Tory minority in jeopardy as opposition talks coalition. Will there be another election?

[Zell_Dietrich]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/11/27/question-period.html

Opposition parties won't support Tory economic update
Last Updated: Thursday, November 27, 2008 | 4:55 PM ET Comments144Recommend62CBC News
Canada's opposition parties said Thursday they will vote against the Conservative government's fiscal update, sparking speculation the country could face another election in the midst of a global economic crisis.

"We will vote against this plan … (It) does not address the economic slowdown," Liberal leader Stéphane Dion told reporters.

The NDP and Bloc Québécois also said they would not support the government on the changes proposed by Finance Minister Jim Flaherty if it is put to a confidence vote, which could come as soon as Friday, the CBC's Keith Boag reported from outside the House of Commons in Ottawa.

The parties assailed the government's plan to eliminate the $30 million in public subsidies all political parties receive, saying Stephen Harper's Conservatives were more interested in playing politics than protecting Canada's threatened economy.

The subsidy cut is one of the key elements of the fiscal update that Finance Minister Jim Flaherty announced in Ottawa on Thursday afternoon as a response to the global financial crisis.

More to come

I think the opposition parties have allot more to loose by not fighting than by going into an election.  And I don't think the GG will allow the NDP/Liberals to assume the mantel of the government.


Who else is geared for an election?

 

[ARMY_101]

So, instead of supporting a bill worth $30 Million that will help minimize Canada's debt, they'd rather spend another $200+ Million on another election?  Isn't that a bit backwards?

 

[Snafu-Bar]

Time to push a new piece of legislation through prohibiting defeatist oppositions to one re-election per millenium. Mulligan has been used...  

 

[Yrys]

I could say : ''%?&$%?#$%" as I live in Québec and
we're in another provincial election.
In another as the last one was 20007 !

And we got cityes election in November 2009.
And schools boards elections soon, I don't want to know when !!!

I'll just try not to lessen to anymore talk of that  !

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/11/26/update-subsidy.html?ref=rss&loomia_si=t0:a16:g12:r1:c0.587013:b19862881

Flaherty to axe subsidies to political parties in fiscal update: sources
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 | 11:13 PM ET Comments1113Recommend256CBC News
Finance Minister Jim Flaherty is set to deliver a fiscal update Thursday in Ottawa. (Frank Gunn/Canadian Presss)
The Conservatives are poised to eliminate the public subsidies that Canada's five major political parties receive, a move that would save $30 million a year but could cripple the opposition.

Sources told CBC News and other media outlets Wednesday that the subsidy cut is one of the key elements of the fiscal update that Finance Minister Jim Flaherty will present Thursday in Ottawa.

Parties currently receive $1.95 for every vote they receive in a federal election, provided they win at least two per cent of the nationwide popular vote. The annual subsidy is used to pay for staff and expenses.

On the surface, it would appear Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservatives have the most to lose if subsidies were cut because they garnered the most votes in the October election. The Conservatives earned $10 million in subsidies, compared to $7.7 million for the Liberals, $4.9 million for the NDP, $2.6 million for the Bloc Québécois and $1.8 million for the Greens.

But because the Conservatives have such a strong fundraising base, their subsidy represents only 37 per cent of the party's total revenues.

By comparison, the subsidy amounts to 63 per cent of the Liberals' funding, 86 per cent of the Bloc's, 57 per cent of the NDP's and 65 per cent of the Greens'.

Ploy aimed at 'bankrupting the Liberal party'
"It's a very cynical ploy on Mr. Harper's part obviously geared toward bankrupting the Liberal party more than helping out the Canadian taxpayer," said Green Leader Elizabeth May.

Liberals said the fiscal update should focus on specific measures to help Canadians rather than on party subsidies.

"Is this really what we should be talking about, or should we be talking about the real measures that are going to help [Canadians] have a more secure job, more secure pensions and [allow their] savings to grow or at least be more secure?" Liberal MP Gerard Kennedy said.

But Vic Toews, a Conservative and president of the Treasury Board, rejected the suggestion that a subsidy cut would mostly affect the opposition.

"It would hurt us the most," said Vic Toews, although he would not officially confirm that subsidy cuts were part of the fiscal update.

A steady stream of leaks about the content of the fiscal update has been funneled to the media in recent days. The details suggest the Conservatives want to portray themselves as willing to share in Canadians' economic pain.

"I urge the member to wait until tomorrow, and we will see who wants to lead by example," House Leader Jay Hill said Wednesday in Ottawa.

Other items expected in the update:

Cuts to substantial salary increases for federally appointed judges.
Measures to rein in spending by MPs and top civil servants, such as new restrictions on travel and expenses.
Elimination or trimming of the roughly $6,500-per-MP salary increase scheduled to go into effect April 1, at a cost of $2 million.
Cancellation of Christmas bonuses for management-class civil servants and executives of Crown corporations.
Temporary relief for Canadians from mandated withdrawals from registered retirement income funds (RRIFs), a measure estimated to be worth about $135 million.
A likely concession that Canada is heading for both a recession and a deficit.
Thursday's update will not contain the multi-billion-dollar stimulus package being prepared to help Canadians weather the global financial crisis. That measure will be announced in the budget early next year.

"Tomorrow's statement, as I said to the House before, is not a mini-budget. It is an economic update," Flaherty said.

Thursday's measures — particularly the controls on MP and bureaucrat expenditures — were dismissed by opposition parties as symbolic gestures that pale compared to the responses from other nations.

"They're into the gimmicky stuff, and they're not acting quickly enough on the substantive issues that are affecting people," said Vancouver Liberal MP Ujjal Dosanjh.

Since the economic slowdown accelerated into a global crisis earlier this fall, international governments have created stimulus packages to help their economies. The U.S. has already begun spending or committed to spend $1.5 trillion US, while Britain has put up $418 billion, Germany $213 billion, Japan $275 billion and China $600 billion.

Canada has announced no new stimulus, although it injected more than $100 billion into domestic money markets to ensure banks have sufficient capitalization to continue lending to homeowners and businesses.

With files from the Canadian Press

Tendentious article,  but still, the opposition parties have WAY more to loose by giving in on this than by fighting.  I think Mr Dion learned his lesson on waiting until everything is perfect to fight. The NDP will fight it for sure but I am not sure what the bloc will do for sure.  (I think since they will getless money, they will claim it is bad for Quebec)

 

[Kirkhill]

The Conservatives earned $10 million in subsidies, compared to $7.7 million for the Liberals, $4.9 million for the NDP, $2.6 million for the Bloc Québécois and $1.8 million for the Greens.

But because the Conservatives have such a strong fundraising base, their subsidy represents only 37 per cent of the party's total revenues.

By comparison, the subsidy amounts to 63 per cent of the Liberals' funding, 86 per cent of the Bloc's, 57 per cent of the NDP's and 65 per cent of the Greens'.

With subsidies Conservatives have 27 MCAD per year to fight the next election. Minus 10 MCAD means they are still accumulating revenues at the rate of 17 MCAD.

With subsidies the Liberals are accumulating at the rate of 12 MCAD (and have a debt to carry and a leadership race to finance), while the NDP are at 8.6 MCAD, the Block at 3.0 MCAD and the Greens at 2.7 MCAD.

Collectively the subsidized opposition could outspend the unsubsidized Conservatives, if the Liberals and the NDP weren't carrying a massive debt.

In the meantime the Tories saying they would forego the subsidy and challenge the other parties to do likewise would be an interesting political gamble.

Flaherty may not HAVE to shut the other parties down - just set the stage for "who wants to lead by example"....


Also, I guess inflation has finally caught up with us - it used to be that a Million was Real Money.  Now it seems that 100 Billion doesn't make the cut.

Canada has announced no new stimulus, although it injected more than $100 billion into domestic money markets to ensure banks have sufficient capitalization to continue lending to homeowners and businesses

 

[GAP]

The opposition can't win....good move by Harper.

If Dion and the other rabble do force an election, Harper will get his majority....

 

[X Royal]

My question is why this is being proposed now knowing the most likely result? The current government has been known to push confidence votes when they think they will slip though as no one wants another election. I hope this time it won't backfire and cause another election.
But than the Governor General may also chose other options available.

 

[GAP]

Fine...if a workable coalition can be made up of Libs, dippers and BQ...they are going to want to push their individual mandates so hard they are going to make a real hash of things......let them do it.....sometimes that's the only way people learn....

 

[X Royal]

Wait & shoot.  : ???

 

[Brad Sallows]

>"We will vote against this plan … (It) does not address the economic slowdown," Liberal leader Stéphane Dion told reporters.

Utter bullshit.  The first, second, and third reason the opposition parties don't like the "plan" is their own narrow funding interest, for which they are - apparently - prepared to set aside the national interest in having government actually govern with continuity for a while, rather than incur the cost to taxpayers of another election.

As far as I'm concerned, the paper on which Dion's fancy "Sciences Po" education credential is written is neither substantial nor broad enough to remove the amount by which he figuratively beshat himself today.

As for the "economic slowdown", the last thing our economy needs is sudden and violent manoeuvring on the sheer speculation that it might offset some unforeseen and unforeseeable event in the near future.  Let's see some fire discipline from the high foreheads on matters fiscal, please: manage change instead of creating it.  As the French say, this is a good opportunity to sit down and STFU.

 

[Kirkhill]

First off - I guess I overestimated Harpers willingness to play nice....

Secondly, with respect to throwing more rocks in the pond.....until the US (and everbody else) stops throwing rocks and we get to see what effect they are having on the overall economy (Global, US (80% of our exports) and Canadian Domestic) we would be well advised to hold onto our pebbles.  Otherwise any little ripples that we can create will be swamped by the massive waves created, haphazardly, by everyone else.

Our situation is not so dire that we need to be "doing things".

Now is not the time for:

"When in trouble,
When in doubt,
Run in circles,
Scream and shout."

 

[McG]

There is also election talk that I did not expect to see again so soon:

Tory minority in jeopardy as opposition talks coalition
Unwilling to accept fiscal package, Liberals consider governing with NDP
MICHAEL VALPY , JANE TABER and DANIEL LEBLANC AND STEVEN CHASE
From Friday's Globe and Mail
November 28, 2008 at 1:30 AM EST

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081128.wfiscalparties28/BNStory/politics/home

 

[helpup]

I heard a brief mention of it on the Radio this morning.  I don't think that there will be a coalition right now.  The Libs are not set up for it.  NDP don't want it, and the Bloc..... will only if it suites them.  I do think though that they may all vote against it and that would trigger another election ( like anyone wants that).  In this instance though I can not say I blame the Opposition at all for it.  What was he thinking about tagging on the election funding formula with this.  The grand total money saved is minimal to the big scheme of things.  Yes it is smart as it will hurt other parties but come on a blind man could see how this will be perceived by the opposition and the people.  As for the rest of the complaining about the budget calls.  I think that is all it is, complaining.  Yes by divesting of Govt assets when the market is down will cost us in the long run.  It will free up some cash now and you could argue that who ever will buy it will come ahead and be able to forge ahead with job's, money ( see also taxes) and other benefits. 

Personally I am all for letting the current Govt handle the "Crisis".  The worst thing we could do right now is trigger an election creating more uncertainty in the markets.  If the Conservatives blow it and make really dumb moves they will pay for it in the future.  Yet I am also a believer that there is only so much any political group can do to affect this storm we are in

 

[OldSolduer]

I heard this yesterday afternoon and I promptly phoned the Liberal and NDP offices here and demanded they contact Ottawa and tell them they are playing politics with the average person's life. This is irrepsonsible of them and the Canadian people have to phone their MP and demand this nonsense stop.
The government, whether it be Conservative or Liberal, has very little control over the economy. This is the NDP and Liberal way of whining about the proposed total cutoff of taxpayer money to their parties.
I do not see why I  and the Canadian people have to fund a political party without my consent. Thank you Mr. Chretien. :rage:

 

[Gunnar]

Cutting government subsidies to political parties that should be supported by their members?  Say it ain't so!

Did you know that 82% of the Bloc Quebecois' funding comes from the Canadian taxpayer?  Imagine, we're funding the separatist message.  Like that makes sense.  If you're a Liberal supporter, your taxes are going to split the vote in Quebec, the traditional breadbasket of the Liberal party.  Must make you proud.

I don't happen to agree with the Liberal or NDP viewpoints, but I believe they have every right to express themselves....but why should their expression be at MY expense?  You believe it, YOU pay for it.  I'm not understanding why public funding for what is by definition a special interest group is some sort of sacred cow we cannot kill.

Smaller political parties will wither without government funding?  Well, maybe they'll wither through lack of membership...maybe only a minority of people agree with their ideology.  Why should we let them pretend they have some sort of national support?  Maybe they're minority parties because the MAJORITY of Canadians don't care enough about them to support them financially.  If that's the case, why force us to support them?  Because there is a perceived need for the Marijuana Party that all Canadians (secretly) want to finance?  (Actually, I wonder...could you use these subsidies to support "expressions of your political beliefs", i.e., more weed?  Can we form the DSF (drinkin', smokin' and fightin') Party?  I'll see you at the pub).

Does the cut to political parties have anything to do with the economy?  Probably not too much...it will have limited impact.  Still, it will save millions.  Millions.  I don't have a spare million myself.  And those millions add up, I'm told.  Soon, taxes don't need to be as high because there is LESS government.  Yes, this is an ideological point.  Personally, I believe the opposition parties are most upset about the fact that the Conservatives actually espouse conservative principles *and follow thru*.  Wow.  Imagine that.  Integrity in the face of toppling their government and losing it all.  Sounds almost like they are a group of like-minded individuals with shared beliefs.  You know, like a political party used to be.

 

[Old Sweat]

My first reaction was that there must be something in the water in Ottawa that attacks the political class. There was the case of the Carleton University Students Council and the paralysis of Ottawa city council and now this.

On reflection, and I am not devious of mind enough to delve into all of the ramifications, I suspect this will resolve itself over the weekend. First, who wants an election at this time? Darn few, if any. It would be difficult to mobilize the unpaid party workers who do much of the nuts and bolts campaigning in the ridings, and the candidates - especially the 80% who were unsuccessful - have largely run through their war chests and have yet to receive their reimbursements from Elections Canada.

Okay, then, what about a coalition? To have any guarantee of governing, it would require the support of all three opposition parties. Do you think the Liberals especially want to be linked with the Bloc? Maybe there could be an informal alliance as was the case in 1972 between the Liberals and the NDP. That only lasted until the Liberals saw the chance of a majority, went to the polls and won a majority. This was also done between the Ontario Liberals and NDP after the 1984 (?) provincial election, but with a signed agreement. True to form the Grits pulled the plug when the time was right and got their majority.

There are also some major differences in policy between the Liberals and the NDP, especially the corporate tax cuts. Neither may back down, so except for the retention of their 1.95 per head, what is in it for the NDP? Perhaps a bailout for the auto makers, but that was likely anyway from the Tories. This may be a show stopper.

Say all this could be overcome. Who would be the prime minister? None other than Stephane Dion, who is not likely to voluntarily resign, and cannot be forced from office. The party establishment may want him out, and they may try all sorts of inducements, but he could stand firm. He could also say that he is withdrawing his resignation as he has now led the party to Grit nirvana - power.

The whole thing is an unholy mess and I have no idea what is going to happen. Will someone shine the light of their brilliance on my befuddlement, please?

 

[Rifleman62]

Anything with Jane Taber's name attached is hysterics.
I agree with the CPC. I cheered yesterday when I read it. Goodbye Green Party, goodbye the Bloc. No more sucking the Canadian Taxpayer. Obama proved if you work at it you can raise the money for an election (though I am suspicious of some of the sources). I would not allow contributions via internet as it is impossible to track (see US elections).
Now, about the CBC.

 

[GAP]

Now, about the CBC.

Gee, it's a time of restraint.....why is the GOC spending taxpayers $$ duplicating what the Private Sector is already doing? Time to Cut Back!!

 

[Kilo_302]

We live in a democracy (sort of) and the Conservative Party seems hell bent on taking what we have left away. They are playing politics with the economic crisis. To artifically balance the books, they are talking about selling government assets at cut rate prices to the private sector. Maybe the GST cut has something to do with the projected deficit? It is despicable, and Canadians should be up in arms about it.