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The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

Quirky

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Why don't you like the Grippen?

The real question is what’s there TO like? Our F-18s are just as capable. That’s not a good thing. The gripen lives in a fantasy world of promised capabilities, they are so good their supporters keep it a secret! It’s a disgustingly overrated, underperforming turd that Sweden doesn’t even want.

I'm telling you right now....

If Trudeau can negotiate a deal which results in i) jobs in Eastern Canada where seats are contested, and ii) Boeing ensuring the contract is somehow carbon-neutral, I think he would jump at the opportunity. I think the Liberal Party is desperate to try to change the page from the WE Charity scandal and Vaccine Procurement issues, and a story like that would most certainly help.

I don’t know how you can argue that a fighter jet is carbon neutral, dumping carbon into the upper atmosphere is as bad as it gets. How does Boeing set up shop in Eastern Canada and what part of the F-15 do they build?
 

NavyShooter

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They contract production with Irving shipyards, use the 'delay' between the AOPS completion and the CSC commencement to run a bunch of them through their assembly hall, (note, open box at one end, pull wings and fuselage out, show pictures of said wings being bolted on and call it 'assembly' and 'Made in Canada' - tell everyone that Irving is planting 5 billion trees this year to offset the carbon, and they call it a win.

Votes from Eastern Canada secured for a decade.
 

dimsum

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They contract production with Irving shipyards, use the 'delay' between the AOPS completion and the CSC commencement to run a bunch of them through their assembly hall, (note, open box at one end, pull wings and fuselage out, show pictures of said wings being bolted on and call it 'assembly' and 'Made in Canada' - tell everyone that Irving is planting 5 billion trees this year to offset the carbon, and they call it a win.

Votes from Eastern Canada secured for a decade.
Imagine the uproar from Canadian aviation companies when a shipyard gets any part of an aircraft contract.

To be honest, I'm not even sure shipyards (or any other heavy industry) can do that. I'm not sure how similar the qualification standards (like ISO, etc) are between those industries.
 

Good2Golf

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Imagine the uproar from Canadian aviation companies when a shipyard gets any part of an aircraft contract.

To be honest, I'm not even sure shipyards (or any other heavy industry) can do that. I'm not sure how similar the qualification standards (like ISO, etc) are between those industries.
Sub-contract to IMP.

I’d say I’m jesting, but a large part of me wouldn’t be surprised if that actually came to pass. 😕
 

dapaterson

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Gripen is already partnered with IMP.

So the good news is that we wouldn't have to worry about infrastructure being the long pole in the tent for capability delivery.
 

Good2Golf

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Gripen is already partnered with IMP.

So the good news is that we wouldn't have to worry about infrastructure being the long pole in the tent for capability delivery.
That is the prime IMP you’re referring to, not the IMP sub to Irving. 😉
 

Colin Parkinson

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In Canada, it would not surprise me that a shipyard gets the contract to assemble new fighter here.....
 

Cdn Blackshirt

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I don’t know how you can argue that a fighter jet is carbon neutral, dumping carbon into the upper atmosphere is as bad as it gets. How does Boeing set up shop in Eastern Canada and what part of the F-15 do they build?

You're assuming the Liberal Party is looking to be accurate in its claims? I have no such expectations. In both cases they just need enough plausibility to be marketable as the sheep won't fact check it anyway.
 

OldSolduer

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Finish line is in sight finally, let's hope we make it
I think the finish line is...drum roll please.....


After much consultation - decades- the GoC has decided not to decide on a new fighter. You see COVID has eaten up all the money and well - sorry. Here's some new blue duct tape to fix your old ones.
 

MTShaw

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I think the finish line is...drum roll please.....


After much consultation - decades- the GoC has decided not to decide on a new fighter. You see COVID has eaten up all the money and well - sorry. Here's some new blue duct tape to fix your old ones.
Just an FYI, my MP is a Liberal. I asked her, amongst many other question (and from a good distance) about military procurement, she said they are going to buy new planes because they are simply out of time.

Also, when I spoke to Minister Sajjan very briefly last fall, I asked him if they were still committed to the 1.8% of GDP Defense spending indicated during the first Trudeau government and he said yes.
 

MilEME09

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Just an FYI, my MP is a Liberal. I asked her, amongst many other question (and from a good distance) about military procurement, she said they are going to buy new planes because they are simply out of time.

Also, when I spoke to Minister Sajjan very briefly last fall, I asked him if they were still committed to the 1.8% of GDP Defense spending indicated during the first Trudeau government and he said yes.
If they were smart, using defense spending, especially our infrastructure deficit to create jobs would boost the economy.
 

YZT580

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but it will influence their choice. Whichever airframe provides the most visible bang for the buck (translate that as jobs here in Canada) will become the winner
 

Weinie

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but it will influence their choice. Whichever airframe provides the most visible bang for the buck (translate that as jobs here in Canada) will become the winner
I fear that this was always the leading option.
 

Quirky

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canadas NGF requirements in order:

Economic offsets;
Cost;
Cool factor and if the media likes it;
Capability.



Finish line is in sight finally, let's hope we make it

Once the F-35 is chosen, the government (Cons and Libs), would have spent 11 years to come full circle from 2011. In addition, the Libs wasted $1.4b for CF-18 and Aussie Hornet upgrades and another 23 'capability gap' airframes*.

*How many are actually flying in squadrons at this point?
 

MTShaw

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If they were smart, using defense spending, especially our infrastructure deficit to create jobs would boost the economy.
And thus, we circle back, inexorably, back to the Gripen. If we start building fighters in Canada, we will never be able to stop. The pattern will change when we join with Saab/Sweden, BAE/Britain and Leonardo/Italy for the Tempest program.
 

MilEME09

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And thus, we circle back, inexorably, back to the Gripen. If we start building fighters in Canada, we will never be able to stop. The pattern will change when we join with Saab/Sweden, BAE/Britain and Leonardo/Italy for the Tempest program.
Oh but will we write in our intent to buy the tempest only to back out when it's time to put our money where our mouth is?
 

MTShaw

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Oh but will we write in our intent to buy the tempest only to back out when it's time to put our money where our mouth is?
That may be the case. But HMG would have to shutdown an industry. Given our vaccine problems, any government is capable of doing just that.
 

Loachman

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Generation kill: In praise of America’s F-35 fighter
Proponents say two recent exercises demonstrate the warplane’s many capabilities are worth every penny
by Dave Makichuk April 17, 2021

Lockheed Martin’s controversial F-35 Lightning II stealth jet fighter has its detractors and proponents.

Having earned the nicknames the “trillion-dollar mistake” and “the flying super-computer,” among others, it has taken a beating from critics who point to its multitude of teething problems (some of which continue today), soaring costs and its inability to do anything really well.

My buddy and fellow pilot John Desramaux (aviation expert and Second World War historian from Ontario) and I often discuss (a.k.a. argue), over whether Canada should spend billions on the advanced, multi-role F-35, or just add more F/A-18s to its aging fleet of fighter jets.

As far as John is concerned, Canada should “go fifth generation, or go home.”

But is there any evidence - solid evidence - that backs that up?

More at link.
 
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