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Ukraine - Superthread

The Bread Guy

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Am I the only one getting the same vibe as that time when all those Daesh 2i/c's were getting whacked one after the other?
Screenshot 2022-05-17 205848.jpg
 

Maxman1

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You know you messed up when the Swiss start going hmmm


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Kirkhill

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There's been a lot of talk, at least in Europe about the need to give Putin Off-ramps, to let him save face, to sacrifice a bit of land to stop the suffering of the Ukrainians... the French are very vocal in this regard. The Ukrainiians seemingly dont want to play along. They want the Moskals, the Rashists, the Orcs, gone... by Tuesday.

This chap addresses that discussion.

 

daftandbarmy

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Bring back the Vickers!

Why Ukraine’s army still uses a 100-year-old machinegun​

Mocked by Russia, the M1910 nevertheless has advantages over more modern weapons​


Боец Национальной гвардии возле пулемета Максим на одном из блокпостов в Харькове в субботу 30.04.2022. Фото Мариенко Андрея



Ukrainian forces are fighting off Russian invaders with types of machineguns which entered service when Ukraine was part of a Russian Empire ruled by a tsar. The Maxim M1910 has a steampunk aesthetic: it weighs 68kg and has an armoured gun shield on a distinctive two-wheeled mount allowing it to be towed behind a vehicle or manoeuvred by the gun crew. Russian media mock these antiques and say the Ukrainians use them because they lack modern weapons. The truth is more complex.

As the name suggests, the weapon was introduced in 1910. It is a Russian-made version of the first truly automatic machinegun, which was patented by Hiram Maxim, an American-British inventor, in 1883. Earlier Gatling guns had six barrels which needed to be cranked by hand. In Maxim’s design, the recoil from firing a bullet works the action and loads the next round. One finger on the trigger unleashes a succession of bullets. A water-cooled barrel allows it to keep firing for extended periods. Variants of Maxim’s gun proved a lethally effective tool of slaughter and terror during the late-19th-century heyday of imperialism, allowing small European forces to kill those they were dispossessing by the hundred or thousand. It went on to revolutionise war between European states themselves.

Modern medium machineguns firing the same 7.62mm ammunition as the M1910 are much lighter and more portable—the current Russian PKM weighs less than a fifth as much. However they lack water cooling. Firing continuously even for a minute can cause the barrel to deform, or the weapon to “cook off”, when bullets fire without the trigger being pulled.

In 2016, Ukraine’s defence minister confirmed he had authorised the release of some M1910s from government stocks (the Maxim gun is not standard issue but available when requested, as some territorial defence units have done). An audit in 2012 showed that Ukraine had 35,000 of the weapons in storage, all manufactured between 1920 and 1950.

Only a handful of M1910s have been seen in use since Russia invaded in February, but they have reportedly proven effective in fixed defensive positions and fortifications. As well as water cooling allowing sustained fire, their fixed mounts make them easier to aim. A Ukrainian soldier interviewed in 2016 said the M1910 was highly accurate at one kilometre, effective to three kilometres, and he would not swap it for a more modern weapon. Some M1910s have even been modernised, with images on social media showing vintage machineguns with modern electronic “red dot” sights. The gun is not officially in service with any other army, although Russian-backed separatist militias in the Donbas region also use them, and they have cropped up in conflict zones from Syria to Vietnam.

One element of Russian propaganda may be accurate: Ukraine’s attempt to develop their own copy of the modern Russian PKM in 2011 was not a success. Troops reported severe problems with the Mayak KM, as it is known, including that it was impossible to aim at targets less than 400 metres away because of a fixture obscuring the sight. The head of armaments of Ukraine’s armed forces admitted in 2016 that there were still problems with the gun but the design was being modified. There is still little sign of the Mayak KM in service. Instead Ukraine has imported a number of foreign machineguns, and Ukrainian mechanics are scavenging guns from destroyed Russian vehicles to convert into infantry weapons. And some troops are still using the trusty M1910. Machineguns remain an essential feature of infantry combat. Just as it was a century ago, the M1910 remains deadly.

 

Kirkhill

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Misfire, wait 60.

I still have vivid recollections of the graceful ballet work I did on the range when I had an M72 misfire. Sez here you keep the weapon pointed down range at the targets while you try, try and try again. Damn thing went off at arms length while I was inspecting it and recocking as per the IAs of the day. Wiedly I still hit the tank I still managed to hit the ass end of an old Centurion.

So, with the new kit , I guess it would be safe to wait 60, drop the dud in the back of your KIA, drive broken roads for two thousand miles and then jam the brakes on.... :LOL:
 

The Bread Guy

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Donetsk rebel leader (archived link to rebel media) on what's going to happen to troops who surrendered @ Azovstal ....
... Fates of Ukrainian militants who surrendered at the Azovstal steelworks will be decided in court, the DPR Head Denis Pushilin said.

"As for war criminals, and those who are nationalists, if they laid down arms, their fate will be decided in court. No matter what emotions some people might feel, and I know that opinions differ, if the enemy laid down arms, his further fate is decided by a court. If it's a nationalist criminal, it's a tribunal," Pushilin said during his visit to Mariupol.

He specified that not only commanders, but also those who acted on their commands and who stick to the Nazi ideology in their actions and deeds, especially in relation to civilians, are considered war criminals ...
Amplified by RUS state media (highlights mine)
Screenshot 2022-05-18 061357.jpg
Rebel courts, RUS investigation? What could possibly go wrong, right?

Other usual suspects also piping in (Slutsky is the new leader of a RUS hard nationalist party who's replacing this guy who died recently - Slutsky headline is Google English translation from RUS independent media in Russian here)
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OldSolduer

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Bring back the Vickers!

Why Ukraine’s army still uses a 100-year-old machinegun​

Mocked by Russia, the M1910 nevertheless has advantages over more modern weapons​


Боец Национальной гвардии возле пулемета Максим на одном из блокпостов в Харькове в субботу 30.04.2022. Фото Мариенко Андрея



Ukrainian forces are fighting off Russian invaders with types of machineguns which entered service when Ukraine was part of a Russian Empire ruled by a tsar. The Maxim M1910 has a steampunk aesthetic: it weighs 68kg and has an armoured gun shield on a distinctive two-wheeled mount allowing it to be towed behind a vehicle or manoeuvred by the gun crew. Russian media mock these antiques and say the Ukrainians use them because they lack modern weapons. The truth is more complex.

As the name suggests, the weapon was introduced in 1910. It is a Russian-made version of the first truly automatic machinegun, which was patented by Hiram Maxim, an American-British inventor, in 1883. Earlier Gatling guns had six barrels which needed to be cranked by hand. In Maxim’s design, the recoil from firing a bullet works the action and loads the next round. One finger on the trigger unleashes a succession of bullets. A water-cooled barrel allows it to keep firing for extended periods. Variants of Maxim’s gun proved a lethally effective tool of slaughter and terror during the late-19th-century heyday of imperialism, allowing small European forces to kill those they were dispossessing by the hundred or thousand. It went on to revolutionise war between European states themselves.

Modern medium machineguns firing the same 7.62mm ammunition as the M1910 are much lighter and more portable—the current Russian PKM weighs less than a fifth as much. However they lack water cooling. Firing continuously even for a minute can cause the barrel to deform, or the weapon to “cook off”, when bullets fire without the trigger being pulled.

In 2016, Ukraine’s defence minister confirmed he had authorised the release of some M1910s from government stocks (the Maxim gun is not standard issue but available when requested, as some territorial defence units have done). An audit in 2012 showed that Ukraine had 35,000 of the weapons in storage, all manufactured between 1920 and 1950.

Only a handful of M1910s have been seen in use since Russia invaded in February, but they have reportedly proven effective in fixed defensive positions and fortifications. As well as water cooling allowing sustained fire, their fixed mounts make them easier to aim. A Ukrainian soldier interviewed in 2016 said the M1910 was highly accurate at one kilometre, effective to three kilometres, and he would not swap it for a more modern weapon. Some M1910s have even been modernised, with images on social media showing vintage machineguns with modern electronic “red dot” sights. The gun is not officially in service with any other army, although Russian-backed separatist militias in the Donbas region also use them, and they have cropped up in conflict zones from Syria to Vietnam.

One element of Russian propaganda may be accurate: Ukraine’s attempt to develop their own copy of the modern Russian PKM in 2011 was not a success. Troops reported severe problems with the Mayak KM, as it is known, including that it was impossible to aim at targets less than 400 metres away because of a fixture obscuring the sight. The head of armaments of Ukraine’s armed forces admitted in 2016 that there were still problems with the gun but the design was being modified. There is still little sign of the Mayak KM in service. Instead Ukraine has imported a number of foreign machineguns, and Ukrainian mechanics are scavenging guns from destroyed Russian vehicles to convert into infantry weapons. And some troops are still using the trusty M1910. Machineguns remain an essential feature of infantry combat. Just as it was a century ago, the M1910 remains deadly.

Old weapons kill you just fine.

No doubt there are a few Moison Nagants on the battlefield as well
 
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