GR66
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That's what they get for smoking Russian cigarettes!
Ukraine - Superthread
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One aspect that hasn’t been addressed if the Lend Lease agreement between us and the Ukraine has specific language to allow for export of controlled substances and technologies. Thus there is no law requiring that they don’t get DU armor…There's a catch with the M1s going to Ukraine...
OK, What’s the Catch?
We’ve undoubtedly committed the tanks to Ukraine, but don’t expect to see them there anytime soon. We are not providing the M1A2s from our existing inventory of tanks; the Ukrainians will get shiny (OK, dull OD green ones, actually) new ones fresh off the assembly line. It could be several months before tanks can be assembled and shipped overseas to the warzone. And we can make them in only one place; a government-owned General Dynamics-operated plant in Lima, Ohio.
Building a tank is slow going, and the Ohio facility can only put out a dozen new units per month. But wait, there’s more holding up the delivery. The assembly line is now full, fulfilling orders for Poland and Taiwan. These are paying customers; we can’t exactly toss them to the back of the line and throw them on the proverbial backburner. Poland has ordered an impressive 250 M1A2s at a cost of at least $9 million each (who says war isn’t big business?). They are supposed to be delivered in 2025. Politico tells us that, in the meantime, we are supplying the Poles with over 100 M1A1 tanks recently retired by the Marine Corps. You see, Warsaw needs them to replace the more than 250 old T-72 tanks they gave to Ukraine last year.
The Taiwanese placed their order for 108 M1A2 Abrams in 2019, anticipating possible future issues with mainland China. The first of these units was supposed to be delivered in 2024. Things are starting to get a bit sticky, and someone has to decide who gets what and when.
Abrams tanks are no longer “stick-built” from the ground up. Instead, “seed vehicles” are used. These seed vehicles are bare-bones A1 tanks that General Dynamics modifies to meet the customer’s needs. Each one is custom-built according to the technology and armaments that the customer chooses.
An M1A2 Abrams is unloaded from a C17 in Bulgaria in June 2015. It was later used in the joint training exercise Operation Speed and Power. US Army photo by Spc. Jacqueline Dowland, 13th Public Affairs Detachment. DVIDS
Why Don’t We Send Them What We Already Have?
Great question. I was just wondering that. Wouldn’t it be easier to send them the M1A2 Abrams from our existing inventory and slowly replenish our stockpiles, as we are not currently at war? Yes, it would, but it would also be against the law. US federal law prohibits the export of tanks with classified armor packages. This includes those that utilize depleted uranium as a critical component. So, we strip off all of the high-speed classified stuff and custom-make the new tanks for export to our allies. This takes time. Time that the Ukrainians can ill afford.
What are the Ukrainians to do in the many months it will take to build and ship their tanks? We plan to begin training them on the care and maintenance of the tanks they do not yet have, and we will be teaching them how to operate the vehicles individually and instruct their leaders in American combined arms maneuver tactics.
The US Agrees to Send M1 Abrams Tanks to Ukraine, but There Is a Catch
The Biden administration has decided to provide the Ukrainian armed forces with 31 M1A2 Abrams main battle tanks, a stunning reversal of policy. The new tanks will be custom-made for export and will take several months to assemble and ship, as the assembly line is currently full with orders from...sofrep.com
The way we did however agree to send the Abrams is off the line - as opposed to Presidential Draw Down of current stock.
Bradley’s were sent via two methods. 50 from Draw Down and 57 from the most recent , which would mean build, but it sounded like they are coming from Down Down of older A2/A3 systems rather than newly made A4, off BAE’s York PA line.
daftandbarmy
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I am thinking that those armoured police wagons we are sending over will get used for a lot more than border patrol considering that the assault on the trenches was conducted from Toyota? with a cab mounted machine gun. I'll bet they will soon mount weapons and used them in assaults.
Maxman1
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There used to be one.
CFB Chilliwack - Wikipedia
There's a closed CFS that could be turned into a mountain warfare school.
CFS Kamloops - Wikipedia
could Iron Dome be coming soon? This is really going to piss the Russians off
daftandbarmy
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There's a closed CFS that could be turned into a mountain warfare school.
CFS Kamloops - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
You could base a mountain warfare school at CFB Comox. It's about a couple hour's drive to some of the best climbing in Canada
The Golden Hinde : Climbing, Hiking & Mountaineering : SummitPost
The Golden Hinde : SummitPost.org : Climbing, hiking, mountaineering
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Well, here’s a bit of a shocker and if it holds true, makes us look even more pathetic in the eyes of NATO and the G7.
greekcitytimes.com
Greece to send Leopard-2 tanks to Ukraine
It is expected that Greece will supply Ukraine with a total of 40-80 Leopard-2A4 tanks out of 181 tanks of this model, which are in service with the Greek army.
Greece To Send Leopard-2 Tanks To Ukraine
The Ukrainian edition kyivpost.com in today’s publication includes Greece among the countries from which the delivery of Leopard tanks is expected. It says
greekcitytimes.com
daftandbarmy
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Looks like the UA is losing in Bakhmut....
Untold Reality Of Wagner Group In Bakhmut Ukraine | First Hand Account, What The Media Wont Tell You
Untold Reality Of Wagner Group In Bakhmut Ukraine | First Hand Account, What The Media Wont Tell You
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Pz 87 Leopard 2 - Fighting-Vehicles.com
The Pz 87 Leopard 2 is the Swiss designation of a Swiss licence built Leopard 2A4 Main Battle Tank. Pz stands for “Panzer” or rather “tank” in English.
fighting-vehicles.com
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/KIU53WXAWJK27P2GUC6QJFRJ5Y.jpg)
Swiss say Germany can freely dispose of Leopard 2 tanks sold back to Rheinmetall
Switzerland's defence procurement office said on Friday it had given the go-ahead for Germany to freely dispose of Leopard 2 tanks previously sold back to defence group Rheinmetall.
www.reuters.com
Looks like they retained 134 of the 380 they had.
MilEME09
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Bakhmut has been a slow grind, Wagner has been forced to get help from the regular Russian after suffering an estimated 14000 casualties according to British intelligence. Russian forces broke Ukrainian lines in the south, and now have fire on one of the MSRs into the city. If the other MSR comes under fire, Ukraine may be forced to abandon the city and take up positions in the hills to the west above the town.
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Perun argues that the West and Ukraine had best not under-estimate Russian strengths:
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How about Kanaskis?You could base a mountain warfare school at CFB Comox. It's about a couple hour's drive to some of the best climbing in Canada
View attachment 76114View attachment 76115
The Golden Hinde : Climbing, Hiking & Mountaineering : SummitPost
The Golden Hinde : SummitPost.org : Climbing, hiking, mountaineeringwww.summitpost.org
daftandbarmy
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Also, Vancouver Island is a nicer place to be than anywhere in Alberta, particularly Nov-Apr.Sure, but not alot of military base type support... and no helicopters
Quirky
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Subjective. I prefer a cold, clear day in the winter than miserable overcast and rain.
daftandbarmy
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Good point, better stay where you are. It sucks here in winter time. Especially yesterday
Colin Parkinson
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Was thinking about this in a Canadian context, Canada could commit it's entire Leopard fleet to Ukraine and in return get M1's from the US. We could make a deal where DU equipped tanks are allowed to train in Canada and would be eventually replaced by export models. We did similar back in the late 50's when we leased US made 105mm howitzers, while ours were being made. A further advantage of the M1 purchase is that heavy maintenance could be done at US facilities, leaving us only to have to deal with general maintenance. The downside of this arrangement is that there are no M1 based ARV (there is the M88A2) and the AEV versions are a Breaching vehicle M1150 and the M1074 bridging vehicle. But they don't have direct replacement for the Leo 2 AEV.
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