The US Presidency 2020

[brihard]

Remius,

My condolences on the loss of your family member.

I am becoming increasingly concerned about the economic impact of this. Ascribing some sort of cosmic repercussions and feeling schadenfreude is inane. Whether the folks who attended the event were irresponsible or not is not your call. If that is your mantra, insert societal ill.........

I was an early proponent of distancing, based on advice from the medical experts, and complied with all restrictions. Looking at the mortality rates, I have come to the conclusion that the cure may well be worse than the disease.

Valid concerns, but not really pertinent to the absolute gong show that was allowing a crowd like that to assemble for the nomination announcement. The mechanisms of nomination did not demand that, nor did any economic imperative. Her nomination could have been made without the political theatrics of gathering a bunch of important people together at the White House. Instead, ego compelled a course of action that further threatens political and economic security.

There are myriad valid concerns about the economic impact of public health measures. The best way to minimize the impacts of the most intrusive measures (lockdowns, business closures, etc) would be to militantly advocate and enforce the least intrusive ones- universal mask wearing, physical distancing, widespread testing, etc. Particularly for the first two, political leadership have a key role to play in setting the example. The US has seen a manifest failure of leadership on this at the federal level right from the outset, with a significant portion of America mindlessly resistant to reasonable and important public health measures as a result.

The president has established and revels in a cult of personality. He has chosen to fail to leverage that to save lives and curb economic harm in a public health emergency.

 

[Weinie]

The issue isn’t even about shutting the economy down.  Early on we didn’t know enough about this thing.  We know enough now that masks actually work to keep this thing contained. 

Wear a mask, keep the economy going. Keep your distance, keep the economy going.

Two very simple things.  Even if you don’t believe in it.  It is so simple. 

But some people choose to ignore it and THEY are the ones ruining it all for everyone else.

Now the administration is paying the price for playing politics with two very simple things that could have prevented all of this.

No.

Your fallacy is belied by simple math. Keep your distance, keep the economy going.

OK. Bars now have to be three times bigger to be safe under your criteria. Restaurants same. Sports venues same. Schools. Hospitals. Airports. Same with every enterprise in the country. So simply from a physics models you have impacted basically everything. Now ancillary heating, building, electrical costs all skyrocket. All that gets passed on to the consumer. Good luck buying anything in the future.

Or lets look at the obverse (your model). 1/3 less people allowed in in every venue I described above.

Businesses crash. Most businesses are built on a 10-15% profit margin, built up over pre-covid levels of revenue. Now, they may make 3 - 5% (or less) For many, that will be less than subsistence. They will close. Less employment. Less employment = less income distribution leads to decreased tax base, higher unemployment, higher socioeconomic problems (bankruptcies, depression, suicide, domestic abuse, mental illness). But our enlightened populace and our Charter demands that we have a system in place to deal with that. Eventually, we will run out of surgeons, only to discover that it was just a scratch.

 

[Remius]

No.

Your fallacy is belied by simple math. Keep your distance, keep the economy going.

OK. Bars now have to be three times bigger to be safe under your criteria. Restaurants same. Sports venues same. Schools. Hospitals. Airports. Same with every enterprise in the country. So simply from a physics models you have impacted basically everything. Now ancillary heating, building, electrical costs all skyrocket. All that gets passed on to the consumer. Good luck buying anything in the future.

Or lets look at the obverse (your model). 1/3 less people allowed in in every venue I described above.

Businesses crash. Most businesses are built on a 10-15% profit margin, built up over pre-covid levels of revenue. Now, they may make 3 - 5% (or less) For many, that will be less than subsistence. They will close. Less employment. Less employment = less income distribution leads to decreased tax base, higher unemployment, higher socioeconomic problems (bankruptcies, depression, suicide, domestic abuse, mental illness). But our enlightened populace and our Charter demands that we have a system in place to deal with that. Eventually, we will run out of surgeons, only to discover that it was just a scratch.

Two idiots in ottawa single handedly shut down Elgin street because they thought the rules didn’t apply to them.

THEY ruined it for those businesses and everyone else.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/elgin-street-bar-owner-says-two-irresponsible-drinkers-shut-down-five-establishments

Get it?  They didn’t. 

Stop. Being. Stupid. (Not you weenie.)  Just the Covidiots that can’t follow easy direction that can actually allow our economy to reopen, continue etc.

 

[Weinie]

Two idiots in ottawa single handedly shut down Elgin street because they thought the rules didn’t apply to them.

THEY ruined it for those businesses and everyone else.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/elgin-street-bar-owner-says-two-irresponsible-drinkers-shut-down-five-establishments

Get it?  They didn’t. 

Stop. Being. Stupid. (Not you weenie.)  Just the Covidiots that can’t follow easy direction that can actually allow our economy to reopen, continue etc.

That is my point.

If your two described above idiots can shut down business, then we are are in a perilous situation economically.

No deaths have been ascribed to the two idiots, no long term health care costs, no broad spread......................but ..........

5 bars shut down, unknown numbers of employees impacted, owners on the brink.

Some people will always do stupid things. Overreacting to it is bad as well. It gets attention and oftentimes results in political policy, not because it makes sense but because it quiets the baying mob.

 

[mariomike]

The president has established and revels in a cult of personality.

I don't understand cults. But, found this article of interest,
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/inside-the-cult-of-trump-his-rallies-are-church-and-he-is-the-gospel

 

[Donald H]

That is my point.

If your two described above idiots can shut down business, then we are are in a perilous situation economically.

No deaths have been ascribed to the two idiots, no long term health care costs, no broad spread......................but ..........

5 bars shut down, unknown numbers of employees impacted, owners on the brink.

Some people will always do stupid things. Overreacting to it is bad as well. It gets attention and oftentimes results in political policy, not because it makes sense but because it quiets the baying mob.

Nobody says the economy isn't important but Covid-19 needs to be dealt with first. The US is in the midst of learning that lesson now as their infection rate continues and the deaths stay at around 1000 Americans a day. And we aren't even into the fall yet where a new spike in the virus could raise their death rate to 400,000 by year's end.

And as for idiiots? You'll find an abundance of that sort a lot more easily in the US where they listened to Trump and opened up businesses too early and recknessly.

cheers.

 

[mariomike]

Another one,

White House aide Nick Luna, who serves as a personal attendant to Trump, has tested positive for coronavirus, sources say.
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1312590435903246337

26 and counting...

+ Donald Trump
+ Melania Trump
+ Hope Hicks
+ Kellyanne Conway
+ Sen. Ron Johnson
+ Sen. Mike Lee
+ Sen. Thom Tillis
+ Ronna McDaniel, RNC chair
+ Bill Stepien, campaign mngr
+ Notre Dame Pres. Jenkins
+ 3 White House reporters
+ 11 staffers from debate
+ Chris Christie


I wonder if any Secret Service members have tested +?

 

[Remius]

That is my point.

If your two described above idiots can shut down business, then we are are in a perilous situation economically.

No deaths have been ascribed to the two idiots, no long term health care costs, no broad spread......................but ..........

5 bars shut down, unknown numbers of employees impacted, owners on the brink.

Some people will always do stupid things. Overreacting to it is bad as well. It gets attention and oftentimes results in political policy, not because it makes sense but because it quiets the baying mob.

To be honest I don’t know what your point is.  Truly.

The President and his crew did something stupid for political reasons and now the whole of the US is in a worse crisis than it already was because they couldn’t follow simple guidelines.  The stock market crashed literally because he didn’t wear a mask (and actively mocked it) or practice social distancing at a completely unnecessary event that some of the best minds in the world have been warning against for months.

I haven’t once stated we need to shut down the whole economy or whatever you think I said (which I didn’t) I mentioned masks and social distancing as being effective ways of stopping the spread.  Two easy things.  I get that getting creative to manage that can be hard for some but people need to stop being stupid and making it worse by being snowflakes And Karens about wearing a mask or standing six feet from someone.

And yes.  This virus has shown exactly how fragile our economy is.  It amazes me that some people haven’t clued in into the fact that the virus and the economy are linked right now.  If we want the economy back on track we also have to deal with the virus. It’s not about ignoring one over the other.

 

[Donald H]

Another one,

26 and counting...

I wonder if any Secret Service members have tested +?

Dozens have and likely a lot more have been covered up.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/02/politics/secret-service-outbreak-coronavirus-training-center/index.html
One example!

Overall Trump has walked his country right into a losing strategy on Covid-19 and if the fall spike in cases arrives then he's going to be looking pretty pathetic if he has to start promoting precautionary measures.

It's about time to start telling it like it is don't you think?

:cheers:

 

[brihard]

Another one,

26 and counting...

+ Donald Trump
+ Melania Trump
+ Hope Hicks
+ Kellyanne Conway
+ Sen. Ron Johnson
+ Sen. Mike Lee
+ Sen. Thom Tillis
+ Ronna McDaniel, RNC chair
+ Bill Stepien, campaign mngr
+ Notre Dame Pres. Jenkins
+ 3 White House reporters
+ 11 staffers from debate
+ Chris Christie


I wonder if any Secret Service members have tested +?

Quite likely some have been infected in this particular event. I’ve seen the proximity that protective police generally keep to their protectees, and they spend a lot of time in vehicles with them. They also have a lot of close contact with each other within their teams.

At this point I’m not really sure that a wildfire spread throughout the senior executive, the legislature and their aides and functionaries can be prevented other than by keeping them all isolated from each other for a couple straight weeks. There’s already a critical mass of infections within the Republican establishment.

 

[Weinie]

Nobody says the economy isn't important but Covid-19 needs to be dealt with first. The US is in the midst of learning that lesson now as their infection rate continues and the deaths stay at around 1000 Americans a day. And we aren't even into the fall yet where a new spike in the virus could raise their death rate to 400,000 by year's end.

And as for idiiots? You'll find an abundance of that sort a lot more easily in the US where they listened to Trump and opened up businesses too early and recknessly.

cheers.

If your economy is destroyed you have no capacity to deal with covid-19/20/21,let alone anything else.

Health systems cost money. Research costs money. VACCINES cost money.

Governments get money from business and taxpayers. There is no magic elixir that makes it otherwise.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Seems like an elitist, self-important attitude bite them. I seen our senior management toss procedures and safeguards aside when it was inconvenient. Tis a learning moment I suspect. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Seems like an elitist, self-important attitude bite them. I seen our senior management toss procedures and safeguards aside when it was inconvenient. Tis a learning moment I suspect.

One hopes ...

 

[OceanBonfire]

He and the staff knew he was exposed to the virus. Absolutely irresponsible and complete disregard of others' lives:

Trump took photos, met with donors despite knowing he'd been exposed to COVID-19

U.S. President Donald Trump's big-dollar fundraiser at his New Jersey golf club went on as planned Thursday night despite the President and staff knowing he had been exposed to coronavirus.

...

An hour and a half before the fundraiser, some senior staff and the president were informed Hope Hicks had tested positive for coronavirus, White House chief of staff Mark Meadows told reporters on Friday.

The decision was made to still hold the fundraiser despite Trump's exposure; attendees say they were not notified the president had been exposed to COVID-19.

...


https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/trump-took-photos-met-with-donors-despite-knowing-he-d-been-exposed-to-covid-19-1.5131819

-----------

Seems like an elitist, self-important attitude bite them. I seen our senior management toss procedures and safeguards aside when it was inconvenient. Tis a learning moment I suspect.

Nope:

...

Even in the hours after the president's diagnosis, senior White House staff, including chief of staff Mark Meadows and economic adviser Larry Kudlow, walked around the White House complex without wearing masks. The White House, even now, says the face coverings are a matter of "personal choice" for most staffers.

...

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-donald-trump-public-health-health-1e12c6e356b950d4521517452b54de80

 

[Remius]

White House press secretary Kaleigh Mcenany tested positive for COVID.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/05/trump-press-secretary-kayleigh-mcenany-tests-positive-for-coronavirus.html

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Listening to his press conference, he speaks of "learning a great deal about Covid" My guess is he is going to throw something into his election promises that is Covid related based on his experience, what he saw. What it will be, I have no idea.

 

[OceanBonfire]

And he plays it as if we can easily beat the virus:

...

Trump himself made a point of sounding confident. He tweeted, "I will be leaving the great Walter Reed Medical Center today at 6:30 P.M. Feeling really good! Don't be afraid of Covid. Don't let it dominate your life. ... I feel better than I did 20 years ago!"

...

Trump's expected discharge raised new questions about how the administration was going to protect other officials from a disease that remains rampant in the president's body, and came as the scale of the outbreak at the White House itself is still being uncovered. Press secretary Kayleigh McEnany announced she had tested positive for the virus Monday morning and was entering quarantine.

Conley repeatedly declined to share results of medical scans of Trump's lungs, saying he was not at liberty to discuss the information because Trump did not waive doctor-patient confidentiality on the subject. COVID-19 has been known to cause significant damage to the lungs of some patients. Conley also declined to share the date of Trump's most recent negative test for the virus - a critical data point for contact tracing and understanding where Trump was in the course of the disease.

Trump's nonchalant message about not fearing the virus comes as his own administration has encouraged Americans to be very careful and take precautions to avoid contracting and spreading the disease as cases continue to spike across the country. For more than eight months, Trump's efforts to play down the threat of the virus in hopes of propping up the economy ahead of the election have drawn bipartisan criticism.

Only a day earlier, Trump suggested he had finally grasped the true nature of the virus, saying in a video, "I get it."

On Sunday afternoon, Trump briefly ventured out of the hospital while contagious to salute cheering supporters by motorcade - an outing that disregarded precautions meant to contain the virus.

White House officials said Trump was anxious to be released after three nights at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, where doctors revealed on Sunday that his blood oxygen level had dropped suddenly twice in recent days and that they gave him a steroid typically only recommended for the very sick.

Trump's experience with the disease has been dramatically different from most Americans, who do not have access to the same kind of monitoring and care. While most must cope with their symptoms - and fear of whether they'll take a turn for the worse - at home and alone, Trump has been staying in the presidential suite of one of the nation's best hospitals and has been given experimental drugs not readily available to the public. He returns to the White House where there is a team of doctors on call with 24-hour monitoring.


https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-archive-d39bd670e8a280b6283abcdfc91d4794

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-trump/dont-be-afraid-of-virus-trump-says-as-he-prepares-to-leave-hospital-idUSKBN26Q0CS

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-covid-walter-reed-white-house-watch-live-stream-today-2020-10-05/

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/presidents-medicine-doctors-treating-donald-trump/story?id=73423761

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Anyone surprised the POTUS gets the best and most through medical care? Let's face no matter who is the POTUS, they are going to get that level of care.

 

[Remius]

Anyone surprised the POTUS gets the best and most through medical care? Let's face no matter who is the POTUS, they are going to get that level of care.

And he should.  No one should be under the illusion they will get the same.

 

[Remius]

Not very shocking that a politician will stage photos.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-coronavirus-photo-op-staged-walter-reed-b778464.html