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Ukraine - Superthread

MilEME09

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As much as this seems to be a Putin Bucket List go, I don't think he'd be quite that dumb - then again, irrational, violent ex's have been known to be dumb.

For your viewing pleasure, here's a map captured (as opposed to downloaded with potentially nasty electronic greeblies) from a pro-RUS amplifier site allegedly ... helped out by RUS's FSB ...
If Kherson is in Ukrainian hands right now, they need to exploit that and encircle the forces trapped on the west side of the river.
 

OceanBonfire

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Verified by Amnesty International, widely-banned cluster munitions kill civilians who took shelter inside a preschool, killing three of them, including a child, and wounding another child. This is the fourth attack in this conflict that has struck a school that Amnesty International has verified. While Russia and Ukraine are not parties to the ICC, in 2015 Ukraine accepted the court’s jurisdiction over alleged crimes committed on its territory from 20 February 2014:


 

HiTechComms

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What I am surprised at is how much Russians have really avoided at destroying Ukraine.

1. They have avoided destroying critical infrastructure: Telecoms, Water, Electricity.
2. Civilian casualties.

I mean the Americans targeted those specifically when they went into the middle east.
 

TacticalTea

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What I am surprised at is how much Russians have really avoided at destroying Ukraine.

1. They have avoided destroying critical infrastructure: Telecoms, Water, Electricity.
2. Civilian casualties.

I mean the Americans targeted those specifically when they went into the middle east.
Not to be rude, but man, you sure say a lot of weird shit.

You know, one of the first things I learned years ago as an officer cadet was humility.

Now, answer PPCLIGuy's question so the poor bastard can move on.
 

KevinB

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HiTechComms

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Not to sure about number 2 there boss. Lots of innocents killed so far. On purpose too.
Civilian casualties are always terrible.
I expected more civilian casualties that's all. I am simply looking at

I am not seeing anything that show Russians are targeting civilians.

I think there is extreme polarization between West and East Ukraine.
 

KevinB

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What I am surprised at is how much Russians have really avoided at destroying Ukraine.

1. They have avoided destroying critical infrastructure: Telecoms, Water, Electricity.
2. Civilian casualties.

I mean the Americans targeted those specifically when they went into the middle east.
Are you fucking serious?
1) Yes some Telecom was removed - simply based on Mil Requirements - Water and Electricity ?
2) I can only assume you are a troll at this point, please enjoy my ignore list.
 

Remius

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Civilian casualties are always terrible.
I expected more civilian casualties that's all. I am simply looking at

I am not seeing anything that show Russians are targeting civilians.
You aren’t looking that’s the problem.
 

Spencer100

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I had a number of run ins with them in Prague and CR in the mid 90s. My days of drinking in downtown Detroit when I lived in Windsor came in handy during those occasions.
It was called Wheelers and sometimes your car was not there when you came out. The DPS sometimes cared. :) Did we bump into each other? :)
 

Kirkhill

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As much as this seems to be a Putin Bucket List go, I don't think he'd be quite that dumb - then again, irrational, violent ex's have been known to be dumb.

For your viewing pleasure, here's a map captured (as opposed to downloaded with potentially nasty electronic greeblies) from a pro-RUS amplifier site allegedly ... helped out by RUS's FSB ...

Never underestimate the power of idiots.
 

HiTechComms

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Are you fucking serious?
1) Yes some Telecom was removed - simply based on Mil Requirements - Water and Electricity ?
2) I can only assume you are a troll at this point, please enjoy my ignore list.
Looking at all the sources. At least they are negotiating end to hostilities. To early to say, but I am standing by my first assessment that Russians will get rid of some elements of Ukraine leadership, Donbas and Crimea. Lets wait and see what happens after negotiations.

What do Russians want? What do Ukrainians want?

Following things on the Table (What I have read)

Russia
No NATO
No Nukes
Donbas Regions
Crimea

Ukraine
West Alignment
No territory given

It will come down to the leverage. Will Russia win or Ukraine hold Russians back. I am not agreeing with Russians on any sense but something has to give.

Now the crappy part. Civilian casualties. Ukrainian ethnic and Ukrainian Russian ethnic people. Both sides are gone suffer. Its a crappy solution using Military to get a Political settlement. I think we can all agree people not wanting to have governance and future is a given. In Canada we have a political process but Ukraine does not.

 
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suffolkowner

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What I am surprised at is how much Russians have really avoided at destroying Ukraine.

1. They have avoided destroying critical infrastructure: Telecoms, Water, Electricity.
2. Civilian casualties.

I mean the Americans targeted those specifically when they went into the middle east.
I take your point about the Russians using more discretion than we are used to compared to Syria for example. But to compare them to the Americans is ridiculous.
 

suffolkowner

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Looking at all the sources. At least they are negotiating end to hostilities. To early to say, but I am standing by my first assessment that Russians will get rid of some elements of Ukraine leadership, Donbas and Crimea. Lets wait and see what happens after negotiations.

What do Russians want? What do Ukrainians want?

The Ukrainians want to be able to live and run their own country without threat from a foreign entity. Russian wants shouldn't even be considered
 

Kirkhill

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If Kherson is in Ukrainian hands right now, they need to exploit that and encircle the forces trapped on the west side of the river.

The one observation that stands out for me is the uniformity of depth of penetration. There is no one incursion that has advanced farther than any of the others, and that includes the Crimean incursion. And they are all a long way from linking up.

And still there are these tales of poor logistics and lack of fuel.

Battle of the Bulge?
 
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