more persons, with the knowledge and consent of the rest, has liquor in his or her possession, it is deemed to be in the possession of each of them.

(5) It is a defence to a charge under this section if the defendant satisfies the court that, in reaching the conclusion that the person was not a minor, the defendant

(a) required that the person produce identification, and

(b) examined and acted on the authenticity of the identification.

(6) A person who contravenes this section commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine of not less than $500.

Prohibitions with respect to minors
34  (1) A minor who purchases or consumes liquor on a licensed establishment, except as provided under this Act or by the Liquor Distribution Act, commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine of not less than $100.

(2) A minor who, without lawful reason or excuse, enters or is found in a liquor store, or in that part of a licensed establishment where the minor is not permitted by the regulations, commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine of not less than $100.

(3) A minor who, without lawful reason or excuse, has liquor in his or her possession commits an offence.

(4) A minor commits an offence who, for the purpose of purchasing or attempting to purchase liquor or of gaining or attempting to gain access to a licensed establishment, presents identification, proof of age or any other record to establish his or her age or identity if that identification, proof of age or other record

(a) has been altered or defaced to misrepresent the age or identity of the minor,

(b) was not issued by the issuing agency to the minor,

(c) was issued by the issuing agency to another person, or

(d) is otherwise forged or fraudulently made.

Minors on licensed premises
35  A person who holds a licence under this Act or who sells liquor under the Liquor Distribution Act, or the person's employee, must not authorize or permit a minor to enter on or to be on premises where liquor is sold or kept for sale except

(a) if the minor is accompanied by a parent or guardian on premises where liquor is sold exclusively for consumption off the premises,

(b) with lawful excuse, or

(c) in prescribed circumstances.





Cheers.

 

[Marshall]

This clarify any doubts as to whether or not it's a crime to serve someone underage. This from the LCBO's own site.

Reproduced under the fair dealings act ala the usual provisio's...

http://www.lcbo.com/socialresponsibility/alcoholminors.shtml


KEEPING ALCOHOL OUT OF THE HANDS OF MINORS

 
ENSURING ONLY THE RIGHT PEOPLE GET SERVED
Preventing sales to minors and those who appear intoxicated is a year-round responsibility LCBO employees take very seriously. Our Challenge and Refusal program helps ensure only the right people get served. In fiscal 2007-2008, LCBO store staff challenged more than 2 million people who appeared underage or intoxicated. Just over 134,000 were refused service – a nine per cent increase from last year and a new record. Of those refused, 83 per cent were for age-related reasons.In Ontario, it’s illegal to consume alcohol before the age of 19.

It’s also illegal for anyone to supply alcohol to minors. When staff have reasonable grounds to believe someone is buying for a minor, the Liquor Licence Act gives them the right and responsibility to refuse the sale.


This chunk from the liquor license act. I underlined the section pertaining to parental consent.

http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/l/96267_01.htm#section33

Supplying liquor to minors
33  (1) A person must not

(a) sell, give or otherwise supply liquor to a minor,

(b) have liquor in his or her possession for the purpose of selling, giving or otherwise supplying it to a minor, or

(c) in or at a place under his or her control, permit a minor to consume liquor.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if liquor is

(a) given to a minor by his or her parent, spouse or guardian in a residence for consumption in the residence,

(b) administered to a minor by or under the authority of a medical practitioner or dentist for medicinal purposes, or

(c) given or otherwise supplied to a minor in accordance with the regulations.
(3) A person has liquor in his or her possession when the person has it in his or her personal possession or knowingly

(a) has it in the actual possession or custody of another person, or

(b) has it in or at a place, whether or not that place belongs to or is occupied by the person, for the use or benefit of the person or another person.

(4) If one of 2 or more persons, with the knowledge and consent of the rest, has liquor in his or her possession, it is deemed to be in the possession of each of them.

(5) It is a defence to a charge under this section if the defendant satisfies the court that, in reaching the conclusion that the person was not a minor, the defendant

(a) required that the person produce identification, and

(b) examined and acted on the authenticity of the identification.

(6) A person who contravenes this section commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine of not less than $500.

Prohibitions with respect to minors
34  (1) A minor who purchases or consumes liquor on a licensed establishment, except as provided under this Act or by the Liquor Distribution Act, commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine of not less than $100.

(2) A minor who, without lawful reason or excuse, enters or is found in a liquor store, or in that part of a licensed establishment where the minor is not permitted by the regulations, commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine of not less than $100.

(3) A minor who, without lawful reason or excuse, has liquor in his or her possession commits an offence.

(4) A minor commits an offence who, for the purpose of purchasing or attempting to purchase liquor or of gaining or attempting to gain access to a licensed establishment, presents identification, proof of age or any other record to establish his or her age or identity if that identification, proof of age or other record

(a) has been altered or defaced to misrepresent the age or identity of the minor,

(b) was not issued by the issuing agency to the minor,

(c) was issued by the issuing agency to another person, or

(d) is otherwise forged or fraudulently made.

Minors on licensed premises
35  A person who holds a licence under this Act or who sells liquor under the Liquor Distribution Act, or the person's employee, must not authorize or permit a minor to enter on or to be on premises where liquor is sold or kept for sale except

(a) if the minor is accompanied by a parent or guardian on premises where liquor is sold exclusively for consumption off the premises,

(b) with lawful excuse, or

(c) in prescribed circumstances.





Cheers.

As I thought. (Although I did not know that parents were ALLOWED LEGALLY to do this in their home). Thank you for clarification. It is for Ontario but I am sure that Nova Scotia is similar.

 

[Cronicbny]

Practically, this means that HMC Ships have an established age of 19 yrs old in order to drink.  When we are alongside a foreign port and local guests are on board, those guests (meaning residents of whatever port we are in) must adhere to the age limit of the state/province/country that we are visiting.  Members of the Ship's Company, who may be under the age of 21 (to use the U.S. drinking age as an example) are permitted to consume alcohol in the mess.  Can't find a reference that explicitly states that, but that is how I have administered things in the past and appears to be the way my fellow XO's and past CO's do things too.

I don't know how this would apply if, say, the relative of a Canadian sailor came to visit the Ship in whatever port and wanted to drink in the mess - never encountered that yet.  Unless my Captain told me different, I would authorize it, provided of course they were 19 or older.

Agreed. The only law you are required to tend to whilst onboard is that of the issuing province. Technically speaking, even US citizens in a Canadian ship in an American port are subject only to Canadian law whilst onboard. International convention is quite clear in that regard... however, since we are all subject to Canadian law, we are also responsible for everyone after we have served them alcohol. I think the policy, unwritten as it may be, that you have followed in the past is a wise one.

I almost think (it happens frequently) that someone should clarify that in a MARCORD or CANFORGEN... however, there are perhaps situations (such as this) that we don't REALLY want clarification on anyhow It's much like arming Class B personnel to stand a Foreign port duty watch... too sticky to handle in an actual text.

 

[SupersonicMax]

As long as they know you wouldn't be a alcoholic at RMC or wherever (and get many in poo poo). 

Hmmmmm.  EVERYONE becomes alchoolic at RMC

 

[Raylee]

It's been several weeks since my screening ended, now its up to the final call at Borden to either accept my file or not. But a few areas of concern have been surrounding me the past few days.

I am 17.

On the medical the physicians asst asked me if I drink, being nervous I said yes, he said I'm assuming socially, I replied yes. Now what I actually wanted to say was that I don't even drink, I just drank 2-3 times in the past at parties. I am in no way a social drinker because I have gone 5 months without drinking. Now the higher up's at Borden probably think I'm an underage alcoholic :-\

Should this be something of concern?

They don't care so much about alcohol as they do about illegal drugs. When I was 16 I wrote down that I drank and they said it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[psychedelics07]

On the substance abuse form, my total for alcohol consumed wasn't far off from 10,000 (beers) over the past 6 years give or take.    ****. 

 

[Silentstriker01]

Hey all, I'm applying to ROTP and just had a quick question on their policy on underage drinking. I've drank probably 10 times all of high school and turn 18 in a month (legal age in Alberta). I'm assuming the the length of time that you last drank matters so I'm curtailing all drinking until my birthday. A lot of threads say that even underage alcohol isn't that big of a deal but what about for ROTP?

Also as a side note I did try marijuana twice in grade 11. It was a HUGE mistake and I wish everyday I could take it back however I do take full responsibility for it.

Am I still eligible for ROTP?

 

[SeanNewman]

Lots of threads on this board about what will and won't get you punted from the recruiting centre.

I will tell you this though: I wouldn't lie about anything you ever get asked about.  As an institution we are much more forgiving about people being open and admitting their errors as opposed to catching someone in a lie.

As a side note, I would be very surprised if anyone in uniform ever didn't have a few drinks before legal age.  However, every time you choose to do something, think a bound ahead and weigh the consequences.

I'm not telling you to do or not do anything, but manage your risks.  If you have a couple in your basement with your friends, what is the worst that could happen?  Now compare that to having a few and driving around with your friends?  I'm pretty sure getting an underage DUI and manslaughter charges would probably curtail your career advancement.

You're an adult now or will be very soon.  Time to start weighing pros and cons and making decisions that will have consequences.

 

[ArmedAndUseless]

I took (and passed) my CFAT today, and afterwords we had to fill out a form on any drugs we've taken. I'm currently 16, and asked if a glass of champagne on New Years counted (in 2014 and 2015 my family celebrated Xmas and New Years holidays in the Caribbean, and to ring in the New Year those times, my parents gave each of us a glass half full with champagne. I'm the youngest, the other two are adults; this was not a case of bad parenting I promise), and he said yes so I put down and X in the alcohol column, for consumption rate I put 1 x year, and the date range 12/2014 - 12/2015, and said I had it twice. I didn't think much of it at the time, it was a small amount to celebrate a special occasion; I didn't see why it'd be a big deal. However, my parents got stressed when I told them, saying how I'm a minor and all that. Should I be concerned? Could my application be denied over this? Thanks for your time, and your help!

 

[rbb12]

Short answer is no.

I just recently went through it, have consumed alcohol many more times than you, and my application is still rolling along just fine. If you were a crippled alcoholic at 16 it would be a different story, but twice seems quite minute. Don't stress it and keep focused on the rest of the process.

Good Luck.